WBCCI - One Man's Negative Opinion

[ScrapIrony-2]

Ya know, what Wally was doing, and what's going on now are two wholly different worlds...camp, explore, visit with new and old friends, and PAY YER OWN WAY...not a hard concept...but I'm tired of subsidizing other folks because their beret is cleaner or their vest is tighter...oh, I've got a name badge, somewhere, and I've even been known to occasionally wear it...but you'll probably get to know me as the flamingo guy who wears Hawaiian shirts, and is proud of being the first Trailer Trash Queen...too much serious is too much...think I'll go build a small fire and forget this stuff...mike

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by JK3500

The fact that membership is declining is evidence that the WBCC is not meeting the needs or desires of new or prospective members. It is the responsibility of the CLUB LEADERSHIP to meet those needs, not the new or prospective member.

No disagreement so far. The leadership is not addressing the problems. Unfortunately, that's life in the big city. The question is, what are we going to do about it? The answers seem to fall into two general categories:

1. Drop out and then everlastingly bitch about it. Witness this thread.

2. Do what we can.

Think of it as a restoration project. Many of us see value in an old and somewhat decrepit organization, just as we saw value in an old and somewhat decrepit Airstream. Both projects take time, hard work, patience, and the ability to recover from unexpected setbacks. Both can succeed.

Cheers,
Nuvi

[markdoane]

I think JK in #179 has pegged the problem pretty clearly. If the WBCCI wants to continue as a going concern they need to invest a few of their diminishing bucks with an organizational consultant to figure out how to move ahead.

It's no different than any corporation that has declining sales because the product has gotten a little stale.

Would you buy WBCCI stock?

[Ed Emerick]

Boy this has been fun reading this AGAIN!

Here's the deal, go make your camping event how you want it. Go do it, don't worry about what the "elders" are doing to the WBCCI. They can't take my trailer(s) away from me or stop me from using them as I see fit. So after a long time worrying about this and the club, I no longer do. I'm going to use my membership as best I can within the structure the WBCCI provides.

There will always be a WBCCI, some how some place. If the club is run into the ground, something will come from the ashes. What I can do as a member is host rallies and attend functions that I see as fun. Support what I can, change what I can and let the other do as they see fit. I'm never (nor most of us) going to be in a position that will change the way the IBT determines how the club will be run. It just ain't happenen!

So go out travel, camp, meet new people with your Airstreams. Be a member of the WBCCI or not (and by not you are missing out on some cool things available) but for the love of GOD give this topic a break already!

Don't you people have an Airstream to be out in, move away from the keyboard and go get some fresh air....................

[Lothlorian]

Wow! I have never seen a topic so kicked around in my whole life. I have never been to a rally and probably will never have the opportunity because of my schedule. All my time is spent getting to one place or just going to the local state park for some quick R & R.

I know nothing about the club, but when I read about Elders I think of my parents and their friends. My parents were the WW II generations which I think is the greatest generation that is on the earth. They are only going to be with us for a short time longer. I have always enjoyed listening to and spending time with the elders. I am sure they are set in their ways but they have earned it. I just think of how they have protected us through WW II, Koren War, and the Vietname war. They have my respect and appreciation.

I would think that starting get togethers with like people could evolve into a new organization if you need that type of comradery with friends. I would love to have the time to camp with like minded people who share the same interests. I am sure I could do that without having to join a club, or trash a club. Life is to short, enjoy yourself. You are all good people.

Brian

[hampstead38]

If no one cared about the WBCCI and its future, there wouldn't be long threads. Everyone here has a stake--more or less--in the future of Airstream. Even those of us who own vintage trailers and really need zero support from Jackson have an interest in "the brand." Frankly, I don't want to own a trailer that "was an Airstream before Airstream sucked."

It's frustrating to watch Thor mismanage the brand. It's frustrating to watch the corporate groupthink that decimated the American auto industry eroding the Airstream tradition of excellence. Even if the WBCCI were radically transformed, I'm not sure it could dent the Thor/Airstream monolith... but it would be in the best position to make an effort.

This is not mindless "bitching," Nuvi. This is a group of dedicated, committed, passionate Airstream owners disappointed by the company and disappointed by Airstream's flagship "club." Maybe, just maybe, these reasoned, articulate and thoughtful posts will find an audience somewhere. If not, the only time I have wasted is my own. I'll avoid telling other forum members what to do with their spare time... and hope the courtesy will be returned.

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by hampstead38

This is not mindless "bitching," Nuvi.

Did I say "mindless"? Or was that a Freudian slip?

I believe the term I used was "everlasting". Look at this thread--QED.

Cheers,
Nuvi

[47WeeWind]

Originally Posted by Nuvite-F

. . . The leadership is not addressing the problems. . . . [so] [t]he question is, what are we going to do about it? . . .
Do what we can . . Think of it as a restoration project. Many of us see value in an old and somewhat decrepit organization, just as we saw value in an old and somewhat decrepit Airstream. Both projects take time, hard work, patience, and the ability to recover from unexpected setbacks. Both can succeed. Cheers, Nuvi

Hi Nuvi:

You got that right. It's ironic, but many of the newest and more successful Units in the WBCCI are trying to restore the Club back to its vintage roots and practices, to a simpler way of camping until we too can retire and go on longer caravans. Many of us undercover Marty McFlys are marching Back to the Future of the WBCCI.

[Gene]

A few more words about a reserve fund. The purpose of such funds is to earn interest and to have funds available for emergencies such as lawsuits, invest in capital goods and tide over an organization during a temporary shortfall in funds. The latter means in an organization primarily funded by dues that come in almost entirely during one part of a year, it is necessary to provide funds before dues come in. In each of the last three situations, every effort should be made to promptly refund the reserves. I spend much time working on creating and directing a reserve fund and an endowment fund for an organization and know this is how it works.

To continually draw on reserves, year after year, without making cutbacks in expenses to prevent future draws, it fiscal mismanagement. I also know from personal experience that turning around such fiscal mismanagement is very difficult. The people who made the mess become defensive and stubborn and put roadblocks in the way constantly despite the obvious fact they are weakening the organization.

Regardless of culture issues, such mismanagement is certainly good cause to throw out the leadership. It appears the organization has created an electoral process which makes that almost impossible. That is sad.

I keep reading that eventually it will get better, but when is the question. Counting on the leaders to die off is both gruesome and unreliable. The biological solution, as they call it in Cuba, has proved unreliable in changing things.

I applaud those who stick it out. I assume they have invested a lot in the organization and find it hard to let go. I've been involved in organizations that were shrinking and no one would listen and the experience was frustrating, leads to extreme rationalizations, and ultimately, I just decided to move on and spend more time camping and traveling. I sure felt better, though regretted I could not turn the organization around as much as I wanted to.

I have seen a shift in the past year or more in the posts of defenders of the WBCCI. They now state there is mismanagement. So, that is good—the problems are being recognized. Maybe this painful and difficult ongoing debate is having an effect and hopefully the "complaining" is working.

There are meaningful alternatives to the WBCCI and more are coming. A vacuum is never tolerated for long. I can't wait for the WBCCI to change to an organization I would join and I regret that for 2 reasons—(1), I want the WBCCI to succeed, and (2), I'm 69 years old and I'll die off too.

Gene

[ScrapIrony-2]

Ya know, I get really tired of losing a post after It's almost done...However, I figure it's my ineptitude...I'll try to reitertate...Gene...good post, good view...
I don't agree with all the views on this thread(or any other), and I've had my opinion moderated away, but the fact is this a GREAT venue of exchange...this is from a guy who used to have a 'brick' cell phone...I'm making progress...Gene, we're all in the process of dying(or dieing)...every morning I wake up on the topside of the grass is better than the alternative, but a cup of coffee helps cement the deal...waiting for existing executives to pass on is as useful as watching paint dry...besides, most really don't want to die, and as long as they are allowed to get away with supplemented behavior, why expect change? We have to act, or put up with what we are dealing with...having said that, I really just want to go camping with my friends, and make new ones...the organizational stuff is why I won't seek office, again, as most of it seems so pointless...requires time spent doing things I retired and went camping for to get away from in the first place...give me another plastic flamingo, and I'm good...mike

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Nuvite-F

...The question is, what are we going to do about it?

1. Drop out and then everlastingly bitch about it. Witness this thread...

Originally Posted by Nuvite-F

...I believe the term I used was "everlasting". Look at this thread--QED....

whether the term is mindless OR everlasting...

u r wRoNg on both counts.
__________________

1. chief hasn't dropped out yEt, he's still a paid fella in the club.

2. MOST of the MINDFULL BITCHING in the OLDer threads on the club shortcomings, is POSTED by

3. dues PAYING members.

4. AS those folks reach the inevitable decision to STOP paying for IBT nitwits 2 waste money and goodwill.

5. and once those PAYING members finally get tired oh hearing the non answer "join in un fix it yous own nag self"

6. MOST of those FORMER paying members STOP POSTING about the wb'...

7. and stop complaining about the club issue, mindless or everlasting.

8. i can point out 100s of caring concerned folks on these forums that used to post HOPING to help drive change.

9. who have simply MOVED ON.

10. and we NO longer worry or bitch or even think much about the wb' as an organization or aspect of our 'streaming.

11. see the simple act of NOT RENEWING or PAYING to support a drowning enterprise FREEs us up from this mess.
_________________

so while i don't expect (or even want) 2 change your thinking nuvi'...

i would suggest U go back and look at the wb' threads,

much LESS interest and many fewer posts or reads on ANY wb' topic these daze.

so while the wb' is stuck and sinking in history, tradition and hanging on to decrepit wayz,

please WAVE as the loud, drunken bus carrying nekked OLDnYOUNG streamers to better things, passes by...

QEF

cheers
2air'

and it seems 'dropping out' is a long held tradition amoung MEMBERS of the infamous club...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...rge-24155.html

but again we (the endless complainers) have moved on...

[hampstead38]

Did I say "mindless"? Or was that a Freudian slip?

Do take note of the quotation marks, Nuvi. If I meant to attribute the word mindless to you, it would have been written as "mindless bitching" rather than "mindless 'bitching.'" Minima maxima sunt.

Gene is right... again. To draw down on reserves rather than address a structural deficit is mismanagement. Misfeasance at best; malfeasance at worst. As best I can tell, the closest thing to a gameplan is to keep giving the WBCCI money while waiting for the older generation of members to pass on. Here's the rub... what's to say the next generation of WBCCI leaders will not do exactly what this generation has done? Power, in even very small measures, has a odd way of changing one's perspective. It's funny how sometimes the most vocal critics of a system can become ardent proponents... once they become its beneficiaries.

Since we are brushing up on our Latin today (much, I am certain, to the delight of my old Jesuit instructors), "Corruptisima re publica plurimae leges." This is an adage the WBCCI with its Blue Book would do well to consider, that is when the "next generation" of leaders take office.

[Gene]

Hampstead, I had 2 years of Latin in HS and you are bringing old pain back. And, I don't have a clue what either quote means.

Gene

[2airishuman]

typically when the posts shift to quotn' latn',

the thread in question (and this one is definitely questionable) is already circln the toilet bowl.

with the scrubbing bubbles mumblin' in latn' close behind.

however latin might just be exactly ON TOPIC this time.

a dead language, essentially reserved for secret ritual chants.

or posts 1 step past the widdy repartee'...

maybe ALL threads on the wb' could be written in latn'...

or backwards with invisible ink...

cheers
2air'

[Gene]

Well some of us tried to kill it some time ago with hijacking, off topic posts and general insanity, but like the Hydra, it wouldn't die. Where's Hercules when we need him?

Lernaean Hydra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe some Greek mythology will help.

Gene

[warbler5]

Originally Posted by ScrapIrony-2

Ya know, what Wally was doing, and what's going on now are two wholly different worlds...camp, explore, visit with new and old friends, and PAY YER OWN WAY...not a hard concept...but I'm tired of subsidizing other folks because their beret is cleaner or their vest is tighter...oh, I've got a name badge, somewhere, and I've even been known to occasionally wear it...but you'll probably get to know me as the flamingo guy who wears Hawaiian shirts, and is proud of being the first Trailer Trash Queen...too much serious is too much...think I'll go build a small fire and forget this stuff...mike

Mike, your Airstream is known as the "flamingo magnet" to me and mine! I totally agree with you....why ARE we subsidizing folks we will likely never meet? I would rather have $1 (current FCU unit dues) go to WBCCI and let the unit have the $55! At least you would have some inkling of how your dues are being spent, and you can ask the unit Prez, face to face, if you are concerned about it.

As my former boss summed it up once, "progress follows the hearse." I think that will likely be WBCCI's fate.

[JimGolden]

I almost hesitate to post here, as this thread has gone way off track. But here it is:

I am currently reading "Trailer Travel, Here and Abroad" by Wally Byam. In this book, Wally spells out exactly why the WBCCI is the way it is. I recommend that ALL of you get this book and read it.

Here's the deal:
On his first Caravan, to Central America in 1951, it was an utter DISASTER! Wally and a couple of his customers/buddies decided to go on this trip. The buddies talked to their buddies and.....it wound up being 63 trailers starting out. They encountered all manner of hardship, and everything that could go wrong, went wrong. They broke axles. They broke hitches. They broke cars. Tempers flared. People hated each other. They made it halfway down, and Wally told them it was going to get worse. A third of them sold their coaches and flew home at that point. They soldiered on. In the end, about 22 of the original 63 made it.

PeeWee, were you on this one?

Wally swore he'd never do it again. But he did. But this time, he got more organized. And it went better. And on the next one, he was more organized yet. And so it went, until finally, they were pretty much military in the way in which they operated. But it WORKED!

So, what does that mean here? It means that WBCCI, with all the rules and regs, was meant for people who actually CARAVAN. If you're just going to the lake that's 50 miles down the road, then there is no reason under the sun to join the WBCCI. All the rules, regs, and baloney, are for real honest to goodness CARAVANS that are actually GOING SOMEWHERE! If you don't want to form a group and go to South America, if you only want to go to your local campground, then why joint at all? Wally WENT places and DID things. He did it in LARGE groups, and that is why he put in place all the rules and regs. On his first caravan, he did not have all that baloney, and it was a nightmare.

So to me, it's real simple: If I want to get a group together and go from Capetown to Cairo, then maybe WBCCI is the way to go. It WAS, many years ago. Maybe now, it is not. I don't know. My 84 year old grandpa just let his long standing membership go because he said "It's not fun anymore." But, he never took his Airstream to South America. He never took his to Canada, or Cuba, or Guatemala, or Africa. So here's the deal: If you're just a casual tourist out to bippity bop in your shiny silver tube around the U.S., then of what use is the WBCCI at all? Wally went all over the world, and that is why he had the rules and regs. Perhaps the organization has morphed into something else. But the book very clearly explains what happened in the 1950's. Wally took on the job of leading a large group, against his better judgement, survived it, swore he'd never do it again, but then did do it again but with an increasingly strict set of guidelines to make it all work.

It's fine to be happy go lucky when I just meet my buddy at the campground in PA. But I really do need more rigid guidance if I'm traveling enmasse to Brasil. That is where WBCCI shined. I see NO reason to have a bunch of rigid baloney if you're just hooking up a weekend here and there at the local campground to roast some hot dogs. BUT, that is not what WBCCI was originally about. SO, if you WBCCI's mission has changed, then perhaps it's pomp and circumstance for the occasional weekend hotdog roast is justified. But that is not what Wally originally created.

It's all in the book. Just read it.

I sold my '77 Excella which had both Sag and Separation. Got an Avion now, so I'm out of the running all the way around. I respect the HECK out of Wally Byam! Like many on here, I thought he was just a shrewd salesman until I read his book. The guy was for real. But I fear that what he created has strayed a lot from the original intent.

By the way , Wally said that a trailer in the 24 to 26 foot range was about perfect for serious traveling. You can go to 30 foot, and there will be one time in a hundred that you'll get stuck that the shorter guys won't, but beyond that is too big.

My current rig is a 34' triple axle. I'd like to supplement it with a shorter tandem axle Airstream. I'm looking. Still have my eye on my grandpa's '58 Traveler 17 footer. Wally said they (the 16 to 18 footers) were the true go anywhere machines. But they did get a little tight.

Best of luck to you all,

[hampstead38]

Worse than hydrae... nuns with yardsticks. Sorry, Gene, for any flashbacks.

If this thread was a disussion of the Kiwanis or the Jaycees or the Optimists, I wouldn't have much interest. Maybe the fate of the WBCCI doesn't matter much in the larger scheme of things. On the other, I don't want to underestimate the the "form-a-committee-and-send-a-survey" mentality of the Thor/Airstream mothership.

The genius of Wally Byam was to use the club, the caravans, red numbers and berets as grassroots marketing. And there was a time when that approach was successful. When we bought out vintage Airstream, we learned that my wife's grandmother always wanted an Airstream. We found out my grandmother always wanted an Airstream. Not lost on me is the fact my wife's grandmother is dead and my grandmother just turned 87. The "we always wanted an Airstream" demographic dates back to before the Baby Boom.

Maybe a vibrant, dynamic WBCCI wouldn't be enough to restore the luster of the Airstream brand... but it wouldn't hurt. It also might convince Thor/Airstream to build something other than a same old box with an aluminum skin.

[Chief]

Originally Posted by warbler5

Mike, your Airstream is known as the "flamingo magnet" to me and mine! I totally agree with you....why ARE we subsidizing folks we will likely never meet? I would rather have $1 (current FCU unit dues) go to WBCCI and let the unit have the $55! At least you would have some inkling of how your dues are being spent, and you can ask the unit Prez, face to face, if you are concerned about it.

As my former boss summed it up once, "progress follows the hearse." I think that will likely be WBCCI's fate.

In my initial posting to this thread, I mentioned our experience at the Regional Rally a couple of weeks ago. I was not pleased that I was being asked to pay another $75 membership fee, when we had only been members for less than six months. When this was discussed with IBT President, Tom Collier, he confirmed that we would be required to pay the full membership. Since I had just read his article in the Blue Beret concerning WBCCI's financial situation, I expected that response. But, it sure was hard to take from someone who was traveling on our dime......along with, I suspect, other IBT "important people."

This thread is becoming even more useful.....I'm learning some Latin.....four other foreign languages, but never an opportunity for Latin......thanks guys, for broadening my horizons!

Chief

[Gene]

Good post, Jim. It reminds me that others have said the IBT is run like the army by ex-military. If I wanted to join the army, I'd have done so 45 or 50 years ago, certainly not now.

Gene