Towing in the mountains

[SilverHouseDreams]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

There is no such thing out there. You can downshift and let the engine rev up but without adding in braking you will blow your engine eventualy.

I'm sorry, but you aren't doing a great job of convincing us you are a subject matter expert on the physics behind engine braking. Are you familiar with the physics behind how a gas engine and diesel engine different in fuel/air delivery?

Gasoline engines inherently control fuel AND air in order to control engine speed, thus when "throttle" is decreased so is the airflow through butterfly valves...thus it has engine braking capability by default. Diesel engines do not control airflow, they are only fuel controlled engines...which means a diesel engine requires an exhaust brake to even have any engine braking capability.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_braking

Funny you believe that a gas engine doesn't have any engine braking, somehow I drove down 8-miles of 6%+ grade without touching my brakes at all just yesterday...and my 2-litre 4-cyclinder gas burner somehow didn't blow up in the process.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by SilverHouseDreams

I'm sorry, but you aren't doing a great job of convincing us you are a subject matter expert on the physics behind engine braking. Are you familiar with the physics behind how a gas engine and diesel engine different in fuel/air delivery?

Gasoline engines inherently control fuel AND air in order to control engine speed, thus when "throttle" is decreased so is the airflow through butterfly valves...thus it has engine braking capability by default. Diesel engines do not control airflow, they are only fuel controlled engines...which means a diesel engine requires an exhaust brake to even have any engine braking capability.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_braking

Funny you believe that a gas engine doesn't have any engine braking, somehow I drove down 8-miles of 6%+ grade without touching my brakes at all just yesterday...and my 2-litre 4-cyclinder gas burner somehow didn't blow up in the process.

I spent 40 years of my life in the Civil Construction business. I operated 25 Semi Tractor trailers dump trucks. Three low boys that hauled equipment ranging in weight to 165 k pounds. And every other imaginable small pieces of equipment, service trucks, pick ups etc. Most of those 40 years I spent driving pick up trucks of all kinds. I am more than familiar with the difference between diesel and gasoline driven vehicles and equipment. I signed the checks for the maintenance and the replacement of every piece over those years.
Gasoline driven pickups have the capacity to use the engine /trans combination to slow itself down but the gas engine will not be able to hold back itself and a trailer that weighs as much or more than the PU on a steep extended decent without using the brakes. Eventually the engine will over rev.

[TG Twinkie]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

I spent 40 years of my life in the Civil Construction business. I operated 25 Semi Tractor trailers dump trucks. Three low boys that hauled equipment ranging in weight to 165 k pounds. And every other imaginable small pieces of equipment, service trucks, pick ups etc. Most of those 40 years I spent driving pick up trucks of all kinds. I am more than familiar with the difference between diesel and gasoline driven vehicles and equipment. I signed the checks for the maintenance and the replacement of every piece over those years.
Gasoline driven pickups have the capacity to use the engine /trans combination to slow itself down but the gas engine will not be able to hold back itself and a trailer that weighs as much or more than the PU on a steep extended decent without using the brakes. Eventually the engine will over rev.

Just apply the brakes long enough to keep the engine from over reving. Bring the engine RPM down 1,000 to 1,500 RPM. Then release the brakes to let things cool off. It's just that simple.
I have travelled extensively over the Rockies. Virtually every paved mountain pass in Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Utah, Oregon, Washington, Arizona and New Mexico using this method. Never had a problem.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Gasoline driven pickups have the capacity to use the engine /trans combination to slow itself down but the gas engine will not be able to hold back itself and a trailer that weighs as much or more than the PU on a steep extended decent without using the brakes. Eventually the engine will over rev.

If that happens, it is because the operator is in too high a gear and/or going too fast. User error.

[polarlyse]

I'm with FRANK. And may also loose the brakes and if / when this happens keep your eyes out for the runaway ramps. You'll be needing one. AND a clean pair of shorts.

In fact they have an interesting one on Wy 16 just west of Buffalo. It's a Norwegian design (I think) and is on a flat straightaway and is spring loaded and re-setable. It's the only one of it's kind that I've ever seen. May be the only one in the USA.

[rmkrum]

Originally Posted by polarlyse

I'm with FRANK. And may also loose the brakes and if / when this happens keep your eyes out for the runaway ramps. You'll be needing one. AND a clean pair of shorts.

----------snip--------------

Yup, also euphemistically known as "having a laundry problem" in Navy Aviation circles...usually preceded by a high "pucker factor" when the situation commences...

Or, as George Carlin put it, "First you SAY it, then you DO it..!"

[ITSNO60]

All this talk about engine brakes...no engine brakes...now I don't know what to do. I was thinking about the US Gears exhaust brake for my 9,000 lb F-350 diesel for towing around 7-8K but with all the talk about the lashup in compression and the Hensley bump I just don't know. Hardly seems worth it if I have to use the trailer brakes at the same time with the exhaust brake, I'll be leaning forward pulling the lever the whole way down! I think I'll just see how it goes, I've lived in the West all of my driving life and driven plenty of grades in many types of vehicles. Towed 8K last summer into Northern NM with no issues. I always reduce speed on the down side, slow before coming into a curve and power thru a curve rather than brake thru it on the level and the upside. That I learned ages ago in my hot rod days.

I love the idea of the exhaust brake but not sure if I will need it, or even want to use it while towing. I have a good understanding of the risks involved in a compressed lashup going down hill and this makes the exhaust brake seem like a bad idea to me.

[blkmagikca]

Brian, I went with the BD Exhaust brake. Bought it through Amazon and had a mechanic in Tucson install it. Makes a huge difference. I also bought the Torq-Loc module afterwards, but have not as yet had it installed. Plan on doing that when I'm passing through Tucson in November. This was all done to my 1999 Ram 2500HD.

[ITSNO60]

Originally Posted by blkmagikca

Brian, I went with the BD Exhaust brake. Bought it through Amazon and had a mechanic in Tucson install it. Makes a huge difference. I also bought the Torq-Loc module afterwards, but have not as yet had it installed. Plan on doing that when I'm passing through Tucson in November. This was all done to my 1999 Ram 2500HD.

Did you use Desert Diesel? He quoted me for the BD along with a programmer for the transmission. Jason at Arizona Affordable Diesel on the other hand recommends the Pac Brake.

[rowiebowie]

Whatever method you use, make sure you don't end up like the guy in this song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8I-zPmTPzM

[GCinSC2]

Harry Chapin, what a talented gifted artist.

Bananas is a favorite but we could have a thread about his ballads.

Ok with you mr tanner?

[blkmagikca]

Originally Posted by ITSNO60

Did you use Desert Diesel? He quoted me for the BD along with a programmer for the transmission. Jason at Arizona Affordable Diesel on the other hand recommends the Pac Brake.

Charlie's garage in Tucson - I think the charge to install it was $200.00