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Old 08-18-2014, 11:15 AM   #15
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Nissan Titan 5.6L vs Ford F250 diesel

I get a little better than 11 towing with my Chevy at about 60 mph, and better than 9 mpg traveling 70 plus.

Now i will admit that my daily milage without towing pretty much sucks at about 15 mpg.

If a person does the math, it takes a lot of towing at the difference between gas and diesel economy to make up six to ten thousand dollar in initial cost.
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:10 PM   #16
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The thing is you don't need to make up initial difference in cost with just improved mpg because you will get much more out of the re-sale on a diesel vs. gas.

A gas F-250 with 250,000 miles is worth next to nothing and considered shot, while a Diesel with 250,000 miles is worth 50% of new price and is considered at about 1/3 life.
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:16 PM   #17
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The thing is you don't need to make up initial difference in cost with just improved mpg because you will get much more out of the re-sale on a diesel vs. gas.

A gas F-250 with 250,000 miles is worth next to nothing and considered shot, while a Diesel with 250,000 miles is worth 50% of new price and is considered at about 1/3 life.
Not in Minnesota where they are both rust buckets relegated to snow plow duties.
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:18 PM   #18
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Not in Minnesota where they are both rust buckets relegated to snow plow duties.
Living in Colorado at 8000 feet I sometimes forget that there is such a thing as rust.
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:40 PM   #19
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I towed our FC19 with my 2013 Silverado with the 5.3 and wished it had more power in the hills
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:58 PM   #20
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Exclamation Stop lying to yourselves

Yes, this is a contentious issue (with long history), probably because most of us have spent a pretty penny on our tow vehicles (as well as our trailers) and want everyone to agree that we made the perfect choice. Human nature is like that.

Do Diesel Trucks Save You Money? Not Always...

Diesel vehicles get remarkable fuel economy, but itís sometimes not enough to make them a better value overall than their gas counterparts.

The main reason is the higher pricetag: on average a diesel is $5,045 more than a gas-powered version of the same model, according to Vincentric LLC, a research firm in Bingham Farms, Mich.

Beyond the purchase amount, diesels also end up costing a little extra to own and maintain.

An additional noteworthy point is that on a percentage basis, diesels have lower depreciation, but because they cost more to purchase, their total dollars of depreciation are higher.

In a detailed analysis comparing diesel and gas versions of the same models, Vincentric calculated the cost of ownership over five years, assuming 15,000 miles of driving annually. The company found that, in many cases, particularly with trucks and vans, the gas-powered model would end up costing owners less in the long run, despite using more fuel.

The advantage of those infrequent fill-ups might be deceptive. Buyers who choose a diesel vehicle could assume the savings on fuel will more than compensate for the other extra expenses.

But higher purchase prices and other expenses over time can outweigh the savings diesels deliver at the pump; in general, owning a diesel for five years ends up costing an average of $751 more than owning the same vehicle with a gasoline engine, according to Vincentricís calculations in its alternative fuel analysis.

But there are enough exceptions to keep anyone who wants to buy a diesel happy.


Additional Sources:
http://www.dieselforum.org/files/dmf...ort_dd2017.pdf
Cost of Ownership Study: 12 Diesels Beat Gas Counterparts - HybridCars.com
http://www.constructionfleets.com/fc...ifecycle-2.pdf
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:07 PM   #21
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I have a 2012 Armada, so I can help a bit.

Make sure the Nissan has the tow button on the center console, then it has the tow package with trans cooler.

I shall heartily disagree with the above poster that says the nissan will get 7-9. I tow a non-AS that is distinctly non-aerodynamic, and my nissan averages about 10.3 mpg. And I'm towing around CO, so there's the hills....
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:32 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by BoldAdventure View Post
Yes, this is a contentious issue (with long history), probably because most of us have spent a pretty penny on our tow vehicles (as well as our trailers) and want everyone to agree that we made the perfect choice. Human nature is like that.

Do Diesel Trucks Save You Money? Not Always...

Diesel vehicles get remarkable fuel economy, but itís sometimes not enough to make them a better value overall than their gas counterparts.

The main reason is the higher pricetag: on average a diesel is $5,045 more than a gas-powered version of the same model, according to Vincentric LLC, a research firm in Bingham Farms, Mich.

Beyond the purchase amount, diesels also end up costing a little extra to own and maintain.

An additional noteworthy point is that on a percentage basis, diesels have lower depreciation, but because they cost more to purchase, their total dollars of depreciation are higher.

In a detailed analysis comparing diesel and gas versions of the same models, Vincentric calculated the cost of ownership over five years, assuming 15,000 miles of driving annually. The company found that, in many cases, particularly with trucks and vans, the gas-powered model would end up costing owners less in the long run, despite using more fuel.

The advantage of those infrequent fill-ups might be deceptive. Buyers who choose a diesel vehicle could assume the savings on fuel will more than compensate for the other extra expenses.

But higher purchase prices and other expenses over time can outweigh the savings diesels deliver at the pump; in general, owning a diesel for five years ends up costing an average of $751 more than owning the same vehicle with a gasoline engine, according to Vincentricís calculations in its alternative fuel analysis.

But there are enough exceptions to keep anyone who wants to buy a diesel happy.


Additional Sources:
http://www.dieselforum.org/files/dmf...ort_dd2017.pdf
Cost of Ownership Study: 12 Diesels Beat Gas Counterparts - HybridCars.com
http://www.constructionfleets.com/fc...ifecycle-2.pdf
University of Michigan's Transportation Research Institute disagrees with Vincentric LLC's findings

http://www.dieselforum.org/files/dmf...ort_dd2017.pdf

Diesel vehicles save owners thousands | University of Michigan News

"The estimates of savings for three and five years of ownership vary from a low of $67 in three years to a high of $15,619 in five years, but most of the savings are in the $2,000-to-$6,000 range, which also include the extra cost that is usually added to the diesel version of a vehicle,"
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:47 PM   #23
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Owning a diesel is not what it used to be.
Cheap fuel
Reliability
Fuel mileage
Low maintance
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Old 08-18-2014, 02:58 PM   #24
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You boiled it down to the basics quite well Rcarl.

In a nutshell,,, you nailed it.

The manufacturers were so effective at cleaning up diesels that the government now requires too much of the manufacturers to the point that delivering a reliable efficient product has become too complex to accomplish.

If not for these unrealistic expectations the American diesel would be in the midst of its golden age. As it is now it was spoiled.

This is reality, accept it or deny it, reality still is.
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Old 08-18-2014, 03:22 PM   #25
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Just my 2 cents worth, but I'd be more inclined to purchase a pre-owned diesel thats been used to tow than any vehicle with a gas engine thats been used to tow. Towing with any gas engine, even if optioned out with trailer/two package, will take a severe beating compared to a diesel. Myself, my daily driver is an Audi A3 TDI and on the highway I can get around 45 MPH, but get out on a fairly flat highway and I've gotten just a touch over 50 MPH. I have a 2006 Chevy 2500 HD Duramax/Allison and it's used 90% of the time to tow our AS and I get close to 16 MPH hitched up and 18/19 un-hitched. Love the torque of a diesel. Here in Kentucky, theres not much flat land, but no big high mountains like out west. Good luck with your decision.
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Old 08-18-2014, 03:35 PM   #26
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Towing with any gas engine, even if optioned out with trailer/two package, will take a severe beating compared to a diesel.
What evidence/research supports this? Or is this just your opinion on what's actually happening inside the engine?
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Old 08-18-2014, 03:40 PM   #27
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Nissan Titan 5.6L vs Ford F250 diesel

I routinely get 200K plus miles out of my gas engine equipped one tons used for heavy towing in my business, without major breakdowns. Not so with our Ford and Chevy diesels .

I am just expressing my real world observations, unbiased.

I would LOVE to be able to brag about how the money I spent on these diesels was well spent. I cant.

I have a grudge against Dodge ever since they failed to warrantee a Gertag transmission behind the 1990 Dodge I bought new. Since then I kept my word to the service rep and never bought another, but my dad has bought several.

If I were to ever buy another diesel pickup truck it would be a Ram. They are te most reliable in heavy towing by far.
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Old 08-18-2014, 04:19 PM   #28
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I routinely get 200K plus miles out of my gas engine equipped one tons used for heavy towing in my business, without major breakdowns. Not so with our Ford and Chevy diesels .

I am just expressing my real world observations, unbiased.

I would LOVE to be able to brag about how the money I spent on these diesels was well spent. I cant.

I have a grudge against Dodge ever since they failed to warrantee a Gertag transmission behind the 1990 Dodge I bought new. Since then I kept my word to the service rep and never bought another, but my dad has bought several.

If I were to ever buy another diesel pickup truck it would be a Ram. They are te most reliable in heavy towing by far.
That's funny. It has been just the opposite in my business.

The Rams are pieces of c#$p that will nickel and dime you to death with transmission, differential, brakes, various truck problems, no real engine problems. Where as my Fords have been work horses with practically no problems what-so-ever. Ford makes a much better heavy duty truck in my opinion.
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