I am moving my request to a different Forum subject because it is very model/year specific and I was not getting any help from it's original location.
My comments are about my 1976 31ft Sovereign Intl. that I recently purchased.
This started out as a project to replace the Black water tank dump valve and it led me to uncover a much bigger problem..... MAJOR rust damage!
When I removed the bumper and the plastic compartment that holds the sewer hose, I discovered that at some time in the past there had been an undetected SLOW black water tank leak. The leak no longer exists but the caustic contents from the leak started a rusting process that has done major damage to the rear part of the holding tank support pan and also the metal cross member that spans between the two main outside frame rails. You can see this in the photos. This cross member provides the support for the rear of the tank pan that extends all the way to the rear bumper (the pan is bolted to it by several bolts). The pan supports the weight of both holding tanks. As you can see, the bottom part of this metal cross member is badly damaged and eaten away by rust. Also, the pan itself is eaten away in several places forward and aft of the cross member. This is not easily seen in the photos.
I am very undecided as to the best approach for a permanent fix. This is where I need advice, suggestions and ideas.
Depending on how far forward the pan has been weakened by the rust would detemine if it can be successfuly patched. Will I have to remove the pan to determine this? It will be a "BEAR" to remove and it's a 2-man job. It's held on with approx 30 bolts, each one a self-tapping bolt and rachet tight until the last thread just before they fall out!
I plan to phone Jackson Center tomorrow to see if the pan is available, it's price and how much to install.
But the cross member will have to be repaired FIRST! Where and how do I get that done?
Anybody had this problem before. All advice will be appreciated. Thank you, Bill
I ran across this man's restoration project, including repairing the frame and the rear end, including the black water tank and frame. His web site is very nice looking and easy to navigate.
My comments are about my 1976 31ft Sovereign Intl. that I recently purchased.
Depending on how far forward the pan has been weakened by the rust would detemine if it can be successfuly patched. Will I have to remove the pan to determine this? It will be a "BEAR" to remove and it's a 2-man job. It's held on with approx 30 bolts, each one a self-tapping bolt and rachet tight until the last thread just before they fall out!
I plan to phone Jackson Center tomorrow to see if the pan is available, it's price and how much to install.
But the cross member will have to be repaired FIRST! Where and how do I get that done?
Anybody had this problem before. All advice will be appreciated. Thank you, Bill
Hey Bill,
No worries....just a little rust.
You will have to replace the pan, by taking it to a metal fabrication shop and having them make you a new one. It is not a very hard job, and shold not be very expensive. Mechanical shops do this all the time for A/C installations. The pan should be galvanized sheet metal?
As far as the rusted cross member, it is hard to see from the pictures what the extend of the damage is, but is seems to be concentrated to the lower part of the structure.
If that's the case, then a 1x1xwidth steel angle bolted or welded to the existing crossmember should suffice. If not, go up one size to 2x2. This of course after cleaning and treating the area with POR15 or equivalent.
This is a common failure, which my compadre Murray and I have seen several times.
It is a bit of work, but easily handled by a handy person.
Backing up the advice UWE gave I would also like to add some rust converter on the metal while you are in there> They sell it everywhere. and if you have a little rust on some metal but it is still sound then you can flake off the loose stuff and paint it on there. It useually looks white while painting it on the turns the rust Black, In about 24 hours. The your good to go I use a product by Klean Strip rust converter they sell it at auto zone otherwise your local paint supplier will also carry it
I ran across this man's restoration project, including repairing the frame and the rear end, including the black water tank and frame. His web site is very nice looking and easy to navigate.
You will have to replace the pan, by taking it to a metal fabrication shop and having them make you a new one. It is not a very hard job, and shold not be very expensive. Mechanical shops do this all the time for A/C installations. The pan should be galvanized sheet metal?
As far as the rusted cross member, it is hard to see from the pictures what the extend of the damage is, but is seems to be concentrated to the lower part of the structure.
If that's the case, then a 1x1xwidth steel angle bolted or welded to the existing crossmember should suffice. If not, go up one size to 2x2. This of course after cleaning and treating the area with POR15 or equivalent.
This is a common failure, which my compadre Murray and I have seen several times.
It is a bit of work, but easily handled by a handy person.
I have limited resources here in Cullman, but I found a place in the yellow pages that does all kinds of welding AND fabrication of metal. I will give them a call tomorrow and explore this whole repair job. I hope that they can also provide the labor and tools to remove the pan! That is my current "burning" problem. It's just more than I can do by myself. You need an "air wrench" to get those self-tapping bolts out! I've thought about it some more and I'm thinking that if the fiberglass holding tanks are completely empty and all plumbing, vents, and gate valves are still connected, then wouldn't they stay in place long enough to lower the pan and get a board or peice of plywood up under them supported by jacks of some type? With the pan off, then you could "see" how to do a good repair on the crossmember. The old pan could then be used as a template for the new pan.
I talked to AS, Jackson Center and they encouraged me to try to get this repaired locally by a welder/frabricator. We have limited resources here in Cullman, but I got an estimate of $650.00. That includes a NEW frabricated galvanized pan and the welding to repair the crossmember, labor materials, etc.
For about $150.00, I can buy a new 4 1/2 inch Angle Grinder for cutting and preping the metal, a 1/2 inch Air impact wrench for getting at those self-tapping bolts that hold that BIG pan on (I have a 6 gallon air compressor that I think will suffice) and the materials I need or the repair. I would just drill and screw/rivet/bolt new metal to replace the rusted out stuff, then paint everything......no welding.
Pretty big project, though. Thinking about it. Any comments? Bill
The pics never reveal as much as a guy could see in person.
Are your frame parts silver? With that little bit of rust at the bottom?
If I'm looking at things correctly I'd say your frame looks pretty good.
As the others have said put some of that rust neutralizer on it and you will be fine.
As for having it done or buying the tools.
I've always been a believer in getting the tool.
Then you can do this job and many more in the future for the same price.
I talked to AS, Jackson Center and they encouraged me to try to get this repaired locally by a welder/frabricator. We have limited resources here in Cullman, but I got an estimate of $650.00. That includes a NEW frabricated galvanized pan and the welding to repair the crossmember, labor materials, etc.
For about $150.00, I can buy a new 4 1/2 inch Angle Grinder for cutting and preping the metal, a 1/2 inch Air impact wrench for getting at those self-tapping bolts that hold that BIG pan on (I have a 6 gallon air compressor that I think will suffice) and the materials I need or the repair. I would just drill and screw/rivet/bolt new metal to replace the rusted out stuff, then paint everything......no welding.
Pretty big project, though. Thinking about it. Any comments? Bill
Unless you have prior knowledge of metal working, and ALL the associated tools, do yourself a favor and get it done, especially for $ 650.00. Seems fair to me for parts, labor etc. You might end up spending at least half of that for tools you don't know you need yet, plus the materials. Granted, you get to keep the tools, but when will you need them again?
It isn't very difficult, but you will need a sheet metal brake etc. to do a nice job that lasts and looks right. I believe that it is too big a project to "get your feet wet".
Unless you have prior knowledge of metal working, and ALL the associated tools, do yourself a favor and get it done, especially for $ 650.00. Seems fair to me for parts, labor etc.
Limited resources and you got a bid for $650? There is nothing inexpensive about an old trailer, old pickup or old house. If you have above average skills, a covered and dry place to work, and time, and you don't mind spending more than $650, I'd say go for it. Metalwork is a trade skill much like welding. I can weld, but not enough to properly weld a hitch together. I'd sub out the tough work, and I'd do the wheelbearing, electric brakes, and maybe even the torsion suspension. If you decide to do it, at least you have friendly opinions here.
For several reasons this has been a sloooow process .....but I've made some progress...I put the Airstream up on wooden ramps and got the pan off! It was not easy....if it hadn't been for that electric impact wrench that I borrowed and the help of my Nephew, it would have been too much for one person. There were thirty something, self-tapping bolts that held the thing on! I had to tie up the empty tanks before I could lower the pan. The tanks sit in the pan, except for plumbing connections, there is no other support.
As you can see from the photos, the inside of the pan is badly rusted. This was caused by a previous leak somewhere around the tanks, plus a leak from the main tank sewer vent (top of the trailer). It was cracked and decayed and had been leaking for years. I repaired all three of my vents a couple of months ago. This leak alone created quite a bit of rust and water damage. SO CHECK YOUR SEWER VENTS....this is a costly problem!!
The front part of the pan is not too bad....it's recoverable with some rust preventative and paint. But the rear half is in bad shape, eaten through in several places, and will need to be partially replaced. I plan to cut and replace a large section and secure with rivets and Vulkem. I bought myself a 4 1/2 inch Angle grinder......this thing is a wonder, but you have to be very careful with it, it's dangerous......must wear face shield, gloves and long sleeves, but it makes quick work of many tasks, including cutting metal. I should of had this thing years ago!
I have scraped the loose rust from the pan and frame and my next step is to apply 3 coats of a rust stop product called RUST MORT that I bought at an auto parts place. After that, I will do the cutting and replacement of metal on the pan and the trailer frame and then paint everything.
That's very helpful information, Bill. Thanks for posting the pics. Could you get a shot from underneath of the configuration of the pans and plumbing above the pan?
Anne
Same story on mine I just caught it sooner, had a sewer pipe leak at the roof gasket.
I just put it all back over the weekend, and took today off it's like 75 degrees here and just spent 3 hours fiberglassing the entire wood floor, it will never happen again!
Can't wait to walk on it tomorrow to see how much stiffer the floor is!
Do you need a new pan or are you going to clean it up and POR it?
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB '07 GMC 4x4 2500HD EC 8.1 Allision six | Bedrug | Softopper | Airbags
WBCCI 11411 | Metro NY | AIR 15915
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That's very helpful information, Bill. Thanks for posting the pics. Could you get a shot from underneath of the configuration of the pans and plumbing above the pan?
Anne
Anne, my digital camera is a "cheapie" and has a 50mm fixed focus lens and I cannot get any closer to a subject than about 4 feet and still be in focus. So, that means I cannot take photos from underneath the trailer. Theres not much to be seen under there. The tanks cover up everything. The two holding tanks sit side-by-side, with dump valves and sewer exits in the rear, with a metal "C" beam between them that runs front to rear. They had 2 each 1/2 inch styrofoam pads of insulation under the bottom and 1/2 inch on all sides. Each tank sits on a big plastic slope pad, then the insulation and then the pan. Bill
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.....but I've made some progress...I put the Airstream up on wooden ramps and got the pan off! 
It was not easy....if it hadn't been for that electric impact wrench that I borrowed and the help of my Nephew, it would have been too much for one person. There were thirty something, self-tapping bolts that held the thing on! I had to tie up the empty tanks before I could lower the pan. The tanks sit in the pan, except for plumbing connections, there is no other support.
Say no to Lawrence Welk attitudes
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