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Old 09-14-2012, 09:59 PM   #29
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How many of you remember the Toyota and Datsun cab/chassis combos rolling off the ships in Long Beach Harbor and then mated to a US made bed to get out of paying the duty on a finished truck back in the seventies? It's never been a level playing field dealing with Japanese auto manufacturers. Profits on a US made Tundra are still shipped back to Japan.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:35 PM   #30
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Profits on a US made Tundra are still shipped back to Japan.
Good point. Not only do the profits go back to Japan, so does money to cover R&D costs and the investment in intellectual property to develop new engine and transmission technology that will maintain and increase a country's competitive advantage.
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:26 PM   #31
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Welcome to globalization. Parts from everywhere that were individual components, then assembled into subsystems anywhere, then into ....(etc.) and ultimately someone, somewhere, assembles the final product. It is difficult, if not impossible to claim anything is truly "Made in American" (or made exclusively anywhere else in the world).

Sorry, but that is today's reality, like it or not....
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:00 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Denis4x4 View Post
How many of you remember the Toyota and Datsun cab/chassis combos rolling off the ships in Long Beach Harbor and then mated to a US made bed to get out of paying the duty on a finished truck back in the seventies? It's never been a level playing field dealing with Japanese auto manufacturers. Profits on a US made Tundra are still shipped back to Japan.
Hi, I remember the Toyota truck bed factory in Paramount. Only a few miles from my home.
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:10 AM   #33
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Welcome to globalization...
I think it is fairly common knowledge that US Tier 1 automotive suppliers sell to foreign automakers and conversely, US automakers buy from foreign Tier 1 suppliers, and so on down to the subsystem, components and even raw materials. There is nothing new there except the latest term for international trade..."globalization".

There is also nothing new in the reality that buying a Ford does a helluva a lot more for the US economy, tactically and strategically, than buying a Toyota.
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:32 AM   #34
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My problem is the fact that the OEM's don't even know where they got some of the parts after about 7 years. They want you to buy new rather than fix them.

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Old 10-11-2012, 04:53 PM   #35
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Made in Canada, assembled in Mexico, designed in Japan, patented in Germany, welded in Detroit, and upholstered in Albuquerque...

All good points. But nobody has mentioned the additional 53% above the sticker price you'll be paying on that $30K truck.

It's the 4,200 gallons of gas you'll burn in the next 100K miles. That's assuming a 24 MPG average. If you freeze today's national average of $3.80... it works out to $16 grand. More than half the cost of the truck.

So yes, it's important to know who made our vehicles and where. But we should also be mindful who we'll be paying for the next ten years, for the pleasure of driving it. That's a more complicated issue, and I haven't yet seen a "country of origin" sticker at the local pump.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:22 PM   #36
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My Tundra was built in the USA in Indiana.

This summer we towed our "American Icon" Airstream with our American built Tundra to New Hampshire Motor Speedway - sponsored by Toyota,
and Jamboree in the Hills - als sponsored by Toyota.

Toyota employes Americans and sponsors American events, who cares where the parent company came from!

My Ford Flex was built here in Canada, as a Canadian I'm proud of that, and its good to see Canadian's employed, I don't care who owns the Parent company.

I'll tell you of one guy who cares. My Dad. Still living...will be 93 in December. His Destroyer lies just off Okinawa.
I remember him telling me as a child of a newspaper article shortly after the war in which a Japanese muckity-muck of some sort said that they had lost the battle but would win the war...not with guns, but with the dollar...and we let them!!! All of us.
Americans have very short memories.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:37 PM   #37
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Not to be too snarky, but I hear the Brits treated us pretty poorly a while back too. Something about a King trying to boss us around. Maybe we oughta cut ties with them, too?
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:16 PM   #38
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Not to be too snarky, but I hear the Brits treated us pretty poorly a while back too. Something about a King trying to boss us around. Maybe we oughta cut ties with them, too?
That, sir, was a parent/child relationship....not a sneak attack with all your military might to accomplish world Empirical dominance. Not quite an equal argument, but nice for argument's sake.

Actually, the issues were not too unlike many of the issues in tonight's debate....taxes. Pretty benign, compared to Pearl Harbor.
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:20 AM   #39
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The Tundra that towed the shuttle was stock.

Towing 300,000 lbs. for even a short distance from a dead stop is quite a feet for any truck. It was tested for the job with more than twice that weight.

The Tundra has a higher proportion of US made parts than other full sized "American" trucks.

Toyota stock can be purchased by anyone anywhere. Toyota has more than a half million shareholders all over the world. It is not strictly a Japanese company, but like all large corporations is owned by shareholders all over the world. It is listed on the NY Stock Exchange (symbol: TM) as well as exchanges around the world.

Chrysler is controlled and mostly owned by an Italian company, Fiat, but people still buy their trucks thinking they are "American".

If Toyota, Nissan and others had not brought their better made vehicles to the US, we'd still be driving poorly made US vehicles. This is competition. Seems like some preach the virtues of competition except when it comes from somewhere else.

Ford, GM and Chrysler make much better vehicles than they used to, but it is arguable whether they have caught up.

We have owned Toyotas that were bullet proof. In the past several years Toyota has not produced vehicles that are as good as the ones from 10 or 15 years ago, but they are still damn good. They have tried to be the #1 manufacturer in the world and have sometimes forgotten how they got where they are. Our Tundra's drivetrain is amazing, but some of the fit and finish items are cheap. Maybe they are the parts made in the US. The shop manager at a Toyota dealer told me their experience was the parts that fail are US made. But we don't see the dealer much because few things break.

When it comes time to buy another vehicle, we'd love to buy a US one if they as good or better than Toyotas. Unfortunately, Subarus seem to be as good now. Since my injured back tells me Subarus are too hard to get in and out of (trucks and truck based SUV's are easiest for me), it probably won't be a Subaru. But our 4Runner has 95,000 miles and runs like new, the interior is like new and the paint is holding up fairly well. Why change it? The Tundra has 75,000 miles and tows just like new. No reason to change it. And I know we are ready to tow a space shuttle if we need to.

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Old 10-14-2012, 05:56 PM   #40
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Picture...

Here's a picture of the Tundra towing the shuttle.
Links to more photos from the LA Times below. Caption of this photo said Toyota made an investment in the California Science Center (and presumably got the right to do this as a result).

http://framework.latimes.com/2012/10...ndeavour-2/#/0
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:00 PM   #41
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Feels wrong that the shuttles are now museum display pieces. I worked on the program for 22 years and though I know it was crazy expensive to operate, it's a shame that it ended (manned space) as it did. Every time I speak with one of my NASA counterparts they apologize for not having a better plan in place... I'm just thankful that the shuttles aren't being hacked to move into their resting places.
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i appreciate the inside info. and i'm glad others can see up close just what a fantastic feat it is to get these things into space.

but....

while not a devout tree hugger i think the things done to get it to the museum are over the top and not appropriate to do in this time of slashing budgets.

400 trees to be cut in LA to make room for shuttle - Video on NBCNews.com
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:12 PM   #42
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I was working for RCA on NASA contracts in the 60's & 70's..

Near space satellites OAO, OGO, NIMBUS, GEOS, ATS and many others.

Lots of deep space shots I can't remember all the names

I did not work on manned space shots but NASA did put a man on the moon.

Everything was Made in the USA.

Today our astronauts are shuttled to the international space station by the Russians.

What's tomorrow going to bring????
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