WBCCI turning into a forum?

[Andy R]

I was sort of surprised when I saw the WBCCI description on Airstream.com. We each got 2 paragraphs of space to describe what we are. WBCCI has a tiny paragraph about the club and a huge paragraph about their forums. They have two links to their club website and 3 links to their forums. It seems to me that the official statements the WBCCI is putting out is that they want to change into a forum community. Does anyone know if this is one of the WBCCI initiatives?

Here is a link to the page on Airstream's website.


One thing I did not appreciate much is the fact they copy and pasted our copyright protected Community Rules and use big chunks of them in their Terms of Service. How would the WBCCI like it if we cut and paste their Constitution, Bylaws and other club materials and turn AIR into a club?

I have always had respect for the WBCCI and a desire to not polarize the community. Unfortunately recent actions on their part signal that their goal is to indeed compete with our community and not embrace it as part of the Airstream landscape. We do forums very well, they do clubs and rallies very well.We should stick to our core competencies and be complimentary to each other, not divisive.

[Nuvite-F]

This is all news to me!

What it appears is that WBCCI, never the shiniest trailer in the park for web-savviness, has let you-know-who hijack its web presence. Most sad.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

[wheel interested]

I'm just shaking my head too Andy.

There appears to be various issues of inappropriateness. I hope these matters are brought to the attention of some esculated oversight within the WBCCI. The short of it in my opinion is the Board of Trustees as a whole is not following along in this venture and the forum is being run autonomously by an individual able to profit from the non-profit organization. There are definite conflicts of interest working under the umbrella and as representative of the club as it now exists.

All the WBCCI forum ever needed was the leadership to take an active interest and participate. It seems leadership is still needed. Without their representation and development the results have been rather dubious. We have Air Forums for the Airstreaming community. The club forum should offer communications between leadership and general membership and not just try to grab the skirt of Air Forums and replicate their success and escound with your intellectual property.

[RedSHED]

Moderation, I have heard, is the key to a vibrant forum. The moderation here is quite good, IMO.

I don't get that sense about other places.

[munimula]

The powers that be at Airstream and WBCCI look at the Airforums membership number of 36,000+/- and take notice.

As an Airstreamer, this is an amazing place to hang out. The conversation is ALWAYS interesting. It would be great if the IBT'ers would actually tune in here and listen to what the general Airstream population is saying.

[wheel interested]

I'll agree with that. Our moderators are like hosts and hostesses and make our visits enjoyable. They are just, witty, helpful, and spontaneous and express their ideas as co-members of the community without compromising their moderation duties.

Oh yes, It's Save Wally.org to find out what's really going on in the WBCCI to increase member awareness, where talk is candid, direct and welcome.

[Jim & Susan]

Originally Posted by RedSHED

Moderation, I have heard, is the key to a vibrant forum. The moderation here is quite good, IMO.

I don't get that sense about other places.

Bingo! Give that man a seegaar! The leadership of this forum is top drawer. That's what makes this place a pleasant 'net site to visit any time we choose to log in here. What is bizarre about the WBCCI actions is that Andy has gone out of his way to allow them access to this site. Even allowing them private WBCCI areas here to carry out club functions. Weird. But, as others have pointed out, the new Wally club site will probably go the way of earlier attempts (read: crash and burn).

Just my 2 cents. YMMV.

Jim

[StingrayL82]

Just to play Devil's Advocate, what would you do, if you were an up-and-coming forum, AND you belonged to the originator of this entire fascination we have with these trailers? I wouldn't want to embrace you, Andy, I would want to crush you into oblivion and make sure that all of your subscribers became my subscribers. Then, when that goal was accomplished, I would offer to buy your defunct website at a fraction of the cost of what it would have been, had you been successful, and absorb it into my own website.

IIRC, wasn't www.airstreamcentral.net a competitor?

Like I said, just playing Devil's Advocate and, if I were you, I'd learn how to become really good at playing chess, if you aren't already.

I kinda like this site...

on edit: btw, I have absolutely no plans whatsoever to join their forum. I quit the WBCCI, because I vehemently disagreed with their policies, so what the hell would make them think I'd want to join their forum...besides, it's redundant to belong to two Airstream forums, just like I only belong to one Ford Diesel forum and one Cummins Turbo Diesel forum.

[Andy R]

I wasn't trying to bring up the vendor issue with their forums again. I consider that a done deal, they made a choice and it is what it is. What I am seeing on the Airstream Corporate site is a change of direction in message from the WBCCI. I am sure the club approved what gets posted on the Airstream Corporate site! I just feel like they are switching direction and looking to polarize the community even more. We should be helping each other out, building a stronger community and doing what we do best. I just don't understand...

[StingrayL82]

It's business, Andy, and Airstream is in the business of winning, whether it be selling trailers or getting forum subscribers. Let's face it, in the grand scheme of things, there's not a huge population of Airstream owners, so why not try to monopolize every facet of the market you can? That's exactly what they're trying to do. Unless you're proactive, good will and friendly gestures will find you forumless.

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by Andy R

One thing I did not appreciate much is the fact they copy and pasted our copyright protected Community Rules and use big chunks of them in their Terms of Service.

You know, Andy, you have a point there.

Maybe the best thing for everybody--both Air Forums and the members of the WBCCI--would be for you to have your intellectual property attorney draft a nice letter to the International President of the WBCCI explaining that the WBCCI is infringing your copyright and if the WBCCI doesn't cease and desist, Air Forums will be forced to sue them.

The whole WBCCI forum issue is beneath the WBCCI executive committees radar--they know little of it and care less--and the contractor who is doing this is taking advantage of their inattention. Irrespective of the actual legalities of the matter, your lawyer letter might properly focus the executive committee's attention on the problem. Once they turn over that particular rock I don't think they will be pleased with what they find.

[Jim & Susan]

65GT, near as I can tell, Andy has never sold any of our personal info to anybody.

Sounds like the WBCCI site has a lawyer lurking in the background someplace to cover everybody's beehind.

Jim

[goransons]

In the last 45 minutes this thread may have just surpassed the above mentioned forum's daily post count....

[Aage]

Originally Posted by Andy R

One thing I did not appreciate much is the fact they copy and pasted our copyright protected Community Rules and use big chunks of them in their Terms of Service. How would the WBCCI like it if we cut and paste their Constitution, Bylaws and other club materials and turn AIR into a club?

Yes, it's actionable, but I suggest you tread very lightly there, Andy. The threat of a suit would make good press for the new forum and give them an "underdog" mantle to flaunt.

Personally, I would make it a phone call, not a letter or email, to someone high up in the WBCCI, just to advise them that their new consignee isn't playing nicely, and you thought he might want to know. No threat.

My bet it is that would get it changed right smartly.

The copy and paste is pure laziness of course, and if that's a hint of their tone and quality, as was already stated, I don't think you have much to worry about.

[Andy R]

Originally Posted by Jim & Susan

65GT, near as I can tell, Andy has never sold any of our personal info to anybody...

I can assure you we do not share any personal information with anyone. We work very hard to make sure it's safe.

[Andy R]

I have no plans to sue the WBCCI or get into a legal battle. As I stated in my last post, I think we should all be working together and not working against each other. We are each others best ally. I don't mind taking the high road. If we continue to provide an excellent venue for our members with their best interest in mind then we will continue to be successful.

[wheel interested]

I think to advertise WBCCI as the original Airstream community when Air forums is #1 Airstream community in the ads on Airstream's site dilutes the impact for both ads and of course Air Forums had advertised that first, so original is somewhat misleading and to call WBCCI the original community seems more competitive than precise.

No I totally hear what Andy is saying. He has established Air Forums, and Airstream and WBCCI should be highlighting the individual facets of each distinctly different entity. In association together they should cooperatively establish and display uniqueness instead of duplication and competition.

Andy has been very clear that AirForums is not a club. He has not infringed upon WBCCI, though the opportunity presents itself often when many clamor to make the forums their substitute. I believe he does that intentionally to be a good team player with WBCCI. Now I think the same should be expected of WBCCI conversely.

But as stated before this is in the control of a single individual who is newly charged with the decision making without benefit of other WBCCI counsel.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Some out there are very confused. Airstream is a trailer company owned by Thor. Airstream is not the club called the WBCCI.

I have been told an iceberg has so much stored cold inside of it that you can feel it's chill before you strike it. I feel very cold these days.

[StingrayL82]

Frank, Airstream might not own the WBCCI, but it sure does provide support to it.

This forum was once called www. airstreamforums. com and, unless I'm completely off the mark, was it not Airstream who took issue with that? Airstream used to have a forum, and I just went to their website looking everywhere for it, but it's not there anymore.

So the question begs, what venue does Airstream have/provide/support for the owners of its products?

[hampstead38]

I'm going to disagree on a point... saying a forum is successful because of great moderation is like saying there's no crime because a community has a great police force. It may "feel" right, but it really isn't true.

Airforums is successful because of its community. The members are knowledge, prolific in writing and often have something interesting or valuable to say. How many people come here and say, "Wow... look at the moderating here." This is the single best place to come for information on Airstreams including vintage renovations. Airstream devotees are passionate. Even if the Airforums didn't accept a single new post, it would still get heavy traffic as a web resource.

Please don't misunderstand. I'm not criticizing Andy. I like the site enough to contribute financially. I just think that any website is about content... and the quality of the content is limited only by the intelligence, creativity and knowledge of participants... and the willingness of the moderator(s) to allow participants the freedom to share.

Ladies and gentlemen, the greatness of this forum is due to you.