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turk123 · 06-28-2019, 02:24 PM

I just had a conversation with Airstream about my battery disconnect switch by the door. It did not work and the button had a blue light lit all the time. It's never worked and is one of the warranty items I have for a July visit.

Today when visiting the trailer in storage, I turned off the battery disconnect switch under the wardrobe and turned on the wifi connection. I could log into the connect system, could see my tank levels and gps location, but the control page said "battery disconnect" . Airstream suggested I re-pair the trailer which I did and no go.

He told me to see if the button had the same feel as the others when pressed. It did not. It only moved very little compared to the others. I removed the four screws on the panel and pulled it. You have to be very careful when doing this as it is very easy to hit the dip switches on the right side of the board.

I disconnected the wires from the disconnect switch and re-installed the panel. I logged into the connect system and the control page was there.

It looks like the switch was causing the app not to function properly. I also now have a warning on the Czone LED panel that a device was disconnected. That makes sense. The czone panel has always recognized the disconnect switch and in fact, could activate it from the LED panel. It still works. It is interesting that the Czone "sees" the switch and monitors when it is pressed. In my case, it thought it was in the disconnect mode and reported it to the software controlling the connect system.

Froglips · 06-29-2019, 06:46 AM

turk123,
Just trying to understand the CZone system here...
The CZone panels are just wireless switches, right? So except for a power supply to the panel, there is nothing else connected. When you disconnected the Battery Disconnect switch, you were simply disconnecting it from the Internet in the trailer, right?

I am slightly surprised that the master disconnect "physical" switch under the closet does not turn off the wireless system in the trailer. There is a lot of electronics still "on" if you can see the Battery Disconnect status with the physical master disconnect turned off. I am not sure that is a "safe" storage system for the batteries. Back to putting a disconnect switch at the battery box for long term storage.

uncle_bob · 06-29-2019, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Froglips

turk123,
Just trying to understand the CZone system here...
The CZone panels are just wireless switches, right? So except for a power supply to the panel, there is nothing else connected. When you disconnected the Battery Disconnect switch, you were simply disconnecting it from the Internet in the trailer, right?

I am slightly surprised that the master disconnect "physical" switch under the closet does not turn off the wireless system in the trailer. There is a lot of electronics still "on" if you can see the Battery Disconnect status with the physical master disconnect turned off. I am not sure that is a "safe" storage system for the batteries. Back to putting a disconnect switch at the battery box for long term storage.

Hi

Two different switches, both getting called "disconnect" by a *lot* of people. The problem switch in this case could also be called the "use/store" switch and the other one the "master disconnect".

Bob

Froglips · 06-30-2019, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Two different switches, both getting called "disconnect" by a *lot* of people. The problem switch in this case could also be called the "use/store" switch and the other one the "master disconnect".

Bob

If you read turk123's message, he says he turns off the Master Disconnect under the closet then turns on the wireless.

For me turning off is setting something to the OFF position. I was expressing surprise that the wireless system would be powered with the Master Disconnect off.

turk123 · 06-30-2019, 08:00 AM

Ok, let me explain better.

Before I start, you have to remember if the master disconnect is "On", the power to the trailer is off. When disconnecting is "off", the trailer power is on.

There is a physical master disconnect switch under the wardrobe in a lower cabinet. It is a large red dial. You turn it to shut off power to everything except the propane and smoke detectors. It is not a battery disconnect although Airstream calls it that.

The Czone panel by the door has two connections to it. One is a blue multi-connect plug that I assume is power and ethernet and runs to the Czone "switch" located in the same cabinet as the disconnect switch under the wardrobe. Lots of blinky lights and I assume is an internet switch. This connector is for all the buttons including the disconnect button. The disconnect button on the panel has it's own wiring (3 wires) with spade connectors that I am guessing goes directly to the disconnect switch under the wardrobe.

When this button is pressed (which is the "on" position), you can hear the master disconnect switch under the wardrobe turning and shutting off the power to the trailer ("on" position). It is motorized. You cannot turn it "off" again from this button or any other button. You must remove the cabinet door and turn the disconnect switch manually to turn master disconnect "off". This turns on the power to the trailer.

When the master disconnect is "off", you can also turn it "on" from the Czone panel. That once again shuts the entire trailer off (except for propane and smoke sensors) and the Czone panel goes dark. The wireless hotspot is also shut down.

My problem was that when the trailer was "on" and with power, the app reported that the master disconnect switch was set to disconnect ("on" position). Nothing appeared in the "control" page of the app. except the message "Battery disconnect". The other app functions worked. The GPS was on, the tank levels show up, and of course, the hot spot was working.

By disconnecting the wires on the disconnect button on the panel near the door (taking off the three spade connectors) the app control page came back and I could control the trailer functions again from the app.

My trailer is not here at home but I will find out later today if the three spade connectors provide power to the entire panel by the door. They seem to be connected to the disconnect button only, but still could be providing power to the rest of the panel. I left and did not test the other buttons. The Czone panel on the wall has an alert saying device missing. I would assume the entire panel is missing. I will check today.

With the Airstream connect on, I can connect to my trailer and monitor the batteries and temps inside and I am watching how the solar performs.

turk123 · 06-30-2019, 11:58 AM

After a trip to the trailer, I found out a lot more about how the system works. First, here are pictures of the panel removed. When I took it out I had realized that I bumped the dip switches and changed the address of the panel. That is why the Czone main panel had a warning that the device was offline.

The disconnect button does not supply power to the panel. Also, the other connector is not blue but beige. It has power for the rest of the buttons.

I tried for about an hour to reset the buttons, but the czone main panel would not see it. Finally, I tried the not obvious "ignore the numbering scheme" and it worked. If you look at the white panel screen it says 00010111. Normally the first number #1 dip should be O, but to make it work you have to start with dip switch 8 and go backward. So looking at the card (turn the picture 90 degree counterclockwise) and you see the pattern that czone wants. Crazy!

When removing this panel, you have to be very careful not to hit the dipswitches. You don't really realize how they get moved until you get it out. Fortunately, you can read the correct dip switch settings on the main panel under settings, about, dip switch. You can scroll through the devices and their addresses. This one is "entry sw". You also can change the device numbers in this area, but be careful, I accidentally changed the main panels address and lost all the names to the devices. Under network, you can find the devices and see if they are online. If not, it gives you the correct address. I've said too much and I do NOT recommend you mess with these settings unless you want to make a trip to the dealer!!!! We do not have the manual to the Czone nor do we need to go in there.

So why remove the panel? Right behind the panel is perfect access to one of the Alde bleed valves. It's right there and easy to get at. Just be sure you understand how to find the panels dip switch settings and understand the backward settings from the main panel. You will most certainly move one of those dip switches removing the panel.

In the first picture, you can see the heaviest black electrical cord. When putting back the panel, you must bring that cable all the way down (to the right in the picture) and around the bottom between the two circuit boards. If not, the panel will not go in straight and you will hit the dip switches. OK?

Froglips · 07-01-2019, 07:26 AM

OK. I will follow your lexicon for describing the switch position of the physical disconnect switch in the closet. This must be an RV thing because it sure isn't an electrical thing.

Nevertheless, the switch in the closet (motorized, wow, that is interestingly complicated) is just controlled by the CZone switch, right? There really isn't a battery disconnect in our Classic, right? In my Classic, when I switch to Battery Disconnect using the CZone entry panel, my modem stays on. I have to turn the power key at the modem to power it down. I was cautioned when I bought the trailer that I needed to do that because the modem would run down the battery in storage.
Now I learn there are other things "on" when the battery disconnect is engaged.
Why wouldn't Airstream label this Store/Use like my Eddie Baure is labeled? It isn't a battery disconnect or even close.
This is important to me because I am looking for covered storage in AZ. Now, with the AS outside it get enough sunlight to keep the batteries charged. Under cover, not so much.

uncle_bob · 07-02-2019, 07:02 AM

Hi

On a lot of what AS is making, there now are two switches. One is the traditional use / store switch (labeled who knows how) and the other is indeed a real battery disconnect. Which models get both and how they are labeled ... who knows ... It does make discussions like this a bit wacky.

Just *why* the Classic did not get a true battery disconnect and they just relabeled the use/store switch - no idea at all. Seems like a "downgrade" vs the other models to me.

Blb

turk123 · 07-04-2019, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Froglips

Why wouldn't Airstream label this Store/Use like my Eddie Baure is labeled? It isn't a battery disconnect or even close.
This is important to me because I am looking for covered storage in AZ. Now, with the AS outside it get enough sunlight to keep the batteries charged. Under cover, not so much.

I stored my Airstream Classic in Arizona for several months and just pulled the black feeds from the batteries. I bought a true battery disconnect to do the same. Just have to install it. Away mode on the classic keeps the Czone working along with smoke detector and propane detector and WiFi connect system. Since my disconnect switch on the entry panel does not work, I turn the red disconnect switch under the wardrobe. It shuts everything off except the propane and smoke detectors. It shuts My wifi off. This is as far as Airstream is allowed to do under the law. Airstream refused to install my battery disconnect switch in my battery box for legal reasons. OK, I get it.

Froglips · 07-05-2019, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turk123

I stored my Airstream Classic in Arizona for several months and just pulled the black feeds from the batteries. I bought a true battery disconnect to do the same. Just have to install it. Away mode on the classic keeps the Czone working along with smoke detector and propane detector and WiFi connect system. Since my disconnect switch on the entry panel does not work, I turn the red disconnect switch under the wardrobe. It shuts everything off except the propane and smoke detectors. It shuts My wifi off. This is as far as Airstream is allowed to do under the law. Airstream refused to install my battery disconnect switch in my battery box for legal reasons. OK, I get it.

Legal reasons? I will assume there is some "the government is protecting you" law about not disabling smoke and propane detectors. If no one is in the trailer, they can beep and squawk all they want. Just the device to run the batteries down.

However, now I am confused. Your description would indicate that the red motorized switch under the closet does something different when mechanically turned (wifi powered off) than when the CZone button is pressed (turns the motorized red switch under the closet, right?) which does not turn off the wifi (at least it doesn't in my trailer).

turk123 · 07-05-2019, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Froglips

However, now I am confused. Your description would indicate that the red motorized switch under the closet does something different when mechanically turned (wifi powered off) than when the CZone button is pressed (turns the motorized red switch under the closet, right?) which does not turn off the wifi (at least it doesn't in my trailer).

Well, I can't test what your trailer does as my button is broken. But if I turn off the red switch, my wifi goes down. It shuts off the Czone system completely.
Why would you need the wifi left on if the Czone can't control the trailer?

On my friends new Classic the disconnect button on the entry panel does nothing more than cause the motorized "red" disconnect switch to turn to the disconnect position. I will be out at the trailer today and I will verify it again. I'm going to attempt to install my disconnect switch in the battery box.

Froglips · 07-06-2019, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turk123

Well, I can't test what your trailer does as my button is broken. But if I turn off the red switch, my wifi goes down. It shuts off the Czone system completely.
Why would you need the wifi left on if the Czone can't control the trailer?

On my friends new Classic the disconnect button on the entry panel does nothing more than cause the motorized "red" disconnect switch to turn to the disconnect position. I will be out at the trailer today and I will verify it again. I'm going to attempt to install my disconnect switch in the battery box.

Hmmm, in my trailer the Battery Disconnect does indeed turn the motorized red disconnect in the closet. However, the wifi modem remains powered. More weird AS quality control? As I have read these forums, I have read of many manufacturing variances between trailers in the same model year. Mine has a "bad software" load in the Alde system and appears to have the wifi system permanently on.

jmitchell · 07-06-2019, 02:31 PM

At least on the 2019, the router is intended to be always on. See the Battery Disconnect section in the owners manual, its on a "24-hr circuit" (5mA).

I noticed on my last Classic that the recliners would only work when the inverter was on, but on my new classic they work without the inverter.

turk123 · 07-06-2019, 03:31 PM

My recliners do not work without the inverter when on battery power?

jmitchell · 07-06-2019, 04:59 PM

That was my observation last trip out, I'll be sure to confirm 100% for you when my trailer is out of storage next. The TV and blue ray for 2020 also operates on 12V now (of this I am 100% certain, since I enjoyed a film last time on battery power only without the inverter). The TV Mfg has switched from Samsung to LG.

jmitchell · 07-06-2019, 05:45 PM

Hi Turk123, not sure if you have taken your couch out yet (very difficult for one person to put back and realign, removing is easy), but there is a dedicated wall plug with a label on it that says "Inverter Only" mounted on the wall (see below picture). The two cables plugged in there are the recliner motors (one plug for the right, and one for the left). The interesting thing is that each of those cords go into their own black box that looks an awful lot like a typical AC/DC adapter that is used for things like laptop computers. The boxes are zip tied to the sofa frame. I was not in there to figure out the couches at the time, so paid no mind to it until now. I did notice that the plugs going into the side of the "adapter" were not well secured (like the thick side plug of a laptop adapter, and I pushed them in extra hard before putting my couch back together. I'm not at all certain of this, but if that was an AC/DC adapter then they may have simply rewired those drives on the newer model to avoid the necessity for the adapter. I have to say, it would be surprising to me that they would not have just run them off DC in the first place, but if that is the case then there was probably reasons (of which I could think of a few).

uncle_bob · 07-07-2019, 07:34 AM

Hi

If you dig into the wiring diagram, the magic plug behind the couch that has the inverter label on it does indeed route to the inverter. In the Classic, (all recent models up to 2019 ... no idea about 2020) the inverter has a transfer switch in it. When the inverter is off, those plugs get hooked to shore power. Of course if there is no shore power *and* no inverter ... no recliners.

The circuit that drives the transfer switch has it's own breaker. If that is tripped, then indeed they become inverter only. There also is a fuse or breaker (depending on the year) hidden away somewhere on the output of the transfer switch that will kill them both on shore and invert.

Even when turned off, the inverter pulls a lot of current (compared to the propane detector). Because of the giant cables it needs, disconnecting it takes a pretty big switch or other device. The tiny little thing they use for the "use / store" function isn't up to the task. You would need a gizmo like the Blue Sea 7000 series solenoids or their manual switch to do the job.

Bob

turk123 · 07-07-2019, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

If you dig into the wiring diagram, the magic plug behind the couch that has the inverter label on it does indeed route to the inverter. In the Classic, (all recent models up to 2019 ... no idea about 2020) the inverter has a transfer switch in it. When the inverter is off, those plugs get hooked to shore power. Of course if there is no shore power *and* no inverter ... no recliners.

The circuit that drives the transfer switch has it's own breaker. If that is tripped, then indeed they become inverter only. There also is a fuse or breaker (depending on the year) hidden away somewhere on the output of the transfer switch that will kill them both on shore and invert.

Even when turned off, the inverter pulls a lot of current (compared to the propane detector). Because of the giant cables it needs, disconnecting it takes a pretty big switch or other device. The tiny little thing they use for the "use / store" function isn't up to the task. You would need a gizmo like the Blue Sea 7000 series solenoids or their manual switch to do the job.

Bob

What he said!

jmitchell · 07-07-2019, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Even when turned off, the inverter pulls a lot of current (compared to the propane detector). Because of the giant cables it needs, disconnecting it takes a pretty big switch or other device. The tiny little thing they use for the "use / store" function isn't up to the task. You would need a gizmo like the Blue Sea 7000 series solenoids or their manual switch to do the job.

Bob

Hi Gents, Are you saying that the inverter always has power going to it, even when the trailer is in "store" mode? Then is the inverter just switched off in "store" mode through a smaller circuit, but the larger supply cables are always providing resistance to the system? Even with the battery disconnect button pushed?

jmitchell · 07-07-2019, 03:47 PM

Disregard my reply above, I've been looking at the wiring diagram and figured out what you were saying. I'm not a fan of ghost (standby mode) loads, or rouge fuses that don't hang out with the rest of their kind in (or adjacent to) the fuse box! Pet peeves. Another good reason to make sure and have a disconnect on the battery, which I have (I have yet to install on the 2020 though, in a box with other parts from the previous).

Have a good evening.