Drilling into kitchen/cabinet wall...how? AS QA problem

[kbmwrs]

2016 International FB 25'

Just got back from a 5800 mile trip across the country from California to Wisconsin and back.

Trip was basically uneventful...meaning the AS performed great. Used AC extensively, Refrigerator was on 'auto' and kept things cold, plumbing was no issue.
BUT....
AS QA Control raised its head again.

Last time it was the flip up counter extension by the door that fell off. Only held on barely by a 1/4" of screw into the kitchen sidewall. I bolted it on with a backing plate...it ain't comin' off anytime soon.

This time....well the doors under the sink (curved ones with the round sink above) always seem not to be that well attached. First the ball bearings that serve as the closing clasp fall out. Now I check the hinges and note that they are loose. Go to tighten them and discover that one hinge only has ONE screw holding it to the wall. There's that QA problem.
Ok fine add another screw. Not so fast McGee! Seems AS didn't even drill a hole for a screw and since there's no hole AS didn't add the screw.

This is very tight quarters (can't get even a small hand drill in there) and the surface is laminated. Can't get a screw started or even a drill bit...it slides on the laminate. No room for a punch either.

Any suggestions?

[kbmwrs]

[OTRA15]

Could you post a photo? Hard to picture IMO.

How about a small portable cordless right-angle drill of some kind? To get a small "pilot hole" started, so that any drill bit can find a "seat" of some kind, take a very sharp pointed kitchen paring knife, and gently rotate its pointed end right where you want to start the hole. Putting a layer of duct tape first will help you lay out and mark the exact location. If this knife is a good quality steel, the laminate will not damage the point IMO. You only need a place for a SHARP drill ~1/16" to find "home" then you can increase the size. There are some very small hand-held drill "chucks" which would let you do this all by hand, at least to get started.

A photo will help a lot IMO . . . nearby good hardware store opening early in the morning? Also good lighting in that space is important IMO. A battery camping lantern, or similar small task light perhaps.

"Where there's a will . . . there's a way!"

Good luck,

Peter

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, seems like you could use the hole in the hinge to help guide your drill or self drilling screw.

[kbmwrs]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, seems like you could use the hole in the hinge to help guide your drill or self drilling screw.

the laminate prevents this without good pressure and the lack of access to do that is the problem.

[kbmwrs]

Agreed about the pic.....tried using Google pics and it wouldn't show.

[OTRA15]

Per earlier post:
-- duct tape pad
-- mark location with small felt-tip marker
-- short sharp paring knife for first "guide divot"
-- hardware store in morning for short hand-held manual chuck of some kind
-- short drill bits if needed

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Don't expect a magic cure here IMO.

Invent your own future.

Happy trails,

Peter

[InsideOut]

Can you "mark the spot" then remove the door and/or other hinges to pre-drill a small pilot hole - then put it back together again? I know it sounds like two steps back then three forward - but it may be the only way to get in there.

Shari

[SilverLife]

I've been in some very tight spaces with only a drill to get me out. This is what will do the trick:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B013UBXU3E/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

Try to keep that a secret because it'll put you into the Hallowed Handyman Hall of Fame

For drilling a hole perfectly centered on a hinge screw opening:

https://www.amazon.com/Senrob-Centering-Drill-Alignment-Woodworking/dp/B07K1Q1HFR/ref=mp_s_a_1_15?dchild=1&keywords=vix+bit+hex&qid= 1624759103&sr=8-15

Another more well known trick.

Also: Use #17 split point tip
with coarse thread if possible. Oh and don't overtighten.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by kbmwrs

. . .
. . . This is very tight quarters (can't get even a small hand drill in there) No room for a punch either.
. . .

Originally Posted by kbmwrs

. . .
. . . the lack of access to do that is the problem.

Not sure whether folks appreciate just how limited your access is IMO.

Hopefully you will luck out at the hardware store this morning, and find the right tools for the job.

Good luck,

Peter

PS -- Because you started this thread, feel free to open the door for a discussion of attaching photos. [hot link in blue] This can be challenging the first time, but once you get the hang of it, it goes very quickly, and vastly improves the quality of the communication here IMO.

"A picture is worth . . . "

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by SilverLife

I've been in some very tight spaces with only a drill to get me out. This is what will do the trick:
. . .

Good suggestions . . . wondering, however, if he has room for these:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013UBXU3E...=ATVPDKIKX0DER
https://www.amazon.com/Senrob-Center...759103&sr=8-15

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, seems like you could use the hole in the hinge to help guide your drill or self drilling screw.

Originally Posted by kbmwrs

the laminate prevents this without good pressure and the lack of access to do that is the problem.

Originally Posted by SilverLife

. . .
. . . For drilling a hole perfectly centered on a hinge screw opening:
. . .

Including the drill itself, and room to line up these bits with the hinge holes inside the cabinet, access may be too limited IMO.

Peter

[coasttocoast]

What are the dimensions of the space you are working in? The angle drill attachment might take up the least amount of space. A sharp bit should be able to penetrate the laminate. Cutting the bit in half might give you the extra room but still allow it to do the job. A Dremel tool also comes to mind for tight quarters.

[kbmwrs]

Lets see if pic works


It does. So this is a pic of the top hinge on the right side door under the round sink. You can see that the hinge has ONE screw holding it. I thought I could just attach another screw where one is missing. NOPE. There is not even a hole where a previous screw would have been.
Since there is no hole there to begin with a screw will not dig into the wall....being that the wall is laminated a screw won't dig in.
What makes things difficult is that the sink is only 4 inches from this. So getting a drill in there with pressure isn't possible.

So I KNOW where to put a hole. That's not the problem. Its drilling in such a tight area. I'll look into that 90 degree drill....may be the answer.

[OTRA15]

Excellent thanks!

Originally Posted by kbmwrs

Lets see if pic works
. . .
What makes things difficult is that the sink is only 4 inches from this. So getting a drill in there with pressure isn't possible.
. . .

As appeared to be the case, judging from your earlier posts IMO.

Just use a fine felt-tip marker in the curved end of that open slot for the new screw, to mark most of the circle available inside that slot, and then remove the hinge IMO. Previous posts contain suggestions for using duct tape, a sharp small paring knife, and other various tools, to get started IMO.

The correct size diameter pilot hole will work perfectly well in the plywood casework for that cabinet -- neither too small nor too large. Drill sample pilot holes in a separate piece of similar plywood [Baltic Birch, Maple, or other veneer-core -- TBD], to see if your new screws "hold" well, without binding in the plywood. When you use a pan-head sheet metal screw for this, its thread is sharp enough to "self tap" the receiving plywood for a solid "hold."
-- Guessing you will be needing either a #6 or #8 x 3/4" (~ 5/8" under the screw head) stainless steel pan-head screw for this +/- .
-- Does not have to be SS -- regular steel is OK if not getting wet, plus the stainless is softer and easier to damage when you insert the screw.

Would also suggest removing any other similar screws to make sure that their pilot holes ares sized correctly. Often the factory workers do not take the proper amount of time to pay attention to small details like, as you have noted in general.
-- One missing pilot hole, and one missing screw, appear to be just the tip of the iceberg here as to "quality control" IMO.



Have fun!

Peter

[callmedave]

[QUOTE=kbmwrs;2509228]2016 International FB 25'

"…This is very tight quarters (can't get even a small hand drill in there) and the surface is laminated. Can't get a screw started or even a drill bit...it slides on the laminate. No room for a punch either…"


In my cabinet work I use a variation of these two items:

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by callmedave

. . .
. . . In my cabinet work I use a variation of these two items.
. . .

With only 4" of clearance?

Originally Posted by kbmwrs

. . .
. . . What makes things difficult is that the sink is only 4 inches from this. So getting a drill in there with pressure isn't possible.
. . .

Earlier posts cover this "tight quarters" situation in more detail IMO.

Peter

[OTRA15]

PS --

Originally Posted by kbmwrs

Lets see if pic works
. . .

If you could post a photo taken from in front of the cabinet, showing that same hinge base plate, and the nearby sink 4" away [and presumably hanging down quite a bit], that might help others "see" the situation IMO.

Thanks,

Peter

[callmedave]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

With only 4" of clearance?



Earlier posts cover this "tight quarters" situation in more detail IMO.

Peter

__________________________________________________ _____
Sure thing, I encounter this a lot. The right angle attachment is chucked into standard corded or battery powered drill. The head is 1 ½"(as shown), the 3/32" bit is about 1 ⅞". Overall is 3 ⅝", <4". There are also #2 phillips-head driver bits that are ~1 ½" or lesscwhen chucked in the RA adaptor, so there is also <4"clearance. So, yes this will and does work.
Dave

[NO NOIZE]

This is what I use:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgupY2z5v_4

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by callmedave

. . .
. . . Sure thing, I encounter this a lot.
. . .
So, yes this will and does work.
Dave

Thanks Dave.

Peter

PS and thank you NO NOIZE.