In the market, need advice

[Brav]

Hello All,

We have been shopping and renting travel trailers for the last 6 months or so, and finally have come to the realization that 1. Airstream is probably what we really want/need and 2. Airstream is $$$! After seeing new ones in person, there is no way I can go back to the idea of a fiberglass box..

Anyhow, we really love boondocking, and probably more extreme than what most would use their AS for. Bushes, branches, ruts, mud, and other off-road gauntlets are what we are used to and usually aim for, in order to avoid any campsite whatsoever. And This is usually occurring in higher elevation Forest around So Cal, hopefully abroad as time allows. I am really concerned most with ground clearance, and not scratching the aluminum much. I know I can raise the axles a bit and run larger ti While we were considering 19-22ft fiberglass box models, most ended up actually being 25-27 feet long overall. I really love the Int Sig 25FB aside from sticker shock., and its still under 26' overall. I am just afraid it may be still too long to maneuver in tight spaces or up and down embankments. We were going for a 23, but in person, there is such a big improvement with the 25 space-wise. Don't care much for the dinette layout in the 23FB. The 23D, well, at 6'4 I just don't fit in the bed.

I am just curious if anyone else has had the same concerns or experiences as we have, and if there are any regrets or praise to be learned from? Has anyone else pained over a 23 and 25 foot model? We plan to tow with a Silverado at first, until we get our hands on a Diesel Grand Cherokee.

Also, is the dealer a good place to have solar installed during the purchase (aka negotiating power)?

Thanks!

[TG Twinkie]

There are trailers specifically designed for rough off road use. An A$ is not one of them.
At the length you desire. There are places on city streets you would want to avoid. ie gas station approaches, crossing intersections with deep water control systems.
If you bang the rear of the coach hard enough. You will cause significant and costly damage. Due to the light weight frames. High centering is another issue. Because the propane lines are exposed below the belly pan.
The twisting and twirling required to travel on back roads will surely pop both exterior and interior rivets.
Scratching the skin is another expense. Either in resale value or repair bills.
From your definition of travel requirements. I would recommend not getting an A$. Especially a new one.
I tow a 26' footer, so have experience. While I haven't drug bottom, I can tell you it wouldn't take much to make it happen.


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[BAB]

I'm not sure you are looking for an Airstream. Google 'Kimberley Karavan"....this unit is made in Australia specifically for what is sounds like you want to do. I saw one of these this past summer in Sedona. Very expensive, but it goes anywhere your TV can go. Completely self-contained, all custom made and perfect for off-road. If you are really planning to go "up and down embankments" then I would not recommend an Airstream. They are awesome travel trailers, but if you're fearful of a scratch from a tree branch with what you plan to do, then you're going to need a large supply of replacement panels and the ability to do some serious riveting. Bringing a scratched panel or a dent back to factory original is virtually impossible, IMHO.

[Brav]

BAB & TG, maybe I should clarify what I mean by off-road. I think I have seen what you are talking about. I have looked at actual off-road trailers, but most are very small and are more like a packaged tent. I know some general boxes come with greater clearance with axle positioning. But those excursion type units which are made for jeeps/rock crawling is not what our intentions are. I wont be aiming for huge hills, sand traps and boulders.. but may come near them. I will be somewhere in between, on a level surface somewhere. We usually are taking dirt/forest service roads, and pull off 30-100 feet from one of those roads. Not trekking the unknown. I would like to have both types of trailers, but not in the cards! We just want to be in solitude.

So you are saying that light damage can be quite costly/unsightly, from what I gather. I suspect I will just have to be more cautious and mindful of where we go. I dont think I will be smashing into shrubs, but may get the occasional tickle from a branch here or there. So the clear coat is pretty delicate? I have been able to buff out many brush scratches from my TV paint, assuming it doesn't penetrate to the paint and stays in the clear.

My guess is that the AS probably handles a little better on dirt roads with independent suspension.

[TwoSporks]

Hello... We bought a 2011 25FB Flying Cloud in late summer and have spent about 5 weeks in it so far. I do not have the depth of experience that other members have but can tell you about our own conclusions. Over the last three years, we traveled extensively in our SUV and in Iceland, spending probably about 350 to 400 nights on the road during that time. We wild camped for all but about two weeks of that time (in Kauai, for example, where we started camping in a campground and then the crowing roosters drove us into a hotel). Anyway, we like to camp in similar places as you describe above but in getting an Airstream, we decided we would give up some of that flexibility in getting to remote places to be able to work from the road now that we are both back to working full-time. In getting an Airstream, you might have to make some of the same trade-offs, knowing that you might lose the ability to camp in remote/difficult to reach areas but will increase your comfort, possibly be able to stay out for longer, and still be able to stay away from campgrounds in many places.

We debated the 23D, 25FB, and 27FB endlessly and settled on the 25FB. I think the 27' floorplan would be perfect for our needs if we did not have to drive the trailer around. The space around the bed would be the biggest advantage, as the bedroom of the 25FB is the only thing I dislike about the trailer's layout. I also would like the extra kitchen space in the 27. Otherwise, the 25FB seems to work well for us. We also have more than enough storage in the 25 for our needs. Because we have our two cats along, having a distinct bedroom space for their box and a space for them to hide away is important and we did not see any options for that arrangement on the 23. The bigger tanks is also an advantage for the 25 if you are planning to wild camp a lot.

We pull the 25FB with a Silverado 1500 with the max trailering package and a Pro-Pride hitch. We have driven this set-up in very windy conditions and on snowy roads, with everything working well and feeling like a safe, solid set-up.

After our negative experience with a dealer, including the less that careful service work, I would not have a dealer install a solar system. We have been researching solar and think the complexity demands a specialist who knows what they are doing, especially for a system designed for extensive boondocking. We have considered AM Solar but can't quite afford their price at this time. They have a good reputation and good resources on their site.

Cheers,
Sarah

[robwok]

Not to steer you away from Airstream, but I think you'd be better off with a fiberglass camper like the scamps. I think they can take the abuse you're talking about with still the lightweight and rounded interior. You may be able to customize them a bit. A scamp painted red with the coca cola swash would look great. I think they would also be more easily repaired as you can repair fiberglass from the outside for a gash or dent as opposed to an Aluminum dent or gouge. I would suggest getting your flex solar panels off Amazon, and your charge controller from Randy at bestconverter.com

Rob

[Brav]

Thank you Sarah! Exactly what I wanted to hear. The 25FB bedroom suits us fine. The 23D, no way. We will have a small Cairn Terrier with us, 15 lbs. Thankfully he is a great traveler.

I think by getting the AS and making small sacrifices in not reaching 10% of the places we would like to, we will still have an overall better experience than with something I could "beat up" more.

Thanks for your input Rob. I still feel making sacrifices will allow us to safely travel with the AS.. So far I have had no major issues at all with damage or getting stuck, except for bending a terribly-placed level jack on a 30' rig.

[dkottum]

Airstreams and their associated hitching hardware limit them to quite level surfaces, and the delicate finish and aluminum shell will do poorly up against brush and rocks.

You might look at old models, the type without any finish and consider a refurbish or rebuild to your needs. They often come pre-dented and pre-scratched so a (labor intensive) polishing of the aluminum makes them look quite nice.

Many (including us) use our Airstream as a base camp for exploring the back country. Really nice to spend a day or whatever in the outback and come back to a hot shower and the comforts of home.

[B00merang]

Brav
Don't get too discouraged by all our well-meaning responses. I'm not sure how many you have in your typical travel/camping party, but the three of us have had a great time pulling our 20ft FC down some gnarly backroads and forest trails here in Idaho to camp in BLM and Forest Service backcountry since I bought my AS 4 years ago. "Daisy" has enough clearance to get through much of the slop/shallow streams etc. we encounter, you just have to make sure you have a place to turn around at the end, and drive slow. Yep, you get some scratches in the skin, and maybe even an (admittedly expensive to fix) ding, but my single axle Daisy does the job. I love the size of the kitchen and large bed (I'm 6'6"), so maybe take a look at this model. jon

[Lumatic]

It's worth mentioning the caravans of the Wally days. They pulled those AS's where no trailer has gone before. I had the privilege of owning a 62 Ambassador that was on the Around the World Tour. It had a whole 2nd chassis welded to the bottom in Bombay for the "nearly impassable" roads of Afghanistan as well as every system having a redundant backup. It is still around 50 years later!

Granted at that time there was not a specific market for bush trailers.

[Ahab]

Like Boomerang we've been boondocking in some unconventional forest areas. Our 22' SS has 8.5" of clearance as does our TV. Been doing it for 7 years now since new. Got a few minor dings but we still love it. This picture was taken 23 miles down a forest trail.

[TG Twinkie]

20' maybe 22'. 26' is a whole different animal. There are plenty of threads here that cover how delicate the frame is on an A$. Especially the longer units. Damage has been done by simply putting a jack in the wrong place. There a folks who recommend not traveling with the holding tanks full on the older models where the tanks are located behind the axle(s). Or using the stabilizers to level the coach.
Take a look at the "Escape". I believe they have independent suspension if that is a requirement.
The other option is to find a "beater". Which has scratches and dings. Fix what needs to be fixed. And go camping.


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[SSquared]

We have a 25FB Flying Cloud and like it. We sometimes go out 4-12 weeks at a time; we would have gone with a smaller one for short trips.

Have you considered the 22 Sport Airstream? I believe it is narrower than other current models, and the bed is large (though one person does have to crawl over the other).

Keep in mind, the larger the trailer, the harder it is to wash up....last time out, we drove 18 miles of forest roads to get back to pavement, during heavy rain. I spent a day cleaning the exterior when I got home.

I agree with the previous poster that fiberglass trailers like Scamp, Casita, and Bigfoot are more suited for bashing around in the bush. The Scamp "custom deluxe" interiors are really quite nice (we have a 13' Scamp c.d. we use for short getaways to places the Airstream won't fit).

About solar: The factory solar option is not a good value. Dealers will offer to install the same system, at a similar price. Some dealers will also offer to install a better system, at a better-value price. The thing is, it all depends on the competency of the dealer. Some do not do a good job, or don't select a sensible combination of components (for example, using wire sized to not start a fire, but the wire allows too much loss). We had an independent Solar RV specialist install 435 watts of solar on our Airstream. I'd recommend finding a good solar specialist, unless you get real good references about your dealer (I know nothing about the dealers in your area).

[RMichler]

Tell me more about the litter box situation, I have a 25' front bed and will be traveling with two unhappy cats.

[AWCHIEF]

I keep the cat box in the shower. Makes for easy clean up of any spills. Simply remove and sit on the toilet when I take a shower. Food and water sit on floor by the rear sink.

[Brav]

Thank you all for the advice. In the beginning I was after a 19-23 footer. Looked at the Sports, just cant get away from International decor. It might serve us better for our shorter trips and be slightly more maneuverable, but I still cant get over how nice the 2015 25's are.. We intend to eventually full time it, as much as possible, and I think it would be much more livable. Another stip was to be able to occasionally invite another couple to (relatively comfortably) join us.

Local new dealership in Orange County, CA has been very knowledgable and helpful so far, and I think we should be able go get a great price on their 25 rear bedroom.. They also have a 25FB, cant really decide if I can tell a real difference between the two except for the view when I wake up.

[Foiled Again]

One more voice - Olivertraveltrailers.com
This is one versatile trailer. Not cheap except when compared to an Airstream. Really sturdy, really insulated for good boondocking in all weather. The interior? Also mainly fiberglass - perhaps a bit cold, but easy to clean up, built for a muddy environment. Bathroom - stick to your diet, it's small!

What you should know is that there are lots of people who own an "Airstream" and a "Sparestream".... Why not an Airstream and an Oliver for the deep dark woods?

Oh, and I fulltime as a single person in a 25 FB Eddie Bauer. If I had a hubby I would DEFINITELY go to a 27 footer. Who crawls over whom to take a 2:00 AM potty break could end in disaster with the sideways queen. Now THAT would put a strain on a marriage!

I've said it so many times - buying a new Airstream for your first one is just plain foolish. Many Many Many people decide after a short while that trailering isn't for them, a few unfortunately buy then have a serious health problem that precludes further travel and sell, and quite a few realize that they made the wrong choice and move to a different model (usually a bigger one). I saved tuition to Harvard for a semester by buying a one year old Eddie Bauer. Honestly I don't think the first owner EVER took it out of his yard.

Paula

[Brav]

Thanks Paula. In a perfect world, I would indeed have 2 trailers. I always believed in having the right tool for the job. But I don't have the space and Probably the budget. I have a decent amount of experience.. been renting them frequently to determine what we like and don't. So our single trailer is a compromise of sorts, and I have already bumped from 23 to 25. Could argue, what's another 2 feet... But I feel we can navigate around the bed reasonably. We are both in early 30s and don't anticipate mobility or health issues for a little while.. trailering is definitely for us. Already some of our favorite memories.

Maybe you are right. I just really like the 2015 w central AC. I haven't found any slightly used ones nearby that were any significant of savings. Advice taken. Will keep an eye out for used as well.

[dkottum]

There is a recent thread discussing the differences of 25RB and 25FB, starting with a video explanation.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f206...fb-128246.html

[SCOTTinNJ]

If you are boondocking a lot note that the 25 rear bedroom has a propane stove and microwave whereas the 25 front bedroom only has the microwave. You can't cook in the microwave out in the boonies unless you bring a suitable generator.

We use our stove a lot and the microwave . . . not so much.

To be sure they both have the cooktop burners if that's all you need.