Shaving weight: Can I strip a 2010 Bambi to 2,000 lbs?

[amm3824]

Originally Posted by Bigventure

You could redo all the cabnets. Make them like the old trailers, out of 1/4 luan plywood.

The cabinets seem to have strong potential for weight savings, especially if you consider open wireframe design. The downside is that open wireframe won't contain the contents very well as contents shift during travel time. But weight savings could be big.

[amm3824]

I should clarify: getting rid of current 2010 16' International, in favor of something lighter etc., is not an option. Sold an Airstream before (and tow rig for that matter) and regret doing both. Very grateful for what I have now, so this 16 footer stays. Airstream buying days are over.

[amm3824]

Originally Posted by perryg114

Get a 4x4 truck with a light weight pop up slide in. You can't get more portable than that. You could also pull something behind that like your jeep if you must take it with you or a boat or motorcycle. I think you need a different platform than a modern Airstream. There is a company that makes small all aluminum trailers. I am not sure what the total weight is though.

Perry

Good thought, and I see the value in the slide-in, but no, the Airstream stays. I can't help it. It's what I love. I need to work within these parameters. If it means keeping current TV in the end, fine.

[andreasduess]

Originally Posted by amm3824

Target tow rig is a Jeep JK 2-door with 2,000 lbs rating and 3.6L Pentastar motor. Current TV is a 4-door JKU is 3,500 rating with 3.6L Pentastar. Big improvement over the previous 3.8L (I towed the same 16' Bambi with that). Currently using a weight-distributing hitch (Reese) which, especially on the Jeep, is a must-have and I will never again tow the Bambi without it.

Not trying to start another towing thread, but your Jeep could potentially do just fine without you having to drastically reduce the weight of your trailer.

[amm3824]

Originally Posted by andreasduess

Not trying to start another towing thread, but your Jeep could potentially do just fine without you having to drastically reduce the weight of your trailer.

The current (4-door) does well enough for the unmodified 16' International - I've taken it out a couple times and it's fine for my typical range, terrain and driving style. It's no Dodge Ram turbo diesel, but it does well. And compared to the previous 3.8L, the 3.6L Pentastar makes the difference. Been there, done both, etc.

Bottom line is that if I move to 2-door, for safety, legal and insurance reasons I'd like to try to keep it within the 2,000 lbs. rating, and I'm just wondering what it would take to get there. I'm confident that for my typical outings with my setup (2010 16', Reese weight distributing hitch) I could drive the 2-door Jeep configuration safely enough, but that won't mean squat if someone else causes a crash. I'd rather play it safe and be within the rating, if possible. It may not be.

[Kevin245]

Originally Posted by amm3824

What it comes down to is that I LOVE what I have and I'm very lucky to have it, and it's here to stay. I just want to see if it's possible to mate it to a tow vehicle that I love just as passionately. If you understand the love for your Airstream, you understand my love for the tow vehicle. Now imagine the two together.

Very well stated and we look forward to following your efforts. It is creativity that leads to successful results. Keep us posted.

Kevin

[truckasaurus]

Lithium ion battery, lighter wheels.

Thinking about it would you even be required to keep brakes on a 2000 lb trailer?

[Andrew T]

Over the years we have set up many 2 door Wrangler's TJ's etc. They have a short wheelbase but also a very short overhang so they tow much better than you might think. Tire size and type is somewhat critical, there are some good LT off road tires that can work.

If you change to a welded ball mount, which keeps the ball much closer to the back axle you can actually have a similar overhang to wheelbase ratio to your 4 door. This involves removing the rear mounted spare or relocating the LP tanks and jack post which is fairly simple to do.

One customer who did advanced soil testing for mining operations towed with a TJ and then a 2 door wrangler for years making dozens of trips back and forth across Canada in all kinds of weather on logging and mining roads etc.

From a power perspective there is really nothing to gain from lightening your Bambi, I cannot think of any vehicle that will pull one through the air that won't easily handle the weight. From a handling and safety perspective at 2000 pounds you will find it tends to get tossed around in the wind a great deal more than it does now. The suspension will be too stiff so your tires will be off the road etc.

The 2000 Pound number is not legally referenced anywhere. We have a lot of customers who work in the insurance industry, are police officers etc. who tow well beyond their tow ratings. Actually a customer who before he retired did the engineering approvals for specialty trucks in Ontario tows his 28' trailer with a Honda Odyssey.

I hope this helps.

Andrew T

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by truckasaurus

Thinking about it would you even be required to keep brakes on a 2000 lb trailer?

That varies by the state in which it's registered. Some states require trailer brakes on all trailers over 1500 pounds.

[overlander63]

You can remove one battery, both 30# LP tanks, replace with a single 20 pound tank and non-auto changeover regulator, and leave the stainless tank cover off. That will save about a hundred pounds while not affecting the trailer. Off-grid time will suffer slightly, but you don't use many of the LP items. Replace the light bulbs with LEDs to compensate for the missing battery.

[Andrew T]

Actually 16's have 20 lb tanks and one battery standard, However if you could remove 100 pounds of hitch weight it would reduce the stability of a 16.

[Bill M.]

Even if you get it below 2000 lbs the placard on the trailer is going to still say the original weight. I think you are sorta jousting with a strawman in this quest.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

Even if you get it below 2000 lbs the placard on the trailer is going to still say the original weight. I think you are sorta jousting with a strawman in this quest.

Make that "windmill" instead of "strawman" and you've just named his trailer. Don Quixote.

[Jim Flower]

I dragged a 3000 lb boat all over Western Canada, including several trips to Horseshoe Bay, with my 1997 TJ 4L. The new Jeeps are better. The Jeep had an auto trans and the only modification was the addition of a True Cool auto trans cooler. The Jeep performed flawlessly. With the addition of a load equalizing hitch, an auto Trans cooler, and a brake controller, you will be able to tow your Bambi without issue. Of course, you will have to put up with the "you can't tow that with that" folks, but you will most likely not run into them at the trailhead. I would not mess with your Bambi. It just is not necessary. Jim

[ggoat!!!]

Andy is right.

The only difference between the tow ratings on the 4 door Wrangler vs. the 2 door Wrangler is the wheelbase. Everything else in the drive train is EXACTLY the same.

That's IT.

HOWEVER...

As stated on this forum and in literally THOUSANDS of posts on the Jeep forums, the Pentastar in the Jeep runs UNBELIEVABLY hot. The Pentastar already has a problem in that they run hot enough to burn the valve seats, usually on the driver's side, due to the integrated exhaust manifolds built into the heads. There have been thousands of failures in all of Chrysler's vehicles, but NONE to the extent of the failures of the same engine noted in the Wranglers. That is because these engines run MUCH, MUCH hotter in the Wranglers by design, and this heat just destroys the valve seats. Chrysler has "fixed" the problem several times now with new head designs, but the problem STILL exists...and Chrysler blames it on ridiculous things such as "driver conditions" and "bad gas." Just silly. The Pentastar in even the 2 door JK runs at almost 230 just driving around town, and with the transmission bolted right to this engine, the tranny gets SUPER HOT. Prior to 2012, this was a problem with tranny failures in the Wrangler. In 2012 Chrysler's fix wasn't to address the massively hot engine bay and its effects on the transmission, but they added a small transmission cooler-something that is IMPERATIVE to run on a current Wrangler. People's Jeep transmissions were overheating any time they ran them in 4H. If you tow with a Pentastar'd Jeep, you MUST put on the BIGGEST transmission cooler you can find; the factory one is just barely adequate to cool itself, let alone pulling a trailer. And, take the factory engine cover OFF; all it does is hold massive heat on the engine.

In addition to my Airstream, I also have a 13ft Scamp Deluxe with all oak interior which weighs 2480lbs. I was contemplating a 2dr Wranger JK for pulling the Scamp in areas I didn't want to take my SSR and Airstream. My parents have a 2012 Wrangler JK, and I test-pulled the Scamp with it last summer down here in Louisiana; flat land, upper 90 degrees and 90% humidity out, and the engine fan on the Wrangler NEVER went off; sounded like a locomotive under the hood. Engine temps were in the 240's just driving around town and on the interstate; the hood was hot to the touch. The transmission didn't boil, but the transmission temps were in the 220's!!! BTW, don't trust the dash gauges; they are glorified idiot lights. When that temperature gauge is going over 1/2 (which is common on the Wrangler), it is REALLY hot. Get a bluetooth OBDII adapter from Amazon and download "Torque" for your Android phone; you can customize a plethora of gauges from your car's OBD system and monitor actual temps (and a host of anything imaginable) on your phone; the "Torque" app is free, and you can see how your engine is REALLY running...one of the things that flabbergasted me on the Jeep was that the air intake temperature was nearly 200 degrees!!! This is supposed to be the FRESH AIR entering the air filter...THAT'S how HOT it is under the hood of a Jeep. I installed a Banks cold air intake on my parents' Jeep for Christmas...very nice power gains, sound, but most importantly it dropped those air intake temps considerably, which was the purpose of purchasing it.

I've extensively researched the Jeep Wrangler for towing as well as the Pentastar in general. I'm not saying it's not doable, but I AM saying things should be done to make it work...

Here is a good place to start regarding the Pentastar failures in the Jeeps...prepared for a couple days reading on this thread alone...I think it's up to about 200 pages now of Pentastar failures in the Wrangler:

Update on ticking Pentastar..new head... - Jeep Wrangler Forum

Before you do anything...put the BIGGEST transmission cooler on that thing you can find...take off that engine cover...add some water wetter...and get Torque to monitor just how hot that engine is getting.

For the record, I never did buy a Jeep to tow my Scamp...for the obvious reasons.

Hope this helps!
Jeff

[Jim Flower]

Jeepers. I guess I will have a little crow for dinner. (Again) The old inline six is looking pretty good now. Jim

[AldeanFan]

I can respect the Jeep love, my father has a 2010 JK and I've never seen him love a vehicle so much. We used it to tow our 13' Trillium to New Hampshire for the Nascar race a few years ago.


Check out drag racing forums for tips on lightening vehicles.


My racecar friends can strip an unbelievable amount of weight off of a car.


I'm thinking lexan windows, aluminum floor, no bumper, no spare tire, no carpet, lightweight cabinets, replace fiberglass insulation with lightweight foam, aluminum frame furniture.


Get creative!
The wiring harness in a Camaro weighs something like 40 pounds and for drag racing you only need about 3 wires to run the engine, and 4 for gauges.

[vinstream]

Dare I say.... Why not sell your new trailer, buy a vintage trailer?!

[mutcth]

Something else to consider - a big source of the added weight in this Bambi are the pair of panoramic windows, something the owner really likes.

I just helped a friend research and buy a 16' International. Those trailers hold their value incredibly well. Gutting one to get it under 2,000 pounds - loaded with camping gear - not only seems improbable, but will also really hurt resale value.

Hope you can sort out a balance of tow vehicle and trailer that makes you happy.

Tom

[amm3824]

Originally Posted by ggoat!!!

As stated on this forum and in literally THOUSANDS of posts on the Jeep forums, the Pentastar in the Jeep runs UNBELIEVABLY hot.
...

In 2012 Chrysler's fix wasn't to address the massively hot engine bay and its effects on the transmission, but they added a small transmission cooler-something that is IMPERATIVE to run on a current Wrangler.

I wasn't aware of this. I'll do some reading. I assume the transmission cooler "fix" applies to only the autos, not the manual? I had heard about the ticking problem but when I was reading up on it, the belief was that it was due to bad milling on the head and I had read no reports on it after Chrysler's supposed fix.

Originally Posted by ggoat!!!

And, take the factory engine cover OFF; all it does is hold massive heat on the engine.

I did that on day one. I want to be able to see and access the engine bay, not cover it up with some decorative nonsense (which traps heat).

Thanks for the tip on the OBDII & Torque app, and the air intake info. I will definitely plan on a temp monitor of some sort, towing or not.