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06-22-2022, 10:42 PM
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#1
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2 Rivet Member
2024 30' Classic
Boise
, Idaho
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 78
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Loosening lug nuts
I have a 2022 30ft FBB with dual axle aluminum rims. Specs say to tighten the lug nuts to 110 ft/lbs and to do so every 25 miles for the first 100 miles and then every 500 miles, etc.
I did all that and now have about 3,000 miles on the trailer. The problem is that at every stop for gas, I go and check the torque. On the left side everything is perfect. On the right side, I always have 1-2 nuts on each wheel which have loosened. It seems to always be the same nuts. They aren't loose per se, but they do move about 1/8 of a turn when I reapply the 110 ft/lbs.
I did go to 125 ft/lbs on these nuts (just to see if it helps), but they loosened as well after about 150 miles.
The trailer tracks perfectly, I don't see unusual tire tread wear or any other signs of problems. Can anyone theorize on why this is happening? And is it cause for concern?
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06-23-2022, 04:31 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2019 30' International
Pennsylvania
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,243
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I'd stick with 110 psi. I'd continue to check them and torque them tight as needed. I think the issue will resolve over time.
In fact, I check mine on a regular basis even after thousands of miles.
__________________
If you ain't havin' fun you ain't doin' it right
2017 Ford CCSB F250 XLT 6.2L Gas 4x4 4:30 rear Leer Topper Ruby Red
2019 International Serenity 30 Rear Twin
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06-23-2022, 04:43 AM
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#3
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Site Team
1994 25' Excella
Waukesha
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 5,582
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Might be a good idea to inspect the lug nuts, the wheels, and the studs.
Any type of a deformity which interferes with the lug nuts making full contact around the hole in the wheel can affect the ability of the lug nut to stay put. Also check for any type of damage to the threads or contamination from oil/grease.
__________________
Richard
11018
1994 Excella 25 Follow the build on Gertie!
1999 Suburban LS 2500 w/7.4L V8
1974 GMC 4108a - Custom Coach Land Cruiser (Sold)
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06-23-2022, 04:44 AM
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#4
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Site Team
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere
, South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,436
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mbronto,
Might be interesting to pull that wheel and inspect the cone of the lug nuts, wheel cone and threads for signs of what's that syndrome. Might want to do a temp mark of lug nut to wheel for this went with that one for inspection purposes.
I've seen on fleet vehicles a lug nut flag that shows where it was pointing and here's where it is now. Not saying do same but can you make a sharpie ref mark and watch position.
Sounds like you're being observant.
Gary
Rich, you beat me by 1 minute!
__________________
S/OS #001 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Dexter 4 Piston Disc Brakes, Carslile Actuator, Equal-I-Zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook. BMV-712. DEMCO 21K Lb Cast Iron coupler
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06-23-2022, 05:33 AM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2014 25' Flying Cloud
Cuddebackville
, New York
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
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I've always torqued to 125 (per an email from the Mothership) and always re-torque at 50 miles. Frequently some need to be snugged up. I check again after another 50 or so they are always fine. Something is amiss on yours. Do what Richard says.
__________________
2014 25' Flying Cloud Rear Twin
2019 Ford Expedition Platinum
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06-23-2022, 06:53 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Evergreen
, Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,592
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I torque mine to 110 lb/ft. I haven’t seen anything about 125 lb/ft. I also check mine after the first 50 miles or so and there are usually a few that need to be tightened. Once that is done, I periodically check them and rarely find anything loose.
__________________
Dennis
Past:
Airstream International Serenity 23FB
Newmar Ventana 3715
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06-23-2022, 07:00 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2019 25' Flying Cloud
Houston
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,013
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I would put a straight edge on the inner mounting surface of the wheel to make sure that part of the wheel is not bent. I would also take the wheel to a tire shop to put it on a spin balancer and ask them to make sure the whole wheel is true.
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06-23-2022, 08:03 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2019 25' Flying Cloud
Houston
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCPAS
I would put a straight edge on the inner mounting surface of the wheel to make sure that part of the wheel is not bent. I would also take the wheel to a tire shop to put it on a spin balancer and ask them to make sure the whole wheel is true.
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Thinking about this a bit more, I would also put the straightedge on the hub mounting surface.
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06-23-2022, 10:35 AM
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#9
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4 Rivet Member
1976 Argosy 24
1961 28' Ambassador
1968 26' Overlander
Lakewood
, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 409
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45 year mechanic here, wheel on the balancer-good idea. For the hub face you really want a dial indicator to measure runout of the face. Yes, inspect all parts and make sure all sufaces are clean. Crazy thought, perhaps 1 or 2 of the lug bolts were not fully seated when installed. Your torqued nuts are trying to finish that job. We often replaced damaged lug bolts by driving out the old and pulling a new one into place with a nut. Interestingly, we never asked customers to come back to check their wheel torque, but also, maybe we never knew. The quality of almost all machine parts is questionable these days. Keep in mind, one of the biggest reasons for proper wheel torque is to provide even stress on all parts, especially brake discs if you have disc brakes. Not quite as critical on drums but still important.
Good luck, Mark D
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06-23-2022, 12:45 PM
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#10
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Escape Pod II
2022 23' Flying Cloud
2018 22' Sport
Orange
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 779
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Another seasoned mechanic here. One of the reasons to torque a bolt is to not overtighten it. In the 70's when I worked at a VW dealership, we were getting a lot of warped drums in the shop and VW sent out a bulletin to start torqueing the lug bolts. 75lbs on 5 lug wheels and 95lbs on the 4 lug ones. 110 on AS is higher than what Dexter recommends but then again most charts say 90-120lbs on a 1/2"x 20 nut. Personally, I use 100# and use never seize on the threads ONLY, but that's another can of worms. A bolt stretches when you torque it properly.
__________________
JEWare
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06-23-2022, 12:50 PM
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#11
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4 Rivet Member
Little falls
, New York
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 457
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I’m no mechanic, but I’ve worked with a bunch over the years. These are the guys you want to listen to. The invisible guys who keep it all moving! Mad respect.
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06-23-2022, 01:05 PM
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#12
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Site Team
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere
, South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ware
Personally, I use 100# and use never seize on the threads ONLY, but that's another can of worms.
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John Ware,
Please provide a manufacturers service manual citation for your recommendation to USE never seize, grease or oil on conical seat lug nuts. This is conical lug nuts only, not the two piece flat face design used on dual real wheel applications.
I searched my 2007 Airstream manual and found no recommendation to use any lubricant on lug nut threads.
This is a clip from a 2005 Dodge Ram pick up FSM page 22-12.
"Never use oil or grease on studs or nuts."
Regards,
Gary
__________________
S/OS #001 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Dexter 4 Piston Disc Brakes, Carslile Actuator, Equal-I-Zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook. BMV-712. DEMCO 21K Lb Cast Iron coupler
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06-23-2022, 01:20 PM
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#13
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Site Team
1994 25' Excella
Waukesha
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 5,582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCinSC2
John Ware,
Please provide a manufacturers service manual citation for your recommendation to USE never seize, grease or oil on conical seat lug nuts. This is conical lug nuts only, not the two piece flat face design used on dual real wheel applications.
I searched my 2007 Airstream manual and found no recommendation to use any lubricant on lug nut threads.
This is a clip from a 2005 Dodge Ram pick up FSM page 22-12.
"Never use oil or grease on studs or nuts."
Regards,
Gary
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Highly controversial subject. On a forum in the bus conversion world there has been an ongoing debate about this for a few months now, with people adamantly in favor of their own opinion.
The truth is, in parts of the country where road salt is used, this is a common practice in spite of manuals and manufacturers recommendations to the contrary. Just a few months of travel on salted roads can make lug nuts extremely difficult to remove without large power tools. Here is Wisconsin, the mechanic (with 40+ years' of experience) who worked on my bus always used anti seize when putting on lug nuts. There are others who would never do that citing manufacturer's recommendations.
That said, I'd think that very few of us are pulling out trailers anywhere near road salt, at least if we can help it. The only possible situation where this could be needed IMO is trailers seeing life near the ocean where corrosion is a real thing.
__________________
Richard
11018
1994 Excella 25 Follow the build on Gertie!
1999 Suburban LS 2500 w/7.4L V8
1974 GMC 4108a - Custom Coach Land Cruiser (Sold)
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06-23-2022, 01:34 PM
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#14
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Site Team
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere
, South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,436
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Richard,
My Dodge FSM applies to the entire US market including the rust belt (lived there) and everywhere else in-between. And we're only interested in Airstreams. Class 8 trucks, OTR busses and farm equipment is not a part of this discussion.
Airstream manual stating apply XXX type of lube on conical lug nuts?
Automotive factory service manual citations to apply lube on conical lug nuts anyone?
Gary
__________________
S/OS #001 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Dexter 4 Piston Disc Brakes, Carslile Actuator, Equal-I-Zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook. BMV-712. DEMCO 21K Lb Cast Iron coupler
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06-23-2022, 01:37 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
2014 25' Flying Cloud
Cuddebackville
, New York
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis C
I torque mine to 110 lb/ft. I haven’t seen anything about 125 lb/ft.
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I should clarify I have 16" wheels.
__________________
2014 25' Flying Cloud Rear Twin
2019 Ford Expedition Platinum
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06-23-2022, 01:40 PM
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#16
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4 Rivet Member
Little falls
, New York
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 457
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Next up…the grammar police…
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCinSC2
Richard,
My Dodge FSM applies to the entire US market including the rust belt (lived there) and everywhere else in-between. And we're only interested in Airstreams. Class 8 trucks, OTR busses and farm equipment is not a part of this discussion.
Airstream manual stating apply XXX type of lube on conical lug nuts?
Automotive factory service manual citations to apply lube on conical lug nuts anyone?
Gary
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06-23-2022, 02:02 PM
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#17
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Escape Pod II
2022 23' Flying Cloud
2018 22' Sport
Orange
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 779
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As I said, "another can of worms" and I use it on my personal stuff and only on the threads. I've torqued thousands of nuts and bolts both dry and lubricated. An SAE chart will have specks for both and the lubed ones will be lower because of lesser resistance to the stresses that stretch the bolts. When the OP said the nuts moved 1/8", how does that equate in foot lbs.? 1/4,1/2,3/4, more? Not enough for the wheel to fall off. AS has chosen the middle of the span of 90 to 120 lbs at 110. By the way, in the 55 yrs of using lubrication on lug nuts and bolts, I haven't lost a wheel yet. Go by the book if that's all you know, but which book is better, the one written vicariously or by one who's been there?
__________________
JEWare
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06-23-2022, 02:47 PM
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#18
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Escape Pod II
2022 23' Flying Cloud
2018 22' Sport
Orange
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 779
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Sorry, I misquoted the OP in that it should have read 1/8 turn, not 1/8". Still not enough to worry about IMHO.
__________________
JEWare
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06-24-2022, 07:26 AM
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#19
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Evergreen
, Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne&Sam
I should clarify I have 16" wheels.
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Got it, thanks. Mine are 15 inch.
__________________
Dennis
Past:
Airstream International Serenity 23FB
Newmar Ventana 3715
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06-24-2022, 07:40 AM
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#20
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Superannuated Member
2001 19' Bambi
Beaver Lake
, Arkansas
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 188
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Your trailer is new. Could it be that the studs were not fully seated? When installing wheel studs in an axle flange, I always use two washers lubed with oil and draw the studs in with my impact wrench until the nut stops turning. You might try removing the wheels and inspecting the back side of the axle flange to see if the heads of the studs are contacting the flange. But if this is the case, they will stop loosening as soon as they are fully bottomed so you could just wait and see if the trouble stops after a couple of re-torques.
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