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Minnie's Mate · 08-30-2008, 03:34 PM

I finally got around to weighing my rig on a CAT scale. This is how it panned out with just me in the truck:

Steer Axle: 4,160 LBS

Drive Axle: 4,660 LBS

Trailer Axles: 7,180 LBS*

Gross Weight: 16,000 LBS

*Combined weight on both axles.

Thought it coincidental that the total gross weight was an even 16,000 LBS. Anyway, I'm guessing I need to adjust my hitch to even out the weight to shift some weight from the drive axle to the steer axle. There doesn't seem to be any handling issues as is, but I do notice when I check the tire temps that the rear tires are usually warmer than the front.

The L-brackets are in the 4th hole from the top and there are 4 washers in the hitch head. The dealer installed the hitch and I haven't really adjusted it since I bought it or traded trucks and am not sure what adjustments to make. Any suggestions?

JerryMcMunn · 08-30-2008, 04:36 PM

The Equalizer Hitch manual includes step-by-step instructions for installing and adjusting the hitch. I you don't have the manual, just go to Equal-i-zer® Hitch - The “American Original” with 4-Point Sway Control™ and Weight Distribution and download it.

Cheers,

Jerry

Minnie's Mate · 08-30-2008, 04:40 PM

Since the dealer installed mine, I can't find the manual. He probably gave it to us, but I don't have it in with the other Airstream documents in the binder of documents.

The WD bars are a little high at the L-brackets BTW.

mustang · 08-30-2008, 04:58 PM

I would consult either a good trailer place or Ford Tech dept, Heres why I Know when dealing with tractor trailers your steering axle has a specific and differet rateing. Thinking of cars and trucks You have ball joints or Kingpins ect. I would think you might want less weight on your steering than drive axle. Ya know how they say when you jack the back end of a car up in the rear it will cause premature front end component wear. I personally just make my rig level and that all. Let me know what you find out,

Minnie's Mate · 08-30-2008, 05:10 PM

I always thought you wanted approximately the same weight on the front axle as the rear axle of the tow vehicle when under tow. I know you don't want more or you loose traction and are at risk of jack knifing. My truck is a diesel so it would be front heavy to begin with and would the front suspension would compensate for that. By having more weight on the rear axle, I would think that means that there is even less tongue weight being transferred to the front axle.

I didn't realize that the truck weighed more than the trailer I tow. I guess that is good from a handling stand point.

Minnie's Mate · 08-30-2008, 05:16 PM

BTW, I went to the Equal-i-zer web site. They don't make it easy to find the installation manual. Anyway, if I read the instructions correctly, I need to try raising the L-brackets one hole and take measurements to see if that corrects the amount of compression on both front and rear. I think I tried this one time and wound up with the spring bars (wd) being even higher in the rear than I have now. Maybe I need to lower them...this is where I get confused. To me, this should be like the handles on a wheel barrow. The more lifting on the spring bars (the higher they are in the rear) the more weight is transferred to the front axle. But someone told me that is the opposite of what happens. I was told that when you raise the brackets you actually decrease the load on the front axles.

mustang · 08-30-2008, 05:59 PM

I think with your tow vehicle the margin of error is significantly less. If you had a 1/2 ton tow vehicle then I think I might be more inclined for concerne. Reality is , if you broke a torsion bar you could keep going and be reasonably safe, If you had a half ton or less you might be dead in the water. I have towed mine without bars just fine, I think it only dropped the rear end 1 inch or so. I was always told make everything level and the ball should be at 19 and 1/2 inches.

Mikethefixit · 08-30-2008, 06:29 PM

M M
I don't think you are gonna change it much. Play wiff it if ya want.As long as that truck and trailer are level I don't see a problem.I weighed mine with about the same result ,I don't have the figures handy but it was something like Steering 5200 /Drive 5400/ Trailer Tandem 5500 . I did experiment with my straightline Reese by shorting the chains by one link "WHOW NELLIE what a change" The ride was so bad and the handle went away. My wife whom has never riden in a big truck said "THIS AINT WORKIN" we hadnt even gone a half a mile,she detected the change and I didnt tell her I was gonna do it.So I changed it back and got back our Lincoln ride.
I am going over the scales again( i have free access to an 80ft State Certified scale)to see what change if any my installing new axles had upon the axles weights.
Remember THE TAIL IS IN THE SCALE!
Mustang I hope we meet yet this yr.
Roger

mustang · 08-30-2008, 06:57 PM

Mike; I had a 27 foot Overlander also and I loved that trailer. Maybe East Harbor... Who knows

2airishuman · 08-30-2008, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

I finally got around to weighing my rig on a CAT scale...

good 4 you m'mate!

ya could have posted your stuff here....

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...-in-17984.html

but it's all good, where ever, but there are some post in that thread u might NOW find useful (with your numbers)

what is the hitch rating? in large part that determines IF you can move any more weight forward.

also u need to go back and weigh the truck UN hitched, but loaded.

that will give you the base axle loads

ideally u then get a scale measurement with the trailer hooked up but w/d NOT engaged.

that 3rd measurement give you the baseline figures BEFORE playing with the w/d system.

your truck is NOT a 4x4 right? i've forgotten now.

extra heat at the towing tires isn't a big deal, depending on just how MUCH that is.

the rear tires will wear a tad faster, but rotate every 5,000 miles f/b and cross em every 2nd rotation.
____________________________________

based on the little bit i understand about it, your measurements are acceptable (within 10% of truck wt difference)...

if the handling is good don't mess with it. IF the steering is light, shift more mass forward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

I always thought you wanted approximately the same weight on the front axle as the rear axle of the tow vehicle when under tow...

this is they mythical goal.

but my view is that you want to RESTORE the original front axle load (unhitched measurement) at least.

then try to keep the axle difference WITHIN 10% of the total tv mass...

then adjust for steering, handling, connection stiffness, weather (snow) and so on...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

...I didn't realize that the truck weighed more than the trailer I tow....

well u don't know that, yet. the truck axle weights you collected INCLUDE the tongue mass.

so your trailer weights another 1000 lbs (approx) over the trailer axle weights measured.

just guessing, the truck will be slightly under 8k un hitched and the trailer slightly over 8k.

cheers
2air'

Minnie's Mate · 08-30-2008, 07:16 PM

I looked for similar threads before I posted and didn't come across it...I never get specific threads related to my search when I use the search feature...just unrelated threads that contain the word I have entered.

Anyway, yes, Ursula is a 2X4. I would have taken the other weights (I wanted to know what the hitch weight is with the new mattress) but the lady running the truck stop side didn't seem too with it. She said she had been working at another location for so long she was a little off but was filling in over the holiday weekend and then answered the phone, "Greens Check Cashing"

so I didn't want to tax her too much. She did know how to operate the scale though and when I told her it was my first time, knowing I was not a commercial trucker, she made the weight certificate official by stamping each copy with a rubber stamp and pointed out that I even got a collectible CAT scale super trucks card with my weighing.

2airishuman · 08-30-2008, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

... Anyway, if I read the instructions correctly, ..this is where I get confused...But someone told me that is the opposite...

the answer to this issue is in the long thread on the topic, BUT depending on hitch/bar RATING,

my limited understand on the hitch in question is that...

clearly u can adjust the washers and hitch ball orientation up to a point but...

the spring bars are only gonna generate so much force, beyond that they are just BENDING more.

here are SOME of the relevant hitch/brand/setup threads....

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...ort-34484.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f232...tly-33350.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f232...use-28204.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...sag-18559.html

cheers
2air'

Minnie's Mate · 08-30-2008, 07:55 PM

Thanks for the links 2air. You always seem to find the most relevant threads.

overlander63 · 08-30-2008, 08:39 PM

Tom, your truck and trailer likely weigh in at about 8,000 pounds each. Remember, you have 10%-15% of the trailer weight on the tongue, which shows as axle weight when you weighed it. That's why it's important to weigh truck alone, then both.
Ideally, you should weigh the trailer by itself as well, but very few CAT scales are slow enough, business-wise, to allow this. Strangely enough, our Sovereign and truck weigh very close to your rig.

bryanl · 08-31-2008, 10:41 AM

Quote:

if the handling is good don't mess with it. IF the steering is light, shift more mass forward.

this is the primary criterion for load leveling - good advice.

If you don't have the rear tires at max sidewall PSI, you might give them some more air but as long as the temperatures are generally below 150F you should have enough air in them.

Dallas had a good rundown on proper hitch adjustment (see Hitch Setup )

"Adjust the hitch ball height to 'level' the trailer
"Adjust the weight distributing bars to 'level' the tow vehicle
"Adjust the hitch head angle to 'level' the bars. "

The basic philosophy applies to all load leveling hitches.

Keep in mind, too, that with a F250 diesel pickup, putting 1000 pounds (tongue weight) or so in the rear is not that big a deal and the rear overhang isn't that much either. That means that load leveling tends more towards the 'nice' rather than the 'necessary' side of the considerations.

DreamStreamr · 09-02-2008, 11:11 PM

We have weighed four times in past 13 months (approx 17,000 miles). Our Silverado 2500HD weighs out at 8,000 pounds, the trailer at 6,000 pounds. and once had front and rear truck axles matched. Other times close but no match. But the variance in distances to ground of truck front and rear bumpers are within approx 1/2 inch of each other, so we are keeping truck near level. That's the primary criterion our Equal-i-zer manual instructed us to use.

The primary result of concern is how well (and safely) it tows. How about, seems perfect?

Minnie's Mate · 09-02-2008, 11:26 PM

I measure the top of the wheel well openings while hitched and after unhitching. The following was the results:

Hitched:

Front: 36-1/2"
Rear: 36-3/4"

Unhitched:

Front: 36-1/4"
Rear: 38-5/8"

Obviously, I was right and I need to adjust the hitch set-up. I called Progress Manufacturing and spoke with Daniel and he recommended that I try moving the L-bracket up two holes and if that shifts enough weight to the front axles I should add two washers to the hitch head.

bryanl · 09-03-2008, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Obviously, I was right and I need to adjust the hitch set-up.

not so obvious.

Pickup trucks are designed to settle in the rear with load. Their loading is always asymmetric with most of it taken up by the rear axle.

The key you should look for with an equalizing hitch is that you are not taking load away from the front axle.

Often a pickup will handle better with most of its load on the rear axle due to the way its suspension is set up. You have to get it down a couple of inches just to get the springs tensioned to ride comfortably. With diesels especially, the front end often doesn't need any more weight. This is why trying to get even fender depression for load leveling on a pickup can be misleading.

Even using axle weighings needs to be carefully interpreted. When you do that, you should look at the percent change relative to the GAWR so as to provide an even difference between GAWR and actual weight on all axles. Since the front end on pickups is often much closer to the GAWR when empty, that means most of the truck weight needs to be placed on the rear axle.

dbradhstream · 09-03-2008, 03:21 PM

Just when I think it's obvious, it's ...

not so obvious.

Pickup trucks are designed to settle in the rear with load. Their loading is always asymmetric with most of it taken up by the rear axle.

Which, I guess, makes sense and seems, well, obvious. So, that means we shouldn't be trying to force the front and the rear to settle the same distance at all. Instead, we should be trying to end up with the front and rear being level. If that's the case, then based on MM's "hitched" numbers above, he's within a 1/4" of the perfect setup and can rest easy. It's obvious, right? Or not? Aaaargh!

SafariSS · 09-03-2008, 03:28 PM

Tom,

Out of curiosity, did you have any liquids or personal effects in the trailer, that is was it ready to travel? I am curious as I have the same trailer as you and was wondering what really it weighed. The sticker in the pantry sez 6400lbs...?

I usually always have some fresh water with me and try to keep waste tanks empty.