Do I need sway control with my rig?

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

the ONLY challenge is to the CLAIM to have PROVED what causes accidents...

85 or 90 % of the time.

based on THAT questionnaire, reportedly used 30+ years ago.
___________

there simply aren't ANY questions on that form that lead to PROOF of what did or did not cause an accident.
___________

and NOTHING in this post is directed at you personally, but you have made the claim and did post the questionnaire.
___________

and BOTH the claim and questionnaire are HERE for others to challenge.

as JUST ONE EXAMPLE of this, lets consider the "holding tank" question....

and ASSUME 100% of the accidents involved empty tanks and 100% of NON accidents reported FULL holding tanks.

that would be a STRONG indication that HOLDING TANK WEIGHT/volume has SOMETHING to do with the accidents...

but it would NOT PROVE what caused ANY accidents or WHY accidents happened or did NOT happen.

and UNLESS SOMEONE VERIFIED that the holding tanks were EXACTLY as reported by the people filling out the questionnaires...

even THAT CONCLUSION is suspect.
____________

it is a SURVEY type questionnaire and does not lead to PROOF of anything.

cheers
2air'

Then I guess Airstream is stupid, since they recognized the data and agreed with it, without exception.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Then I guess Airstream is stupid, since they recognized the data and agreed with it, without exception.

well THAT is another of your claims.

and we've got NO PROOF of either thing ((that a/s is stupid OR they agreed with the 'data'...))

without SEEING the "data" it doesn't exist.

and NONE of us can even guess HOW or IF any of those questions apply NOW, 2009.

it's really a pitiful survey and reflects how/what might have been asked by amateurs or those NOT trained in statistical methods or survey/research methods.

it's sad,

because IF the questions were better AND the answers available someone HERE might find a USEFUL item.

cheers
2air'

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Then I guess Airstream is stupid, since they recognized the data and agreed with it, without exception.

Hi, I think almost any company/corporation would agree if it meant transferring the liability to someone else. [owner/driver, tow vehicle manufacture, hitch manufacture, Etc Etc.]

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, I think almost any company/corporation would agree if it meant transferring the liability to someone else. [owner/driver, tow vehicle manufacture, hitch manufacture, Etc Etc.]

Not at all. They questioned "how can you tell."

They felt that it was impossible to find out.

They were given the information, and then agreed, "that you indeed can tell" if a given rigging is likely to contribute to a loss of control accident.

And in time, the same basic reasons, are still at the fore front of the improper rigging issues.

There are those that object, of course, because in some ways, it doesn't make sense. However, in some other ways, the proof was in the pudding, that the Caravanner Insurance records showed time and time again, when you see the same thing happen, over and over, it becomes very clear, what the issues are, or were.

The analyzing of the returned information, was review by 2 different people, independent of each other. The bottom line results from those 2 people, were in agreement, better than 98 percent of the time.

I will make an attempt to talk to the person, if I can find him, that over saw that program, and see if I can get something in writing from him, bearing out what I have repeatedly posted, but in his words.

Andy

[Bohemian]

I have a similar question. F-350 4x4 (SWR) with a 28 foot Safari.

I have tried to induce a sway situation many times by having trucks pass me at various speeds and relative speeds. I cannot detect any sway. Admittedly I have no experience with other rigs or sway. Still, I'm not inclined to solve a problem that I do not have.

I also don't have a WD hitch, which I am sure I need. My hitch is rated by Ford for 5000 lbs without WD, 10000 with it, and my AS is around 7000.

[Mikethefixit]

Bohemian
What works for me is an old Reese Straightline DUAL cam WD hitch.
It has 550 lb bars. I did have 1000 lb bars but the rebound was so heriffic because of the stiffness of the bars that it would almost throw ya out of the seat. I sold that setup which actually came with the trailer at purchase. I already had the dual cam and the bars from a box trailer I had ordered then refused when it came in damaged.(another story)
With the longbed Crewcab Diesel F350 SW we come in on the scale at 14K TOTAL GROSS,that's ready to camp. We get a very smooth ride,proven by things left on the galley counter and the table and that surprisingly in the same spot at destination. I did change axles on the Overlander a year ago , which helped the ride also. Let me also say "MY WIFE HATES INTERSTATES" so we travel alot of two lane roads.Which means we meet and pass big trucks in all sorts of configurations and wind conditions. I never feel any sway and have purposely tried to induce sway without success.
DO YOU NEED SWAY CONTROL?? My answer DEFINITELY YES
WORKS FOR US.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Bohemian

I have a similar question. F-350 4x4 (SWR) with a 28 foot Safari.

I have tried to induce a sway situation many times by having trucks pass me at various speeds and relative speeds. I cannot detect any sway. Admittedly I have no experience with other rigs or sway. Still, I'm not inclined to solve a problem that I do not have.

I also don't have a WD hitch, which I am sure I need. My hitch is rated by Ford for 5000 lbs without WD, 10000 with it, and my AS is around 7000.

Next time your out with your Airstream, quickly change lanes simulating avoiding a foreign object that just fell on the road in front of you.

I would suggest you not be over about 40 mph, when you make that test.

You will then find out, what "sway" is all about.

You might also consider being in the tow vehicle by yourself when you make that rapid lane change.

Andy

[B4WEDI]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

and YOUR so called PROOF is based on THIS questionnaire...

which after YEARS of claiming to have PROOF of accident causes was FINALLY posted here...

no disrespect intended,
2air'

You should calm down man...... this kind of posting attitude runs good people off and I'd rather not see anymore good knowledgable people gone. Personally, I do hear your tone as disrespect.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by B4WEDI

You should calm down man...... this kind of posting attitude runs good people off and I'd rather not see anymore good knowledgable people gone. Personally, I do hear your tone as disrespect.

No disrespect intended.

I was simply giving you an easy way to create a sway, and that's why I suggested a low speed.

Quick manuvers, are the usual cause of loss of control, that unfortunately can happen to all of us, when we least expect it.

Far better that you can experience a sway under controlled conditions, than uncontrolled.

When doing the test, keep your hand on the brake controller, so that you can quickly apply the trailer brakes.

Having even a one time experience with even a small sway, will prepare you for the big one, that hopefully never happens, but if it does, you would be prepared to handle it.

Again, only trying to help you, the easy way.

Andy

[B4WEDI]

Sorry Andy... This comment was not directed to you from me.
Sorry 2air... I guess I too am human and jumped the gun.

If nothing else, I should know better than to get involved in these types of threads...

Have fun guys !

[Silvertherapy]

Looks like I fly against the prevailing wisdom of the group! I am pulling a 2008 27FB Intnl CCD with a 2004 GMC Sierra Denali that has the 6 liter engine, 4 wheel steering, ,all wheel drive and a class III weight Distrib. hitch. My dealer said that I should try it first without sway control because I most likely would not feel a need for it. I have since pulled it on a 6,000 mile round trip from Texas to Washington state and back, and never once wished that I had sway control. The trip included everything from 35-45 mph crosswinds in Az and Nv to 7% up and down grades in Cali and Oregon with slushy, snowy roads. In what I considered to be some of the worst conditions you may ever encounter, the AS stayed steady as a rock and felt like it was on rails following behind. HOWEVER, I am not advocating that you don't use sway control since additional precautions cannot hurt anything. I think it also depends on each individual rig and it's setup as well.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by jdh350

...a class III weight Distrib. hitch...

i hope THIS PART is a tie-poh!

cheers
2air'

[Silvertherapy]

2 air, yes it's a typo, I don't remember the brand, but it is the WD hitch that the dealer set me up with.

[Silvertherapy]

I do have another question concerning the WD bars. The dealer set it up with 1000 lb. bars. I bought a hydraulic scale to measure tongue weight, and I am at 900 lbs with my usual travelling load. Are 1000 lb bars the right ones to use or should I look for 900 lb bars? Most of the time it pulls smooth, but on some road surfaces, I have noticed that the front of the trailer can get bounced pretty good, so I was wondering if those bars are too stiff?

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by jdh350

I do have another question concerning the WD bars...

the answer REALLY depends on the brand of hitch and TYPE of w/d bar.

so post a PIC or the brand/model info for the hitch gizmo.

it's a good idea to go SLOWER on bumpy roads, but u know that already.

cheers
2air'

[2airishuman]

back 2 green' and the original question...

here are 3 threads without hype or anger that may help u understand the options....

NONE of them relate specifically to airbag hitches but do address the issue of wiggles...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...tion-5166.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...trol-3920.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...rol-19849.html

cheers
2air'

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by jdh350

I do have another question concerning the WD bars. The dealer set it up with 1000 lb. bars. I bought a hydraulic scale to measure tongue weight, and I am at 900 lbs with my usual travelling load. Are 1000 lb bars the right ones to use or should I look for 900 lb bars? Most of the time it pulls smooth, but on some road surfaces, I have noticed that the front of the trailer can get bounced pretty good, so I was wondering if those bars are too stiff?

I know I addressed that question once to the tech support guys from Reese. I do remember that the rear of my half ton van could be driven down pretty heavily by the hitch weight of my Safari when I would travel on the Interstates where the roads had a series of dips. There were a couple on I-55 just north of STL and at the Lake Springfield bridge near Springfield Illinois that were pretty severe. The folks at Reese said that in these conditions, the bars are bending at some pretty extreme angles and that under sizing the bar could lead you to a condition where the bars could technically snap. In their opinion they advised me to upgrade to a heavier bar since my tow vehicle was being influenced greatly by those roads with dips.

My 3/4 van is completely different from a suspension basis and really doesn't deflect downwards as much as the half ton did. Obviously in my case the bar would not be subjected to the same stress or load factors since the suspension is not subject to as much downward deflection. Lighter bars could handle the load.

Jack

[RichHog]

I think Andy has a good point especially for the Newbies out there. Do the lane change test under a controlled condition so it is locked in your forehead. Do it more than once. Because some day it won't be a test. It could happen when you're tired after a long day and your reflexes aren't too smooth, or at night on a dark road in the rain or when you're going 75 mph downhill. At that time I want to have the best equipment possible and be on my toes.

[LI Pets]

Last year I was moving my trailer only 3-4 miles, so I didn't bother putting the Reese dual WD/sways on, just droped on the ball.

I jumped on I 75 ........wow that was scary at 60mph the semi's were throwing me off, big mistake not hooking up right.

I normally drive with a very light hand on the wheel when set up right so yes WD/sways are needed.

But setup incorrectly and they don't do much take the time to do them right.