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Old 10-16-2019, 12:27 PM   #21
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I pull my FC27 with a 2018 F150 diesel (Ford started putting a smaller PowerStroke in the F150s in 2018 with a 10 speed trans). I don’t carry too much payload and I store many items in the AS as I’m no where close to the payload limit of the AS. Agree with all of the comments on diesel costs, longer life , torque, etc. I primarily use the TV to pull, rarely as a daily driver. At same time there are pros to a gasser—mainly it seems that gas is easier to find at times vs. diesel. In the end I think that hitch/weight distribution/proper sway setup is first priority for a safe pull.
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:43 PM   #22
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I towed a 27’ with an gas F350 Lariat. Worked very well. Now I have a Ram Cummins CTD. More expensive to maintain but I drive it maybe 1000 miles a year right now. It’s an amazing truck.

Can’t go wrong either way, just make sure you go 2500 or 3500 and get a good solid brand. Life’s too short to cheap out on trucks.
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:48 PM   #23
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" I drive it maybe 1000 miles a year right now...."

You do need to get out more.
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Old 10-16-2019, 01:25 PM   #24
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Chappell Hill , Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanster View Post
Diesel...all day long.
Yep! Agree.
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Old 10-16-2019, 02:28 PM   #25
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" I drive it maybe 1000 miles a year right now...."

You do need to get out more.
I drive about 50k miles a year.
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Old 10-16-2019, 02:29 PM   #26
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I was towing my 30' International with my 2015 F150 Eco Boost (max tow package) and it did just fine in most situations, loved the truck. Mountains though it was a slight struggle.. I did come across a good deal on a 2017 F250 Diesel and bought it and 27K miles later have zero regrets. Night and day difference from the 1/2 ton to 3/4 in towing. As for oil changes, fuel/water separator filter, etc.. yes does cost more but I usually catch them on sale and buy ahead and do the changes myself. Last oil change with full synthetic including (OEM) filter cost me like $48..
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:11 PM   #27
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Hi

If you live on the east coast, most states charge so much in tax on diesel fuel that a gas engine actually costs less per mile. How much more varies state to state. If you live in various western states, the tax is less and your cost per mile for fuel is less with a diesel.

Modern gas engines (like in the last 5 years) and modern transmissions are *very* different than what used to be the standard. That has closed the gap between gas and diesel a lot. Just when this or that feature made it into the lineup varies between manufacturers. This process is ongoing so indeed this or that 2020 model may close the gap a bit more than a "tired old 2017"

A diesel is a heavy engine. A diesel drive train is a heavy drive train. The "real" payload numbers on a diesel will always be worse than the numbers on a similar gas powered truck. You have to haul the weight ....

Based on pulling a 30' / 10,000 pound trailer pretty much all over the country over the last three years, I have *never* felt that the combo lacked adequate power. That's been true driving all over the east and through the mountains out west.

Bob
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:50 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Hi

If you live on the east coast, most states charge so much in tax on diesel fuel that a gas engine actually costs less per mile. How much more varies state to state. If you live in various western states, the tax is less and your cost per mile for fuel is less with a diesel.

Modern gas engines (like in the last 5 years) and modern transmissions are *very* different than what used to be the standard. That has closed the gap between gas and diesel a lot. Just when this or that feature made it into the lineup varies between manufacturers. This process is ongoing so indeed this or that 2020 model may close the gap a bit more than a "tired old 2017"

A diesel is a heavy engine. A diesel drive train is a heavy drive train. The "real" payload numbers on a diesel will always be worse than the numbers on a similar gas powered truck. You have to haul the weight ....

Based on pulling a 30' / 10,000 pound trailer pretty much all over the country over the last three years, I have *never* felt that the combo lacked adequate power. That's been true driving all over the east and through the mountains out west.

Bob
Yes, diesel engines are heavy and so is the transmission. My empty RAM 2500 has a 60/40 front/rear weight ratio. But there is an unexpected advantage in having a heavy engine. When I drop 1000 lbs on the hitch ball my axles loads change to 48/52, i.e., almost perfectly balanced. The rig handles solid as a rock and I don't have to mess with a weight distribution or sway control hitch.
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Old 10-16-2019, 06:54 PM   #29
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FYI: While many of us prefer the torque and power of diesel, metropolitan areas on the West Coast are moving against pm pollution with diesel fuel. Diesel licensed vehicles becoming problematic on West Coast in metro areas. Depending where you are located, maybe a consideration in your choice. DMV's creating licensing problems for diesel owners in these metro areas.
Life in general has become problematic on the west coast.
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Old 10-16-2019, 07:45 PM   #30
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I'm running the Ford 6.2 gas hog. I some times yearn for the diesel.

However, if I had the diesel, I'm certain I'd be pondering what the gasser would be like.

Both have bennies and drawbacks.

I was askeerd of the possible out of warranty diesel issues.

6.2, 4:30 rear, tows like a beast, devours gasoline....I mean, just devours it. If I behave, say, tow less than 65 mph, I might get 10mpg haulin' the 30 foot airstream around.

Unhitched, 13 mpg, UNLESS, it's all downhill, then maybe as much as 14.7.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:21 PM   #31
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We get 14 pulling with the gas tahoe.....we get 25 hwy, not towing...it is super stylish, when not towing.....Why in the world would I buy a diesel?
It would just be downright stupid for me to do that.
The new diesels are junk. A dodge is junk....good motor, junk truck.... You are going to have to decide between a Ford or Chevy.....
The new Ford 6.2 gas is strong and durable, and can be worked on when needed.....I suppose the Chevy big gas motor is good too.....Duramax diesel is garbage.....They say the new Ford diesel is a good motor but I am not buying one......too many horror stories......
Unless you are hauling a big load every day, a diesel is stupid....even if you are hauling a big load every day, the new diesels are junk, and you will hate it.
Guys that pay for them try to talk nice about them, but repairs are astronomical.....and difficult to find mechanics to work on them.....any shop can work on the gas motors...it is just a no brainer....
I am known for having opinions, and you did ask for opinions !
...If only you could find a brand new Ford 250 with the 7.3...now that was a good truck! ....easy get 600,000 miles out of it.
Those are days gone by........new diesels last no longer, if as long, as a gas....so they are just senseless to buy. The future is in gas motors, just wait and see.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:25 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majorairhead View Post
I'm running the Ford 6.2 gas hog. I some times yearn for the diesel.

However, if I had the diesel, I'm certain I'd be pondering what the gasser would be like.

Both have bennies and drawbacks.

I was askeerd of the possible out of warranty diesel issues.

6.2, 4:30 rear, tows like a beast, devours gasoline....I mean, just devours it. If I behave, say, tow less than 65 mph, I might get 10mpg haulin' the 30 foot airstream around.

Unhitched, 13 mpg, UNLESS, it's all downhill, then maybe as much as 14.7.
Hauling a 30' with anything, 10 mpg is pretty darn good....And you are not tearing up your truck hauling with it....I am sure some diehard will try to say he gets 21 mpg with his diesel, but he is full of it....lol.....nevermind whenit breaks and he has to drop 5,000 for repairs.....easy 5,000.....no thank you.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:46 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_A View Post
We are looking for a 2500 TV Chevy Ford or Dodge.
I prefer a Gas truck but having trouble finding a GAS in the higher trim levels.
Not sure the premium being paid for the Diesel is worth the extra costs of the truck plus the ongoing higher fuel cost.

However a local dealer is offering a great deal on a new 2019 LTZ Duramax.
Trucks that are 2 years older are the same price that is being offered.

I am able to find more RAM 2500 in Gas / Hemi pre owned in my area
not wanting to go older then 2017.

All input welcome
There are many factors you can consider when making this decision, and many posts in this thread have pointed out some of those factors, but for me, in the end itís the pleasure of being able to safely drive our rig on any road grade without stress. We love mountains and with our Sierra 2500 diesel, I just canít help blurting out to DW when we are towing our 28í Airstream on hilly roads, ďI just love this truck!Ē

You put it in tow/haul mode, turn on the exhaust brake, set a reasonable cruise control speed and let the Duramax-Allison combo do its thing. The truck was not designed to be a daily driver, it was built to tow and haul and that is what we use it for. I have noticed that when the cruise control is activated the management of the gear shifting and the engine RPM is a lot smoother, most noticeably in hilly terrain (in our neck of the woods we deal with grades which can reach 18-20%). Rarely need to apply the brakes unless the grade gets to 15% or more on a long stretch, in which case I gently apply the brakes to bring the RPM down to a 2000-2500 range; may need to do this once or twice on longer downhill runs, but otherwise no braking is necessaryóa lot more relaxing than the Dodge Caravan I used to drive towing a Coleman camper!

As for towing power, I can overtake cars/trucks while driving up a hill on a highway! Got a 6 year extended warranty, free oil changes in the first two years (4 in total). So far not a single glitch, we are happy campers.
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Old 10-17-2019, 01:51 AM   #34
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My thoughts (I own a diesel):
A new truck with a diesel goes for ~$10k more than an identical truck without. A used truck with a diesel also does, so in the end itís a wash.
Diesel fuel isnít necessarily more expensive than gas. In many areas itís cheaper than regular. You need to also look at what fuel the gasser truck youíre looking at calls for. If it wants mid or premium, that can make diesel cheaper more places.
A Diesel engine is more efficient. Anecdotally from what Iíve heard itís around 10 mpg vs 15 mpg towing and 15 vs 20 not towing. YMMV.
A Diesel engine runs at a lower rpm and is also built heavier, hence a longer life.
Diesel fuel can be harder to find in some areas, but is always available somewhere.
DEF is dirt cheap and so little is used, itís not a factor to me.
All truck maintenance is expensive nowadays. I havenít found the diesel to be exceptional and have never been anywhere where being a diesel made any difference for being able to work on it.
Iím not against gas. I previously towed a SOB with a 5.7 Hemi and it was perfectly fine. If you tow a lot and/or a larger trailer, I think a diesel is better. If you donít tow a lot and you have a smaller trailer, you have a lot of options that might make more sense than a 3/4T diesel. IMO, if youíre getting a 3/4T though, you might as well get the diesel.
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Old 10-17-2019, 02:05 AM   #35
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Diesel - My Recommendation

Our family has a 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 Quadcab with the Cummins diesel. We pull a 1964 Airstream 30' Sovereign like a breeze. We get 19 mph without the trailer...and, wait for it, have averaged 18 with the trailer.

My wife and I left around midnight to drive 400 miles to So Cal when we bought the trailer, then turned around the same day and drove 250 miles back up north and then 50 more up into the Sierras at the 5000' level to a beautiful lakeside campground, arriving at 10:30 p.m. Then 100 more miles home the following afternoon.

Not a hiccup from the truck. The drive north went up and over the Grapevine in 30 mph side winds. No steering stabilizer. No hitch equalizer. Flawless. p.s. our Dodge has 230,000 miles on it. Our mechanic says the Cummins engine can go 1,000,000 miles.

We had a Suburban before the truck, with a 5.7 (350 CID) v8. It would have to over-rev to pull a similar weight horse trailer up long hills. It overheated several times on long hauls with a 3000 lb ski boat (yes the Chevy was purchased new and maintained fully). We got around 12 - 13 mpg pulling any trailer. With softer 1/2 ton springs, the trailer would steer the Suburban when semis passed or in side winds.

We'll never go back and would never consider gas again. That's my recommendation - of course, you know what you get with free advice...:-)
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Old 10-17-2019, 05:59 AM   #36
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After towing for decades with various ďgasĒ trucks, I purchased an F250 Lariat Diesel about 1.5 years ago. And have towed my AS about 7000 miles. I will never go back to gas for a TV.
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Old 10-17-2019, 06:04 AM   #37
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I'll chime in. I have a 2010 25FB and a 2016 F250 6.2 gas single cab. My buddy's parents have a diesel (Dodge, I think) to pull their large 5th wheel. Well, buddy and I took a trip to the Colorado mountains a few months ago. On the drive to get to the mountains (over flat land), buddy keeps telling me I need a diesel, and I keep telling him that the cost doesn't justify going a little bit faster a few times a year (the truck is only used for pulling the AS).

Well, in the mountains, my gas F250 did just fine, though there were times when we were in second gear and very high RPMs going up the mountains, but the truck pulled it. Going down hill, the engine and transmission kept the truck at a low speed, and I didn't need to use the brakes much. In other words, my gasser did just fine, even though at times it was working pretty hard. "Not a problem" I would tell my buddy - "These trucks are made to work hard." Meanwhile, diesel trucks pulling trailers could pull away from me like I was standing still.

Well, by the end of the trip, I was yearning for a diesel, and my buddy was sold on the gasser. I'm not going to sell my gasser just to get a diesel, but the next time I need to buy a truck, I'm going to seriously consider the diesel. Logically, I know it doesn't make financial sense for me to buy a diesel because of the way I use the truck. But man, it would be really nice to have that diesel torque then pulling up mountains, even though the gasser did just fine.

And by the way, we got 10-12 MPG on the trip. I didn't divide it into "mountains MPG vs flat MPG". But the average overall was 10-12 mpg. The headwinds and cross winds on the Oklahoma prairies was pretty stiff at times. I would drive for miles and miles and miles on relatively flat land in 5th gear (6 speed transmission). The engine and transmission never got hot and I never had any difficulties.
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Old 10-17-2019, 08:22 AM   #38
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If you can get a great deal on a Duramax, I think that seals the deal. Yep, a bit higher operating costs, but you get what you pay for. I have a 2016 High Country Duramax towing a 25'FC. Everything is a breeze. 15 MPG towing, and 20-23 highway not towing, depending on how you drive. That's no Bull! Awesome truck!
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Old 10-18-2019, 07:47 AM   #39
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I have pulled our 28' FC with a 2008 Chevy 2500 with the 6.0 gas and 6 speed tranny. It did great but mpg was not thrilling at all. 8-10 mpg in the Colorado mountains. We had been talking about moving to a diesel and finally did. 2019 GMC Denali HD. 6.6 Duramax and 6 spd Allison tranny. First time out was so much better. I told Karen this was the most relaxed I have ever been towing. It was effortless. Never worried about speed up mountain passes, plenty of engine braking downhill, no more high revving engine and much better mileage. Yes it cost more to buy, but I keep my trucks 10-15 years so the cost is spread out. Also mileage is 20-25% better than the gas truck. I will always stay with the 3/4 ton size due to the increased payload and "reserve capacity" on towing. Hope that helps your decision.
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:05 AM   #40
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Hi

Comparing a 2008 Gas truck to a 2019/2020 Gas truck would also be a major upgrade with most models of truck. How much time did your 2008 spend in 10th gear?

Bob
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