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01-22-2021, 08:25 AM
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#1
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Rivet Master
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Tampa
, Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 7,656
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Ground.
Are the DC circuits ground buss common to the AC grounds?
I need a DC ground wire and I could tap into an AC outlet ground nearby.
My intuition says yes, but I'd thought I'd try an expert before I allowed smoke to escape equipment.
Both schematics show a ground.
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01-22-2021, 09:08 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2010 25' FB Flying Cloud
Davenport
, Iowa
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,148
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There is a publication called RV Travel. There is a section called Just ask Mike (JAM) he specialty is RV electric.
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01-22-2021, 09:09 AM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2007 22' International CCD
Corona
, California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,180
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Ground.
One of my degrees and training includes electrical power distribution. Here’s how it works in an Airstream.
Both the DC negative buss bar and the AC safety earth (bare copper or green ground wire) are tied together to a common point. On my Airstream they are separately run to a big ground lug bolted on the frame back by the bumper. Therefore they are tied to one point, but are not to be used as a common connection. Note that checking the integrity of that ground lug is a preventative maintenance check done at least once a year.
Note that the AC neutral (white wire in an outlet) is not and cannot be tied to the bare or green safety earth AC wire inside the Airstream anywhere, ever. That’s required by code. It gets tied to safety earth in a power pedestal or home power panel, or at the generator with a bonding plug if needed.
The proper way to get a DC ground in your case would be to run a wire to the shell of the Airstream or the frame. The safety earth for an AC circuit is there for safety, to protect you from a hot wire to airstream shell short circuit and blow the breaker if it happens. It’s NOT there as a DC ground connection.
The short answer is NO, run the DC ground to the shell or frame if a home run to the negative DC buss bar is not possible. Don’t use the AC safety earth. That’s not why it is there.
__________________
Rich, KE4GNK/AE, Overkill Engineering Dept.
'The Silver HamShack' ('07 International 22FB CCD 75th Anniversary)
Multiple Yaesu Ham Radios inside and many antennae sprouting from roof, ProPride hitch, Prodigy P2 controller.
2012 shortbed CrewMax 4x4 Toyota Tacoma TV with more antennae on it.
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01-22-2021, 09:10 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
2018 25' International
Slidell
, Louisiana
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 3,725
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The AC ground (green and uninsulated) are grounded to the chassis. The AC neutral (white) is not and should not. Edit, beat me to it. Carry on.
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01-22-2021, 09:25 AM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2007 22' International CCD
Corona
, California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,180
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One of the slightly dumb things US electrical codes and electricians tend to do is call the green or bare wire in AC circuits ‘ground’. The European standard refers to it as ‘safety earth’ which is a better name for what it is used for.
As I noted, it’s there to blow the breaker if you get a hot wire short to the shell. It’s usually a lighter gauge wire, designed to blow the breaker, but not routinely carry any current.
The isolation in an Airstream (or any travel trailer) between safety earth and neutral is so GFCI devices will operate properly and to keep excess current out of the safety earth. That’s why they are not tied in the Airstream electrical panel. They do get tied external to the Airstream as required by electrical code. It’s a safety thing that looks different on the schematic.
__________________
Rich, KE4GNK/AE, Overkill Engineering Dept.
'The Silver HamShack' ('07 International 22FB CCD 75th Anniversary)
Multiple Yaesu Ham Radios inside and many antennae sprouting from roof, ProPride hitch, Prodigy P2 controller.
2012 shortbed CrewMax 4x4 Toyota Tacoma TV with more antennae on it.
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01-22-2021, 10:05 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Tampa
, Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 7,656
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Looks like more research is needed. There's no way to run a wire to the skin from where my need is.
BTW, I never suggested anything about the Neutral???
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01-22-2021, 12:32 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2007 22' International CCD
Corona
, California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,180
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Ground.
How much DC current do you actually need at the location?
Understand you didn’t ask about neutral. I have a rotten long-standing engineering tendency to give very complete answers...
__________________
Rich, KE4GNK/AE, Overkill Engineering Dept.
'The Silver HamShack' ('07 International 22FB CCD 75th Anniversary)
Multiple Yaesu Ham Radios inside and many antennae sprouting from roof, ProPride hitch, Prodigy P2 controller.
2012 shortbed CrewMax 4x4 Toyota Tacoma TV with more antennae on it.
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