Windowless A/C

[firefly007]

Got the test unit running in the Bambi II today. Air temp was 95 degrees and and the trailer was in the shade. My little 6k btu unit pulled the inside temp and humidity down to 75 degrees / 47% humidity in about 30 min. Starting temp/humidity was 90 degrees/85% humidity.

steve

[SmokelessJoe]

Steve, Lynne, all:

There are pictures here somewhere of a split unit someone installed.

I thought it was a little makeshift because the gas line poked through the trailer and ran down across the front window.

The compressor sat on the tongue.

The correspondent said the LP tanks had been removed for photo taking but I don’t know how they could share the space. A compressor like that should have about 25” clearance at the air intake.

Like several here, my main consideration in deciding my A/C system was not to ruin the lines of the Argosy 24.

I’m installing the LG “Art Cool” split unit in my trailer. See it here:

http://www.lgaircon.co.uk/product.php

The inside blower unit is 22” square and only 5” deep. It looks like a piece of modern art and is so quiet that you have to look to see if the LED lamps indicate that it’s running.

The compressor will sit on the tongue, were the LP tanks used to be.

This is easier for me because I’m switching to diesel for everything -heating space and water plus cooking - and won’t need space for them.

Lynne, a disadvantage of the Cool Cat is that it’s floor mounted.

Heat rises. Cold falls. Cool air should float down from a ceiling, not hang around on a floor.

Steve, what’s your secret solution? Curious.


Sergei

[uwe]

I just got back from a 4-day trip to temperature hell - over 100 most of the daytime hours. This was also the first test of my converted window A/C.
I converted a window unit to inhale cooling air through the floor of the trailer, and exhale it through a vent in the side of the trailer. The vent looks like a vintage refrigerator vent when closed. I prop it open for extra airflow, when the A/C is running at medium or high, and leave it closed on low A/C.
It worked well, very well indeed, considering that only one of the two 4" ducts was connected, the other one closed off with a rag.
It cooled the trailer ( 1963 Overlander) to where you could feel a temp shock walking into it, in the mid afternoon.
I see no way to install a functional a/c without some sacrifices on space, weight and styling...I ended up cutting up the trailer to make mine work, but the results are surprisingly good.
My installation is not finished yet, but once completed, I anticipate an even better air distribution.
The system is about as noisy as a fantastic fan on medium speed. It is located under our bed, and the foam and insulation muffles it considerably. There is little to no vibration. I took a nap on top of it, and it did not bother me one bit.
An installation like that requires some serious modfications, but it is not impossible, and can be done by a hobbyist like myself. There is more information on it, including some recent post at my thread "a 63 for me...."

[safari57]

I put a window unit in a cupboard directly above my fridge in my 21' Flying Cloud. Shared vents with the fridge, and put a fan behind to circulate the air. It worked okay, but noticed on our trip last week in 100 degree weather that the fridge struggled to stay cool and we got cool with the A/C but not what I wanted.

I do not have a hot water heater (an inline water heater is going to go in yet this summer) but a vintage hotwater heater box and vented door are still in place. I am going to move the A/C to that space utilizing the water heater door for venting and that way my fridge won't be in overload mode and the A/C will have it's own venting and still be unobtrusive. It will take a bit of creative metal and woodwork but nothing a fun day in the shop won't address. I realize that this means the cold air will be coming in at just above floor level but given the small size of the trailer it will cool down very quickly and it will also be moved about by a fan we have mounted on the side of the cupboard so this should work well. Will let you know how it turns out.

Another thought we'd had was as Uwe has done - put it under the bed with the vent out to the back storage door. When in use we'd leave that back door open enough to provide venting. The only thing I was concerned about there was the potential for critters to move it but with proper screening (not thought this through in detail yet) that would not be an issue.

Barry

[firefly007]

I’m installing the LG “Art Cool” split unit in my trailer. See it here:

http://www.lgaircon.co.uk/product.php

The inside blower unit is 22” square and only 5” deep. It looks like a piece of modern art and is so quiet that you have to look to see if the LED lamps indicate that it’s running.

The compressor will sit on the tongue, were the LP tanks used to be.

This is easier for me because I’m switching to diesel for everything -heating space and water plus cooking - and won’t need space for them.

Lynne, a disadvantage of the Cool Cat is that it’s floor mounted.

Heat rises. Cold falls. Cool air should float down from a ceiling, not hang around on a floor.

Steve, what’s your secret solution? Curious.


Sergei
[/quote]

Thanks for the post Sergei,
That is the nicest unit I have seen so far. I must have missed it in all my searches because it looks like there is no US dist. Once again, European appliances are a decade ahead. The website did not show any dimensions on the outside unit. Do you have any? I am going to guess that it is too big for a Bambi, however, I might want to put one in my Hobbi Toy hauler.

I agree, most homemade solutions lack refinement in the final touches. I am trying to apply what I have learned by building sport aircraft.

My project is built from scratch and I am sizing it no larger that needed to cool a Bambi in partial shade at 100 f. All wires and cooling lines need to be concealed. The outside unit needs to be no larger than 8"thick and 16" tall by 20" wide. As seen here on other threads, AC in most trailers tend to be too little in full sun and too much at night. The other factor here is power consumption. Right now I am only using 600 watts. At that rate I can run all night on a Honda 2000i for less than 2 gal of fuel. Right now I am at about 6k btu but I think I will go up to about 8k. If The btu capacity is too large then you end up with a cold damp trailer at night and the compressor cycles every 2 min. If the btu is too small you can't cool during the day.

steve

[firefly007]

Sergei,
just took a look at a Canada site that offers the LG unit. It uses an Inverter driven compressor. The big advantage is that the speed of the compressor can be controlled to meet cooling requirements. I wish that RV AC makers would take note. You should have total climate control. (Temp/humidity/No short cycles)

steve

[SmokelessJoe]

Steve:

I got my Art Cool from a distributor in Toronto.

They are available in both the USA and Canada. I’ve seen them in Canada for at least 3 years.

This is the Canadian LG site:

http://ca.lge.com/en/proddivergent.d...rch&categoryId

Here’s the USA one:

http://us.lge.com/products/category/...l%202005.jhtml

I’m going to try to upload the Canadian spec sheet for you, a PDF file.

The inside blower unit is 22” by 22” and 5” deep. It weighs 15 pounds.

The compressor is 30” long by 21” high by 9.5” wide. It weighs 73 pounds.

The total weight involved is 3 or 4 pounds less than the Carrier Low profile, if I remember correctly.

I’ve installed two split units in buildings. They are fantastic.

It remains to be seen how in will work in a trailer but my suspicion is that it will be superior to anything being commonly used now.

We will probably run the wire to the compressor later today. I will place the unit on the tongue and take a photo for you at that time.


Sergei

[SmokelessJoe]

Steve:

I see that our mail crossed mid air. The Brochure file, 4 pages, wouldn't attach. You can easily down load it from the LG Canadian site.

I understand zero about electronics, etc. so I was happy to note your comment on inverter efficiency. I didn't know this. Good news.

Sergei

[firefly007]

Sergei,

thanks for the info, with the new requirements for 13seer many mfgs are starting to use inverter driven systems. An inverter is used to drive the compressor and fans. This allows the computer in an ac to control not only fan speed but also compressor speed. In some aplications the compressor never shuts off. By controlling air flow across the evaporator and evap temp by slowing the compressor down total air quality can be controlled. there is a water cooled marine system out there but not suitable for RV use.
I have read several threads lately concerning poor cooling, humidity and short cycles. The tecnology in your system handles all of those. Too bad the current roof system do ot employ these techniques. RV ac applications are exempt from the 13seer requirement for now so I doubt we will see anything soon.
steve

[Zeppelinium]

All,

Didn't Uwe put a window unit under the bed in a vintage AS and duct the condenser air out the bottom, along the inner edge of the bannana skin? He documented it in one of his long threads on his restoration. It seems to work very well.

[SmokelessJoe]

Zepp:

Uwe has posted to this thread; #23 above.

Sergei

[SmokelessJoe]

Steve;

With only a couple of companies sharing the RV
market, there is not too much incentive to innovate or even keep up technologically.

The other bad thing about RV roof tops is that they are ugly, especially on mid sized to smaller Airstreams.

Sergei

[yukionna]

Apparently, the A/C topic pops up every summer on the forum! I didn't see this thread when I searched for a/c threads. There is lots of good information in this thread: http://www.airforums.com/forum...roof-5298.html

[firefly007]

Thanks Led and Yukionna for the leads.
Hope to test the 8k btu unit this weekend. I am hoping that it is not too much for night use. I am going to use a controller that has a little smarts hoping it wil smooth things out. Getting the air cool in a small trailer is easy, getting it dry at night is harder. Looks like it will use only about 800 watts when cooling and about 85 watts when just circulating. The controller will also shut everything down in between cycles if needed.

steve

[SmokelessJoe]

steve:

have you notified the Patent Office about this yet?

[firefly007]

Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe

steve:

have you notified the Patent Office about this yet?

Joe, thanks for the vote of confidence, but I doubt that the regular consumer is ready. Actually, I already have one Patent in process for Sport Aircraft.

When I finish this project I will share with those who want to build something. Building custom stuff has it's own rewards. The hard part is going to be how to polish and restore this Bambi.

steve

[60pacerhobo]

Just staying in our Pacer to fix up an old house in Carrebelle I got a 5000btu frigidare window rattler.Fit perfect in the kitchen window.Not pretty but works well.probably look for something better for OTR

[firefly007]

Originally Posted by 60pacer

Just staying in our Pacer to fix up an old house in Carrebelle I got a 5000btu frigidare window rattler.Fit perfect in the kitchen window.Not pretty but works well.probably look for something better for OTR

I have a 22' new Toy Hauler that I stay in on weekends. It is under cover so same load as in the shade. Even though I just put a new Carrier low profile on it, I still use the 5K btu window unit. Why? It is very quiet and it keeps the humidity under control. Not practical for on the road but great for now. It only takes 500 watts to run it

Imagine having the same or better performance but not seeing or hearing the sucker.
If I can get my AC tech awake this morning I will make some progress.

Steve
If we don't reach for the clouds we will never learn to fly.

[fastrob]

Originally Posted by uwe

........
I see no way to install a functional a/c without some sacrifices on space, weight and styling...I ended up cutting up the trailer to make mine work, but the results are surprisingly good.
My installation is not finished yet, but once completed, I anticipate an even better air distribution.
The system is about as noisy as a fantastic fan on medium speed. It is located under our bed, and the foam and insulation muffles it considerably. There is little to no vibration. I took a nap on top of it, and it did not bother me one bit.
An installation like that requires some serious modfications, but it is not impossible, and can be done by a hobbyist like myself. There is more information on it, including some recent post at my thread "a 63 for me...."

Uwe,
Thank you for your posts. Your pictures are great also.
R

[muddy_hollow]

I have a 1965 Globetrotter and tried the portable unit last season with only OK results. The biggest drawback was the noise and space used. I finally broke down this year and put in the Carrier Air V and sprayed the cover silver. Looks good and does a good job.


One idea I had considered, but put it on hold due to other more important work issues, was to convert a 10K BTU (or less) 110 house window unit to an outside portable unit and duct the intake and return through insulated hoses, the type typically used in high volume, low pressue home systems either the 2" or 4" insulated ones.

The idea was to take the front cover off and re-create it with two ducted front ends. The both would be tappered. I'm sure there would have to be some other cover on the front to make it weather tight, but the rest of the housing could be left as is. The other step would be to add feet to elevate it off the ground.

The hoses would be fitted to the AC and trailer with the same type of connectors used for an RV septic system.


The modifications to the trailer would be to create an air intake and return vent in the floor with the intake from the AC going into a pellam and then ducted around inside the trailer.

I had thought that the AC could then be stored in the tow vehicle when not in service. We already carry so much stuff, that I suspected this would not be any worse than a portable unit.

The idea would be cool to try, but I'm just to busy at work to tinker with it.

What do others think?

Doug