Socks for the trailer tires?

[tjdonahoe]

50 million miles in a boat?

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

50 million miles in a boat?

50 million square miles of ocean.
The Pacific is over 63 million.

[Vitaver]

Originally Posted by Vitaver

http://www.autosock.com/en/

Colorado DOT has decided to strictly enforce the law making it mandatory to be properly prepared when driving on snow or ice. The consequence of not being adequately equipped would be a fine of 133 dollars increasing to 657 dollars if you end up blocking traffic and possibly even higher if you cause an accident. The definition of being properly prepared is to have at least 1/8 of an inch of thread on your tires and one of the following; 4 wheel-drive, M&S rated tires, chains or the more user friendly alternative to chains: the AutoSock.
AutoSock is the only textile traction device allowed in Colorado.

http://www.9news.com

[Vitaver]

These appear to be the right size for the 2016 FC27 http://autosockshop.mcgeecompany.com...m-number=AS697

[tjdonahoe]

Icy snowy road,blowing snow, it won't be long before the airstream and tow vehicle are in the ditch, or slidding in front of a Peterbilt loaded with drill pipe...some one is dreaming,stay home in bad weather..

[Alluminati]

Chains deepen the effective depth of tread. Autosock eliminates tread depth. I'm not sold. But hey, I will listen to the experts...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIN5zYcpq9A

"...should not be driven over 25-30 miles per hour."

This video makes putting on chains look easy by comparison.

I'll pass.

[Vitaver]

Originally Posted by Alluminati

Chains deepen the effective depth of tread. Autosock eliminates tread depth. I'm not sold. But hey, I will listen to the experts...

"...should not be driven over 25-30 miles per hour."

This video makes putting on chains look easy by comparison.

I'll pass.

Most def! . Yes, forget about those socks, they kind of sock (or similar). Thanks for finding that info and sharing, no socks for my FC, she will go sockless or on bare rubber.

[RadioGuy]

Originally Posted by Vitaver

Colorado DOT has decided to strictly enforce the law making it mandatory to be properly prepared when driving on snow or ice. The consequence of not being adequately equipped would be a fine of 133 dollars increasing to 657 dollars if you end up blocking traffic and possibly even higher if you cause an accident. The definition of being properly prepared is to have at least 1/8 of an inch of thread on your tires and one of the following; 4 wheel-drive, M&S rated tires, chains or the more user friendly alternative to chains: the AutoSock.
AutoSock is the only textile traction device allowed in Colorado.

http://www.9news.com

This post has sure taken some twisting, winding turns. I believe the original question was whether or not to put chains or "SOCKS" on the AS tires.

Now we have debates about what is required by Colorado. But still no one has said whether or not Colorado (or any other state) REQUIRES chains or socks on the trailer. From Colorado's own .gov page, they say the law applies to "Passenger Vehicles" and they also say the chains or socks are to be put on the "DRIVE wheels" Even on 4WD they are only required on TWO wheels. Since the AS neither has DRIVE wheels or Passengers when it is towed it would not require (BY LAW) any additional traction device. Still back to the original question of "Would You Put Them On The Trailer?" Airstream doesn't recommend it.

Now the issue of Tractor-Trailor Semi drivers: Colorado has separate laws governing them and remember they are PROFESSIONAL drivers with significantly more training and more road miles than most AS Owners. So when they "Chain" trailer tires, does it mean you should too? Or would the better option still be to take a clue and get off the road.

[RadioGuy]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

50 million miles in a boat?

Read it again: Sailing solo ON OVER 50 million miles of ocean. Not Sailing 50,000,000 miles!

[RadioGuy]

Originally Posted by overlander63

50 million square miles of ocean.
The Pacific is over 63 million.

Read it again: Sailing solo ON OVER 50 million miles of ocean. It's a writer's prerogative to generalize on things that are of little importance to the subject. And how do we know it is exactly 63 Million Miles and not 63 Million and 1 Mile. The encyclopedia says it is OVER 63 Million so it stands to reason that it would also then be OVER 50 Million Miles.

[ijustlee]

I'd say those are worth a try. Better would studded tires made of the rubber compound that grips water molecules such Gilsavad? brand. Not sure of the spelling but I had a set on my front wheel drive car without studs and if there was snow on the bark that car could climb trees! They wore out very fast though, if you had an extra set of wheels you could put on for snow season that would be the way to go. It seems that in my experience chain controls almost always run you over some bare pavement.

[Vitaver]

[QUOTE=RadioGuy;1868204]

Originally Posted by Vitaver

Those other guys driving on the same icy roads, how do they become my responsility?

Well this was a very humorous and even somewhat enlightening thread. I have to admit I had never heard of AUTOSOCKS before either but after watching the demo video...they sure do work.

I am always amazed at how different people can have so widely different views. But let's be honest. Sailing solo on over 50 million miles of ocean risking nothing but your own life and your boat does not compare with driving in inclement weather on a public highway. EVERYONE you encounter on the road with you is your responsibility. It is not a "Right" but rather a "Privilege" to drive on America's highways. Privileges come with responsibilities. You may have the luxury of pulling off the road or not based upon your preparedness and willingness to drive. Others may have a real NEED to be on the road during treacherous travel situations. Why put them at unnecessary risk because you want the "Thrill" of it.

If you HAVE to travel...do so as safely as possible. If you're looking for excitement... try a high-stakes poker game in Las Vegas, bet on the grey in the 5th, try jumping the Grand Canyon on a Rocket Bike....but don't gamble with others' lives on the highway. You do not have that right!

Just curious of where the 50M miles over the ocean ('under the keel we would say') comes from? Those two crossings where about 1.5K miles each... At 5 knots average.

As for every other driver in the road becoming everyone's else responsibility... yes, we do have different views. I believe in individual responsibility and ownership of own's actions. The obligation to protect is a principle of law that applies to guests on your property. I don't own the road. Every car on the road has the potential to cause jeopardy to any other car. The possibility is there for anyone to get hurt by any other solid object on (or off) the road. What you do with/around/into others is your responsibility. If anything, all the multiple precautions (and their costs) that I take are preventive efforts to keep myself (and others as a result of my doings) safe. Will I stop my journey because somebody else may do something silly, be on ice without preparation, etc.? Nope. Do I replace my judgement with those of others? While I listen and consider, ultimately I make my own decisions. Thanks for sharing.

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by RadioGuy

Read it again: Sailing solo ON OVER 50 million miles of ocean. It's a writer's prerogative to generalize on things that are of little importance to the subject. And how do we know it is exactly 63 Million Miles and not 63 Million and 1 Mile. The encyclopedia says it is OVER 63 Million so it stands to reason that it would also then be OVER 50 Million Miles.

I knew exactly what you were doing.
Forgive me for trying to explain to someone else what you meant.
I can assure you it will never happen again.
Ever.

[Gsmblue]

I have noe experience of using auto socks. I do have experience towing in really snowy conditions. This might get long...

We use our Airstream all year round, including going in and out of ski resorts. We typically do not drive the trailer all the way to the resorts if there is snow or a risk of black ice.

Know your chain laws for the state you are driving in.

Last winter we got caught in a snow storm on the sea to sky highway driving up to Whistler. I pulled over, put chains on, got to safe spot where were waiting out for a while and then a snow plow went past and the snow eased up.

With our hazzards going we got back on the road and made it slowly and safely to the RV park.

So now the details.

1. Our expedition had studies snow tires (Blizzaks)
2. We were in 4 auto in the expedition, traction in the forward direction was not an issue
3. We had drag chains (Thule XG12, size 240) on the rear axle of the Airstream (2015 FC25RB)
4. We had chains available for the expedition.
5. We kept our speed down to 10Mph or less
6. I don't think I touched the brakes at all in these adverse conditions.
7. The worst part of the drive was the access road into the RV park, that was compacted snow and ice with a steep up and down grade.

The last part is probably the only part where the chains were needed.

Reading snowy road conditions is tough, I have 20 years experience and only had 1 accident (not towing!). If we had been in normal BC snow conditions I would have stayed parked up. But it was unusually dry snow and the surface was not slick (not about to go into a snow lesson here, but there are many different types). So we decided to continue.

Safety is a relative term. At no point do I think I was taking any risks, but some people on this forum would not agree with me.

Every situation is different and I have stories where I have decided not to drive on snow. These have mainly been due to compacted snow caused by heavy traffic with no treatment on the road. These are dangerous conditions as you essential are driving on ice and I have delayed driving by days as a result.

Anyhow. This is a very short version of my story take it for what it is worth!

[Countryboy59]

[QUOTE=RadioGuy;1868204]

Originally Posted by Vitaver

Those other guys driving on the same icy roads, how do they become my responsility?

Well this was a very humorous and even somewhat enlightening thread. I have to admit I had never heard of AUTOSOCKS before either but after watching the demo video...they sure do work.

I am always amazed at how different people can have so widely different views. But let's be honest. Sailing solo on over 50 million miles of ocean risking nothing but your own life and your boat does not compare with driving in inclement weather on a public highway. EVERYONE you encounter on the road with you is your responsibility. It is not a "Right" but rather a "Privilege" to drive on America's highways. Privileges come with responsibilities. You may have the luxury of pulling off the road or not based upon your preparedness and willingness to drive. Others may have a real NEED to be on the road during treacherous travel situations. Why put them at unnecessary risk because you want the "Thrill" of it.

If you HAVE to travel...do so as safely as possible. If you're looking for excitement... try a high-stakes poker game in Las Vegas, bet on the grey in the 5th, try jumping the Grand Canyon on a Rocket Bike....but don't gamble with others' lives on the highway. You do not have that right!

Take reasonable care but don't try to carry the world on your shoulders. There is some degree of risk in everything.

[PKI]

http://www.landlinemag.com/Magazine/...ne/chains.aspx

The above link is worth reading. Googled it up to find out what drag chains are. Logical, just never heard the term used.

The primary point I learned was that cables are not considered to be the same as chains when chain only traction device controls are in place.

Suspect it is a commercial truck traction concern as mentioned by a previous post. Glad to know about the issue though.

Travel safe. Pat

[Vitaver]

"Sailing solo on over 50 million miles of ocean risking nothing but your own life " The crossings were a whole lot more modest than that, about 1.5K miles each way. As for the risk to others while sailing (solo or otherwise) is not quite a jeopardy to oneself. There are collisions in mid ocean and when a vessel gets in trouble, our Coast Guard puts their own life on the line to effect a rescue. These heros did such when picking up a perronitis stricken crew from my deck 400 miles out, in a storm.

People have different views of towing a house with them and they are all legitimate and worth of respect. While some just move a house to enjoy 'a hotel' wherever they want with your own private mattress and bedding for exclusive use (not a bad idea), others add different degrees of adventure to it. Adventure necesites the element of risk: effort, lack of comfort when uncontrollable events (I.e. Weather, breakdowns, unpredicted road closures, the unexpected and unplanned for, etc.). It is human nature that some of us are more risk adverse than others. On the other end, some of us want/enjoy/need various levels of adrenaline and thrive on the unexpected, sort of challenges we seek to overcome.

As for responsibility for others who chose to be on a hostile, even dangerous environment (such as an icy road), I believe on this too as an issue of personal responsibility and option. They are sharing the same road, at the same time, as me. Wheather as a playground, or workaround, it is still our option to be there. From reading my post one can see my concern with preparation, anticipation of risky, even extreme conditions, and to be adequately equipped (and trained) to deal with such. Still, when we chose to put ourselves under challenging conditions and to move on, I believe in personal responsibility for own's safety. BTW, this mindset helped me well, and saved my own and my crew's butt on a few instances. I am translating this concept into a more unpredictable and potentially harmful environment: American roads. The spirit is the same, just older with more miles under my keel

[tjdonahoe]

Now that is on my list to go on a sailboat ride, but not in the middle of 50 million miles of ocean, staying within seeing distance of shore....another thing when the roads are very bad, icy and blowing snow some autos driving 10 mph,the trucks making a run up the next hill running 50 or better, if you go slower you loose your momentum and could slide off the road , run on the edge of the road where no other tracks are,and hope there are some gravels there, what happens to the 10 mph auto who is unexperienced and scared ? You should stay home

[JamuJoe]

Vitavar,

I'm enjoying your posts regarding winter travel. With the overwhelmingly negative replies, I'm sure that you are appreciating all of the 'stay home' advice

The socks are a legal substitute for chains and get favorable reviews for temporary use. I considered them, but opted for chains. I believe that my M&S tires are better naked than with socks.

Living in SW CO, I carry Thule XG12 Pro chains. Very low profile, easy to mount and remove. My Jeep GC with adjustable air suspension has very little clearance in the aero and park modes, and these chains fit fine. I haven't tried them on the Airstream, but I feel sure that they would fit. Except for one trial run, I've never used them. The Michelin LTX M&S tires on the Jeep have brought us through the worst of winter conditions. I have the same tires on the Airstream for the same reasons.

I try to avoid towing in snow (though we've been caught out several times), but we do travel from CO in winter, so I like being prepared.

Safe Travels,
Joe

ps: The greatest risk on the road today is from distracted driving - cell phones and other gadgets. There is no way to protect yourself from the fool talking or texting while driving.

[Vitaver]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

Now that is on my list to go on a sailboat ride, but not in the middle of 50 million miles of ocean, staying within seeing distance of shore....another thing when the roads are very bad, icy and blowing snow some autos driving 10 mph,the trucks making a run up the next hill running 50 or better, if you go slower you loose your momentum and could slide off the road , run on the edge of the road where no other tracks are,and hope there are some gravels there, what happens to the 10 mph auto who is unexperienced and scared ? You should stay home

Actually you'll be surprised but most accidents on ships ocurr nearshore where there are shallows and hard things to hit/hit you. Look as a boat as a cork, maybe bounce around some (and you can heave-to slowing the motion to a magical quiet) but fiberglass is incredibly strong. A well built vessel will not let water in, even if rolled till the pointy thing aims all the way down. It comes back. Just close all hatches, companionway, put out the lee clothes to hold you in your bunk and wait it out. The further out (you don't want a lee shore) the safer. Boat, AS trailer is home, just bring it with you . As for big rigs doing 50 on a downhill, that is an issue I don't have completely clear yet. Yes, they need the momentum for the next climb and while on the same leftmost lane, I stay under 50 when conditions tell me to. While in Colorado (at least on I70) there are road signs mandating trucks to drive only on that lane, I have been passed by countless 18 wheelers that promptly return to the left lane after passing me. Feel for those guys, but on my last trip down to Denver there was possibility of ice on the road, it was dark and following the advice kindly given to me by many on these pages, I was more conservative than usual in controlling my speed. The shoulder on I70 E is not an option but a rail or a precipice in large portions. What do other drivers do in similar conditions?