Trojan Lithium

[GMFL]

Trojan has a new Lithium battery line
https://www.trojanbattery.com/trillium/

[68 Overlander]

Originally Posted by GMFL

Trojan has a new Lithium battery line
https://www.trojanbattery.com/trillium/

They have been out awhile..What we are finding is little difference on AH and case construction most in the 100 AH range. Most have an internal BMS and will have a 10 year warranty and claim 3000-6000 cycles of which we would need to live 150 years to realize I guess we can put them in our wills! Nothing wrong with Trojan batteries. Always been a fan.

[mythbuster88]

LiFePO4 batteries should mandatory.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Is the price a mystery on 'em?...🥴
Too skeered to list on the website?

Bob
🇺🇸

[GMFL]

Yes I have looked for price everywhere and have not found one yet.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by GMFL

Yes I have looked for price everywhere and have not found one yet.

I checked for a dealer in my area, thought I'd call and find out, closest one listed on their site is 500mi away, not that curious. 😂

Bob
🇺🇸

[AirMiles]

The following is a quote from a Marine-How-To article discussing the new Trojan Lithium battery. The whole article is worth a read for those considering a Lithium upgrade. https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/

In late October 2018 Trojan battery officially announced their entrance into the LiFePO4 market. The initial formats are supposed to be a Group 24 92Ah 12V and a 110Ah Group 27 12V format.

I was told the batteries will be using 26650 cylindrical LiFePO4 cells and the batteries, only the group 24 version initially, will be able to communicate externally using the CAN-bus protocol. Kudo’s to Trojan on developing a “drop-in” LFP battery that features external communication! On top of CAN-bus external communication the batteries have a 250A (G24) or 300A (G27) continuous discharge / contactor rating. Trojan is using real contactors not cheap mosfet switching, and they can handle as much as 350A (G24) or 400A (G27) for 30 seconds.

Robust BMS contactors is not something we’ve seen out of any of the Chinese “drop-ins“. The Trillium batteries can also be charged at up to 1C or 110A for the 110Ah battery. Trojan has also addressed cold weather charging and gives charging guidance, in drastically reduced amperage, based on temperature. According to Trojan, the new Trillium LiFePO4 batteries were designed & engineered in the US and are currently being built & assembled here, at least for now.

The 26650 cells (26mm diameter X 65mm long) used inside the Trillium’s are not being manufactured by Trojan but, they are built to Trojan’s specifications under contract in China. The release date for the Trillium’s is slated for sometime in Q1 2019. We may possibly see them as early as Jan but an inside source hinted we may see some ship out before the end of the year. Pricing has not yet been disclosed (possibly by December 2018) but I was told they are supposed to be “competitive” with pricing aimed directly at similar “drop-in“competitors. Warranty, if it stays at what we were told, seems excellent but it is not yet set in stone either..

Trojan’s entry into LFP, I believe, helps to legitimize the underlying LiFePo4 chemistry. I also know other “reputable” US battery manufacturers are working on this too. Up until Trojan entering the LFP arena, the “drop-in” market has been flooded with US based sticker application companies not by actual battery manufacturers who have a long term hard earned reputation to uphold.. As soon as I get more information on the new Trojan Trillium batteries I will be sure to let readers know.

Also, On 11/6/2018 "Trojan Battery Company and Charlesbank Capital Partners Announce that C&D Technologies will Acquire the Trojan Business" http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/Tro...gies_Final.pdf

Big changes in the deep-cycle battery business!

[ROBERT CROSS]

So...Trojan is putting it together and who is manufacturing the cells? Are their cells proprietary or generic?

Bob
🇺🇸

[TouringDan]

AirMiles

Thanks for the “marine how to” article on lithium batteries. Pretty technical and eye opening.

Dan

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

So...Trojan is putting it together and who is manufacturing the cells? Are their cells proprietary or generic?

Bob
🇺🇸

Hi

Based on the quoted article, the cells are made in China (just like everybody else's) and then assembled into the housing in the USA.

From the comment about "competitive", one would guess that the price is going to be around $1,000 each. Is that $900 at a dealer? .... who knows ....

Since the underlying chemistry of all the cells is the same, it is interesting that Trojan is talking about both discharge *and* charge down to -20C / -4F. They also are talking about -40C / -40F as being an acceptable "storage" temperature. Both are a bit more that what other manufacturers have committed to on spec sheets.

As with a lot of "things lithium" we'll only know just how crazy or how accurate some of this is years from now. Do we get (to Randy's point) 150 years out of a set? Can we charge them at 0F and still be ok? Can we leave then in the trailer all winter long?

One other cute thing to note - most batteries are rated for life in terms of 80% capacity. In this case Trojan is using 70%..... That's not a knock on Trojan, just an observation.

Bob

[pdavitt]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi
Since the underlying chemistry of all the cells is the same, it is interesting that Trojan is talking about both discharge *and* charge down to -20C / -4F. They also are talking about -40C / -40F as being an acceptable "storage" temperature. Both are a bit more that what other manufacturers have committed to on spec sheets.

As with a lot of "things lithium" we'll only know just how crazy or how accurate some of this is years from now. Do we get (to Randy's point) 150 years out of a set? Can we charge them at 0F and still be ok? Can we leave then in the trailer all winter long?
Bob

That is interesting, Victron is going the other way. They just announced a change to the minimum charging temperature for their Smart LiFePO4 batteries. They also announced that charging below 5C voids the warranty.



"The recently released version of the VictronConnect App now includes an update for Victron Energy’s Lithium Smart batteries (12.8V & 25.6V). The update (via the app) now wisely disables battery-charging when the battery cell temperature is below 5 degrees C - as charging at lower temperatures accelerates battery degradation."


Pat

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by pdavitt

That is interesting, Victron is going the other way. They just announced a change to the minimum charging temperature for their Smart LiFePO4 batteries. They also announced that charging below 5C voids the warranty.



"The recently released version of the VictronConnect App now includes an update for Victron Energy’s Lithium Smart batteries (12.8V & 25.6V). The update (via the app) now wisely disables battery-charging when the battery cell temperature is below 5 degrees C - as charging at lower temperatures accelerates battery degradation."


Pat

Hi

Just to toss in a bit more comparison info - BB seems to cut off charging right around freezing (0C / 32F) with their BMS. They allow limited discharge below that point, but don't recommend you go below -4F. Minimum storage temperature is not mentioned ....

One other note - I have no big plans for routinely using my batteries at below freezing temperatures. They may see operation there, but it would be rare. My guess is that I am not unusual in this respect.

To the earlier point of "150 years to know the answer", typical use may not get you cold enough / long enough to really know about accelerated wear out (to Victron's point) down there. We've all been worried about instant destruction. If it just takes 20 years off of the expected 150, I'll never know ....

While I *do* have a lot of respect for Trojan, this is a pre-release data sheet. I'm sure they have done some testing and it is based on that. However, it would not be the first time ever that an early spec sheet turned out to be a bit off the mark .... In the case of cold weather issues, come back in about a year and a half

Bob