Help me Pimp my Airstream (AC-wise)

[CMHM]

Hey all, I just drove across the US in my new 2021 27FB Globetrotter and have been bringing someone quite useless along: my 3500W Champion Dual Generator.

I obviously made a newbie mistake of buying the Generator before doing my research (about installing Micro-Air Easy Starts to my two ACs.)

I have 2 Battleborn Lithium batteries, 4 x 90W solar panels and I boon-dock all the time. My batteries are usually back at 100% by 8am with the first few hours of sunshine. But having a dog with me, AC is now essential over the Summer and I have a few questions that I wasn't able to answer myself:

- if I install two Micro-Air Starters, will I ever need 50amp power again? Could I downgrade to a 30amp cable only (for shore connection). That would reduce a lot of weight and hassle.

- do I need a different inverter? If so, which one?

- I have seen tests with people running one AC off their Lithium batteries, is that just theory or is it doable?

- once I have the starters installed, which dual fuel generator do you recommend? Most of the smaller ones have a standard 15amp plug, I thought I need minimum 30amp?!

Finally, if anyone wants my brand new Champion 3500, I am driving through Pennsylvania now, JC next week and then through Kansas to Colorado. Happy to drop it off...

[wulfraat]

Question - if I install two Micro-Air Starters, will I ever need 50amp power again? Could I downgrade to a 30amp cable only (for shore connection). That would reduce a lot of weight and hassle.


50A is a big benefit when not boondocking, you want 50A so you can do useful things while running the ACs like charge your batteries or run the microwave. Just buy an adapter for 30A. There are better 50A cords you can buy online that are more flexible / easier to deal with. Remember you loose 3% of generator output for each 1,000 feet of elevation gain above sea level.



Question- do I need a different inverter? If so, which one?

Depends what you want to do. Run the microwave off batts? Yes need to move to a 2000w and re-wire a few things. Run one air conditioner off batts? Need to move to a more sophisticated 3000w hybrid charger / inverter with much more Re-wiring.


Question - I have seen tests with people running one AC off their Lithium batteries, is that just theory or is it doable?

Yes I do it. It ain’t cheap. In the real world when it’s hot out you get about 20-25 minutes of runtime for one air conditioner (not both) for each $1000 of lithium batteries, thereabouts (not including additional costs of inverter, wiring, labor for complete Re-wire of your main panel, etc). 600ah is minimum in my opinion to run a single air con for any amount of time. 1000ah is more ideal. Hybrid inverters like the victron multiplus will take power from both a generator / shore power source and combine with batteries to reduce battery draw. I can run all day on a small honda 2000 + larger 600ah battery bank + 800w of solar. On a sunny day I get about 225-250ah to the batteries from 800w of solar.



Question - once I have the starters installed, which dual fuel generator do you recommend? Most of the smaller ones have a standard 15amp plug, I thought I need minimum 30amp?!

If you want to run both air conditioners at the same time you should keep your 3500w genset. Alternative is two smaller 2200w units that are combined with parallel cables to deliver 30A continuous to your trailer. If you only ever want to run one generator you can get by with a single 2200w generator which will give you about 1800w continuous at sea level. You lose 3% output for each 1000 feet of elevation gain. I often camp at 9,000 feet here in the Rockies and only get about 1,100-1,200 watts continuous from my 2000w generator.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Your A/C units will pull something in the 12 to 16A range at 120V. If the voltage "bogs down" to 110V, that could go up to 18A. That's each, and does not include startup surge. The easy start stuff only deals with the 45A (or so) starting surge.

If you are running a pair, (and they both are running) that gets you somewhere from 24 to 36A. If your generator is putting out 120 V when the voltage at the trailer is 110, it needs to be rated for 36 x 120 = 4320 W. If you feel lucky 24A at 120V would be 2880 W.

Bottom line, you aren't going to run a pair of A/C's ( = both on at the same time) on a generator with a max output of 2,200 W.

The same numbers apply to inverters.

Bob

[Foiled Again]

Answer: YOU own it, YOU decide.
My opinion? You are now well on your way to becoming an "Airstream Prophet and Sage." Go forth and teach the unanointed that thou shalt not buy thousands of dollars worth of stuff until thou hast traveled in thy silver palace for at least three months. Yea verily, disobey this prohibition and thou shall rend thy garments, cover thy face in sackcloth and ashes, destroy thy savings and contemplate starting over with yet MORE expenses and regrets.
WE have all done some form of over-buying as newbies so first, do not get down on yourself, and more importantly, don't jump into any more big changes right away. Stay with what you have for a few.more months, and then change whatever simply does not fit with your real needs.
There are worse things than having a generator that is overkill. A tornado comes through your neighborhood, and no ones well pump works. You drive around and help everyone fill their tubs and lined garbage cans with water. You get all your neighbors to bring over their portable ice makers and that keeps everyone's food from spoiling. I was in a campground in February when a freak ice storm hit and we had no.power for five days. I loaned two generators out and other people (younger and better dressed for the weather) went around charging batteries for mohos, fifth wheels and trailers like mine. They also got at least 50 propane tanks filled at Tractor Supply. Got some good karma (and brandy) from that!
As for that dammed heavy 50 Amp cord. Get two new flexible ones 10 feet and 25-40 feet. Or chop the stiffy that came with the trailer into two shorter ones. Use the shortest one that works at each site.

[kidjedi]

For the size difference between your 3500 and anything smaller that will power an a/c (even with the micro air), I'd say stick with the 3500. That said... I'd be interested in the generator when you're passing through Colorado.

[Wazbro]

Originally Posted by CMHM

Hey all, I just drove across the US in my new 2021 27FB Globetrotter and have been bringing someone quite useless along: my 3500W Champion Dual Generator.

I obviously made a newbie mistake of buying the Generator before doing my research (about installing Micro-Air Easy Starts to my two ACs.)

I see what you mean that 3150 watt generator might not be able to run both ACs at the same time even with Easy Starts. Definitely can't run anything else. As far as 30 amp service, Maybe you can run both ACs and nothing else in some campgrounds IF they have excellent power.

[GetawA-S]

Why exactly did you fall out of love with the champion? It’s the second most popular brand among RVers, will run one A/C and a few other things, is not totally humongous, and gives you the propane option. Do you feel you need something that will run EVERYTHING ANYWHERE ANYTIME? That’s a tall order. Or are you willing to seek hookups or make accommodations when the heat is extreme?
I agree with Foiled Again. For the impulsive camper, things can get prohibitively expensive, without being any more fun.
Happy camping!

[CMHM]

Thank you all for your answers. With Wulfraats expertise and Foiled Again's writing skills we should create a guide and call it 'Pimp My Airstream'

So to summarize, these are the options:

1- keep the current set-up, and run 1 AC from my 3500W Champion when boon docking

2- install one micro-air and benefit to run one AC from a house 15A plug, or from a minimum 2500W inverter to account for high-altitude camping, such as this one: Champion Dual Fuel 2500W

3- install two micro-air to benefit also from running from ACs at a 30A campground

4- spend $10,000 and run it from min. 6 Battleborn batteries. Battleborn and Micro-Air are actually working on this, see here.

Please let me know if I outlined these options correctly, and also if you can post links to those more flexible 50A boa constrictors, aka power cords.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by CMHM

Thank you all for your answers. With Wulfraats expertise and Foiled Again's writing skills we should create a guide and call it 'Pimp My Airstream'

So to summarize, these are the options:

1- keep the current set-up, and run 1 AC from my 3500W Champion when boon docking

2- install one micro-air and benefit to run one AC from a house 15A plug, or from a minimum 2500W inverter to account for high-altitude camping, such as this one: Champion Dual Fuel 2500W

3- install two micro-air to benefit also from running from ACs at a 30A campground

4- spend $10,000 and run it from min. 6 Battleborn batteries. Battleborn and Micro-Air are actually working on this, see here.

Please let me know if I outlined these options correctly, and also if you can post links to those more flexible 50A boa constrictors, aka power cords.

Hi

Even with two soft start gizmos, you likely will be at / over the current limit for a 30A circuit when running two A/C units. This is a great way to burn out bits and pieces of your electrical system.

Bob

[LilPeanut]

What wulfraat said. I also have 600Ah and carry a Honda 2200 plus 1000W of solar. Solar charges the batteries. GE set is for AC when needed, both have soft starts. But if you need to run both ACs the temp and sun might make it impossible to keep cool. Sometimes the energy of the sun is greater than the cooling ability of 2 ACs no matter what power you have. If I need 2 ACs, I head for the shade or leave unless I have hookups. Shade makes a bigger difference than a pile of batteries.

Without hookups (or only 15A) = shade if it is really hot. Been in Tampa for 5 weeks on 15A in the shade for 5 weeks, just fine. Would have been fine with my 2200. I don’t know that it would have worked if I had been in the sun. Same power and one AC would not have kept the rig cool. 2 ACs would have run full time in the full sun. I don’t like to do that on a genset. Just not very efficient.

[CMHM]

I'm in JC now, and they have the Microair Easy-Start in stock. Question then is, getting one or two? Bob above said that I wouldn't be able to safely run both on 30amp?

How much quieter are they, that would be a benefit for getting them for both Acs.

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by CMHM;

I'm in JC now, and they have the Microair Easy-Start in stock. Question then is, getting one or two? Bob above said that I wouldn't be able to safely run both on 30amp?



How much quieter are they, that would be a benefit for getting them for both Acs.

I installed two. In addition to having flexibility to run either AC off reduced power, they reduce startup wear on the compressor motor, hopefully lengthening it’s lifespan…. In theory anyways.

[CMHM]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

I installed two. In addition to having flexibility to run either AC off reduced power, they reduce startup wear on the compressor motor, hopefully lengthening it’s lifespan…. In theory anyways.

And you can run them both on 30amp service?

[wulfraat]

Yes.

Did it once at an older campground in CO. Melted my 30A adapter plug based on the continuous draw at ~max amperage for the shore power outlet

[Foiled Again]

Repeat the following mantra: It is Camping. Camping Get Away From it All, NOT to Drag it All Along With You.

The difference between NEEDS and WANTS... (1) How much cash can you blow.with no regrets? (2) How often will you need to use it? and (3) For what duration? (4) what is it going to cost?

I only have one A/C and few small portable fans. I upgraded the air from 13.5 to 15K. I use a fan to push air around when humidity is bad.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

I installed two. In addition to having flexibility to run either AC off reduced power, they reduce startup wear on the compressor motor, hopefully lengthening it’s lifespan…. In theory anyways.

Hi

Most AC motors die when the starter winding gives out. Strange as it may seem, slowing down the start process puts more stress on the starter winding compared to doing it quickly. Does this have any real impact? .... call back in 20 years ....

Bob

[Mollysdad]

I think of the generator as I would a fire extinguisher or a first aid kit.
I may not need it, but when I do, I need it now!
Let the Champion ride.

[prostar]

[QUOTE=CMHM;2512729]I'm in JC now, and they have the Microair Easy-Start in stock. Question then is, getting one or two? Bob above said that I wouldn't be able to safely run both on 30amp?

How much quieter are they, that would be a benefit for getting them for both Acs.[/QUOTE

Get 2 and get the new Bluetooth model easy starts. Much quieter startup

[CMHM]

I got two, unfortunately they didn’t have the Bluetooth ones in stock.

[CMHM]

So I am at a Harvest Host site with 30amp shore power and was running one AC. I wanted to see if I could turn the second one on and it started without any problem! I have nothing else running and I am in a 2021 Globetrotter.

How is this possible?!!

PS: I have never tried this before.