Water ingress

[Punch]

I am replacing carpet in my 345 at the front. Lifting the old stuff I found rotten wood in the passenger footwell area, apparently radiating back from the front right corner, and also wood rot down on the main level, again at the front right corner, so behind and below the passenger seat. There is no sign of previous damp on the walls. Since when you find something like this in one vehicle it turns out to be a common problem, I was wondering if it sounds familiar to anyone out there, and what direction I should be going to try and prevent this happening again. Luckily the steel plate underneath (so far) appears rusty but sound.

Bob

[Isuzusweet]

I've been there and have the T shirt. In my Mistress thread I did post photos of mis-drilled holes for my front corner marker lights that I'm sure was letting in water into the cockpit, HOWEVER I did get lucky and found no damage to my subfloor in the cockpit area due to the gazillion layers of foam.

Your water problems could be a clogged drain hose from your interior A/C coil or top marker lamps or the base of the spot lamp. Water also has been known to enter at the top of the windshield gasket.

The link below will give you an indication of what could be in your future. As I write in the thread, that just because the top layer of plywood looks good, doesn't mean that the rot hasn't travelled a long way away.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f311...me-106269.html

Cheers
Tony

[Gregsch]

Had the same problem in my MH.. Not exactly sure what caused it. Possibly water spray from the front tire. It seems to me they could have designed a better inner fender. I replaced the plywood with Coosa bd. No more worries about water.

[dadstoy]

Bob,

I have that same t-shirt that Tony has and I have had/still have the same leaks that you have.

The cab leak is from the windshield, but I'm not sure it is the windshield gasket. It leaks at the top of the center pillar and drips onto the dash. That water then runs off the end of the dash and onto the floor a the front right cab area ahead of the passenger seat.

The leak on the main floor in the right front corner is coming in right there from the wall right in that corner.

We only had two separate days this last winter where it rained...a few other days that it "sprinkled". So I know I still have these leaks and there was no opportunity to fix them since the temps this summer have been up to 112 degrees and we are not allowed to use water expect for human consumption/needs.

In past winters, I have taped and gooped up the running lights and windshield gasket to the point of ugliness and it still leaks so I'm guessing the leaks are not in those areas.

Last winter what I did do is add temporary gutters at the front and rear of the awning rail so that these gutters extended well off the roof and side not allowing water to run down the side at all.

If the water does run off the awing rail at the front and runs right down the side of the motor home along the vertical seem, I get water leaking in from the wall right at that right front main floor corner.

One thing that I have also done, the two times it rained, is to level the motor home so that rain water only runs off the rear awning rail, again doing that there is no leak up front.

I have previously caulked the awning rain and the rivets along the rail.

Dean

[dadstoy]

Originally Posted by Gregsch

Had the same problem in my MH.. Not exactly sure what caused it. Possibly water spray from the front tire. It seems to me they could have designed a better inner fender. I replaced the plywood with Coosa bd. No more worries about water.

That's another area for the water to get in that corner of the main floor. On the driver's side, I could actually see daylight through that corner! I have sealed up the passenger side and have the driver's side to do very soon!

[mayco]

The heater core on my 310 is located right in front of the passenger seat, not sure about the location on the 345. There is a removable panel directly in front of the seat and below the dash. If thats where your heater core is located then you may want to check it out for leaks also. Youve got two hose connections and the core itself as potential leak sources.

Mike

[PeterH-350LE]

My AC was installed without a drain pan and tube, so i was able to watch the path of the water run down to the awning rail, dripped down the seam passed the awning support bracket, ran over to the passenger window all the way to the upper corner of the passenger side windshield gasket, eventually running like a little stream from inside above the passenger side window ABS molding.
I found entry points at:
Awning bracket screws or rivets, all along the top of the passenger window and the corner of the windshield gasket.
The worse leak was at beginning curve of the passenger window where the roof panel ends.
I was able to stick a flat blade deep into several places. Seeing old sealer doesn't mean anything. I cleaned it up by removing all old sealer and washed the cracks out with Lacquer thinner, then shoved Vulkem116 deep inside the cracks. so far so good for that entry point

[Punch]

Thanks for all the information, and a special award to the Horror Shows from Dean and Tony!

Some very good information, some confirming what I'd guessed, and then a bunch of things to check out: I can believe the AC vent or heater core as a source in the cockpit. The ventilation grille at passenger foot level had completely rotted wood framing its lower edge, as if that might have been the source of much water. The roof AC's seem to have drain pans etc., but I am not sure the dash AC has an outflow.

I can also very much see that on the main floor area, water channeled at high velocity and pressure by the tire into the inner fender well could indeed be the main source there. There is nothing to shield it, and there seems to be a gap or gaps there. I haven't looked on the driver side because of the sofa yet...... do I want to? I guess I shall!

My "subfloor" seems to be an OSB rather than a plywood, but must be original, since the carpet on top seems original, and the self drilling screws too. It rots very well and turns into something like cornflakes with probably about the same nutritional value....

Coosa board is new to me and looks interesting, but maybe expensive. I was thinking of using very dense rubber stall matting (and it's free because I have 5/8" and 3/4" offcuts sitting in the store shed) with butyl rubber caulk between it and the sound wood behind it, and also some drain holes in the steel sheet. I will try to solve the leaks, but doing it this way then hopefully water will do no further harm and just flow out. There is no such thing as a totally dry RV, I don't think.

Bob

[streamquest]

As another possibility, I believe there is also a drain (with hose hopefully still attached) that clears water from the lower sliding window channel. This should run down from the window and exit through the bottom somewhere below?? Just a thought.

[Keyair]

Yes, all of the above leak points plus the sliding side windows.
Because of the curve of the MH body side, the inside of the sliding glass channel is actually lower than the outside. I have watched water run off my roof(when it used to rain in CA!), run down the side windows, fill up the lower channel, and cascade inside over the side trim. The glass channel seal, or "Fuzzy Schlegle" should have holes punched in the bottom of it upon installation. If not, or like mine, they were blocked with silt, that's a leak source.

[Punch]

Thanks for both the above. I shall add the window drain and channel to the list.

[wxbuoy]

I not only got the tshirt, but the whole 3 piece suit!

The most helpfull thing I found to trace leaks is put down construction paper from the big box store. Next time it rains sit in side. It is readily apparent if raining in or wicking up. I torn out all the old cockpit floor and chased leaks before I went further. Still have paper down in salon. It passed the leak test during last night rain storm. So now I can put the new flooring in..... After a few other projects.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[wxbuoy]

Here is my replacement of the cockpit flooring. It starts at post 194 on page 14 and goes to page 15 with the final product. Caution, I would not view this on an full stomach or before going to bed. You could end up nauseous with bad dreams all night!

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f311...-99706-14.html

[ericpeltier]

Originally Posted by Punch

something like cornflakes with probably about the same nutritional value....

Unfounded statements like this are not tolerated on airforums. I suggest you eat these flakes for breakfast for a week and tell us how you feel. Do it for us, do it for science.



Eric

[Punch]

OK, Eric.... I apologize sincerely. Cornflakes probably have nowhere near the nutritional value of rotted OSB.......

Science can go eat its own cornflakes.

=======================

Dave.... thanks for the link to your cabin floor fix... wow! That looks just like mine! I am still hoping the driver side is sounder having removed much carpet and not found rot, but I won't be placing any bets.

Are you sure it is the side window seals? My rot seems to originate right at the front in the foot air vent area, although it could just have crept forward to there.

I looked at the AC drain hose, shown below, and pushed a thin wire up it. My wire went up about 32" above the steel subfloor plate level before meeting resistance I couldn't wiggle past. That seems pretty far.

drain hose.JPG


I don't know how to get at the connection point between this hose and the AC unit..... is it behind this plate, that looks as if it is secured by a dozen screws or so?

front rot 02.jpg

My floor on the passenger side looks just like yours. I shall hopefully have time to cut the rot out tomorrow and get some caulk and sound material in there. Luckily the wood seems sound near both seat belt attachment points.

front rot 01.JPG


Keeping my fingers crossed on the driver side!

[wxbuoy]

Bob, to rule out the a/c. You will have to take off the inside cover. You will see we're the rubber tube exits the drain pan. Disconnect and blow air through. Helpful if some one is at other end as we to see if air is coming out or tube is broke somewhere in wall. For window drains you can put a small cup below tube by front wheels. Then spray windows with water. You are looking for water in the cup.... Draining from window slides out through tube and water/wetness inside floor by panel.

Panels are easy to take off.... Once chairs are out haha!

[Punch]

Thanks Dave.... I shall follow your directions.

[Punch]

It looks as if the whole problem has been due to the passenger side window drain hose being blocked. I managed eventually to get thin wire down it and it drains fine, but must have been blocked for years and years and years......
This seems to be something to check on an annual basis at least, and is very easy. The drain hole is visible in the window channel in the front section and 3 foot of thin wire should wiggle its way down there..... I squirted silicon grease down the hole to help the wire on its way.

I removed the vinyl panel



Shouldn't have.... didn't need to. Now I'll have a lot of rivets to replace. Actually I shall attempt to replace the rivets with screws, so that the job will be easy next time. To remove the panel, you have to drill out the vertical line of rivets at the rear edge of the panel, and then remove (gently, with a thin, flat paint scraper) the thin woodgrain plastic, then remove the central plastic panel behind the woodgrain, then drill out all the top horizontal line of rivets. The panel then lifts up for pulling outwards. There are more rivets at the front that I did not bother removing, because the panel will now swing out for access. Don't do it unless you have to.

This was a nice motorhome when I bought it.... but it doesn't look so pretty now!



...... but at least the driver's side doesn't look bad at all.




Almost at the shopvac stage. A little more disaster restoration than I had anticipated.

[streamquest]

Bob,

Glad to hear that you found the source of the leak. It's amazing how you can go from a nicely carpeted interior to a demolition project so quickly!

If it makes you feel any better, mine was MUCH worse on BOTH sides.

[PeterH-350LE]

In the long run, it may be more prudent to leave some strategic drains with a screen to keep the critters out...
My first Moho, a 79 Excella did not have the factory installed drain tubes. I finally gave up chasing some persistent leaks and installed a small funnel in the wall connected to a tube in the right front area. Got you sucker!