Martin's Argosy Rebuild Thread

[chevy2man]

I’d do a LQ9/4L80E swap and turbo it before a putting a Ford eco boost in an Argosy.

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by chevy2man

I’d do a LQ9/4L80E swap and turbo it before a putting a Ford eco boost in an Argosy.

But is that going to double the miles I get per liter?

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

But is that going to double the miles I get per liter?

More than likely not. Bella might be a more peppy with a turbo but that always comes at a cost of mpg.

Electric conversion kits are SO close to being the best alternative but they aren't quite there yet, at least as far as price goes.

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by bkahler

More than likely not. Bella might be a more peppy with a turbo but that always comes at a cost of mpg.

Electric conversion kits are SO close to being the best alternative but they aren't quite there yet, at least as far as price goes.

I agree Brad.

Bella doesn't need anymore get up and go (the little 350 with GearVendor OD easily keeps up with UK 'motorway' traffic).

Maybe electronic ignition, fuel injection, and a change of rear axle drive ratio could could help as a short term solution until something better comes along?

[Magnet18]

Originally Posted by martin300662

I agree Brad.

Bella doesn't need anymore get up and go (the little 350 with GearVendor OD easily keeps up with UK 'motorway' traffic).

Maybe electronic ignition, fuel injection, and a change of rear axle drive ratio could could help as a short term solution until something better comes along?

Still haven't had my system professionally tuned, but unfortunately I saw no significant mileage difference. I wasn't looking for mileage though, I was looking for power, and it delivered there. (Side note, having watched this system and peters OE system both run, the OE system sprays droplets of fuel in, and this thing creates an atomized fog of fuel)

I'm sure it could be tuned for mileage if desired, but I would be shocked if I could get more than 1-2mpg out of it at most. But your 350 pulling much less weight with a different intake and exhaust may have better luck.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Magnet18

Still haven't had my system professionally tuned, but unfortunately I saw no significant mileage difference. I wasn't looking for mileage though, I was looking for power, and it delivered there. (Side note, having watched this system and peters OE system both run, the OE system sprays droplets of fuel in, and this thing creates an atomized fog of fuel)

I'm sure it could be tuned for mileage if desired, but I would be shocked if I could get more than 1-2mpg out of it at most. But your 350 pulling much less weight with a different intake and exhaust may have better luck.

My guess is the OEM throttle body should atomize the fuel but due to age, wear, etc probably doesn't do a very good job of that anymore.

My 454 will differ from most TBI conversions in that I am using the original OEM components except for the intake manifold and cam. I have a Comp Cams low rpm high torque camshaft installed along with a Performer 2 Edelbrock intake manifold that is also supposed to help torque up through 5500 rpms. We ALL know running a 454 at 5500 rpms wouldn't happen for very long!

What any of this will do for mileage is unknown at this point. We might know more if/when it gets driven to Arkansas

[chevy2man]

Originally Posted by martin300662

But is that going to double the miles I get per liter?

Nope, but you’ll get there a lot faster. [emoji6].

[AirStreamMar]

Originally Posted by martin300662

Hmmm....so.....
...
1) LGP conversion (same mileage/half price fuel) - 'Autogas' is in decline in Europe
...

Hi Martin,
I'm just getting my 290 with the 454 engine here and will pick it up with the mechanics on Wednesday from the port.
Actually it's running well (hopefully), it was driving 300 miles before shipment to Europe and also no issues when it was loaded and unloaded from the RoRo ferry.
Next step - beside the modifications to European regulations - will be the addition of the LPG system. It will not be a conversion as I have to keep the regular fuel to get it registered as an "antique car" and save taxes.
The idea is to add the IMPCO DUAL FUEL CONVERSION KIT CHEVY GMC 87-95 7.4L 454 V8 PROPANE LPG - this was discussed in the forums quite often. However, I can't find anybody who really installed it and has experience.
Now reading your comment on the decline of Autogas it sounds like you don't suggest it. Is there more behind this, on top of the decline itself? I'm confident I will find Autogas during my travels thru Europe in the coming decade(s). If not, I still could drive it with regular fuel

Regards, Mario

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by AirStreamMar

Hi Martin,
I'm just getting my 290 with the 454 engine here and will pick it up with the mechanics on Wednesday from the port.
Actually it's running well (hopefully), it was driving 300 miles before shipment to Europe and also no issues when it was loaded and unloaded from the RoRo ferry.
Next step - beside the modifications to European regulations - will be the addition of the LPG system. It will not be a conversion as I have to keep the regular fuel to get it registered as an "antique car" and save taxes.
The idea is to add the IMPCO DUAL FUEL CONVERSION KIT CHEVY GMC 87-95 7.4L 454 V8 PROPANE LPG - this was discussed in the forums quite often. However, I can't find anybody who really installed it and has experience.
Now reading your comment on the decline of Autogas it sounds like you don't suggest it. Is there more behind this, on top of the decline itself? I'm confident I will find Autogas during my travels thru Europe in the coming decade(s). If not, I still could drive it with regular fuel

Regards, Mario

Hi Mario

The Impco conversion is often used and was the version I was going to have installed. In the UK there are a few specialist garages that offer the conversion. You do still keep the capability to use 'gasoline', actually you need it to start the engine, then switch to LPG. The issue is, on our rigs, you have to find somewhere to install the very large LPG cylinder and the most common location is in place of the gas tank. Then you install a new/much smaller gas tank for starting - it is almost a one way conversion.

What has made me change that decision, is the fact that 3 years ago I had 3 gas stations within a 10mile radius of my home, all have stopped supplying Autogas. It is now 20miles to the nearest Autogas station. If this is repeated across UK/EU you will need a substantial range on the gas tank to get you to the next Autogas station. Even the app that tracks the location of the Autogas stations is not now current.

I believe Nick (Boom Sounds) knows some other 250 owners that have had the Impco installed in EU, maybe he will comment.

[AirStreamMar]

Hi Martin,
Thank you for the feedback. Maybe the decline is more drastic in the UK than in Germany. I see 6400 stations in 2012 and now we still have 6200. I have eight of them in a radius of 5 kilometers. So for the next ten years I think I will be OK. Then converting anyway to electric but saving a lot of €€€ in the meantime.
About the tank, each 2x0/3xx are different. My tank had to be removed before shipment as nobody in the area was able or willing to empty the tank. It was on the drivers side, just behind the front wheel. Behind that is the battery compartment. As I plan to switch to Lithium batteries and there is no dinette behind the drivers seat (just empty area) I plan to relocate the batteries into a new build dinette. So they will be inside the living room, emptying more space for the tank. I see maximum available tanks are 200 liters what will give me comfortable range.
With Nick I'm in contact, he gave me some suggestions on conversions.
Regards, Mario

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by AirStreamMar

Hi Martin,
Thank you for the feedback. Maybe the decline is more drastic in the UK than in Germany. I see 6400 stations in 2012 and now we still have 6200. I have eight of them in a radius of 5 kilometers. So for the next ten years I think I will be OK. Then converting anyway to electric but saving a lot of €€€ in the meantime.
About the tank, each 2x0/3xx are different. My tank had to be removed before shipment as nobody in the area was able or willing to empty the tank. It was on the drivers side, just behind the front wheel. Behind that is the battery compartment. As I plan to switch to Lithium batteries and there is no dinette behind the drivers seat (just empty area) I plan to relocate the batteries into a new build dinette. So they will be inside the living room, emptying more space for the tank. I see maximum available tanks are 200 liters what will give me comfortable range.
With Nick I'm in contact, he gave me some suggestions on conversions.
Regards, Mario

Sounds like a good plan Mario

In the UK the energy providers are 'chasing' the Government subsidies and if there is benefit in removing Autogas to enable EV charging stations they will. The issue here is Autogas was always installed away from the gasoline/diesel pumps, but that is prime real-estate for new EV charging bays (especially as the LPG tanks are above ground and easily removed). These EV bays are run as separate 'franchises' in the normal service station so the Government subsidizes the cost to the franchise (for each install) and so the franchise can pay the service station which already had the required industrial electrical supply. There are significant financial reasons for removing Autogas - especially as there is a large decline in LPG vehicles in UK.

[martin300662]

Hmmm....

The saying goes "its never done" but Bella's version should be "its never easy".

So..... When we had Bella rebuilt I went with a then 'state of the art' inverter charger from Magnum, but Lithium battery technology hadn't reached what I considered a platform so we fitted normal lead acid batteries. The first set of batteries got fried during storage/shipping to UK (even the coach battery was flat when we picked her up from the port). No big deal, lithium prices were still high, installed new house batteries, every OK.

That was 4 years ago, so I wasn't surprised that this year the house batteries are not holding charge so well. Lithium prices are more reasonable, maybe time to change?

No worries, I think, but before I buy the batteries I contact Magnum about changing the charging profile.

Ermm.....changes are possible but only if you have a current generation controller (which wasn't available when Bella was rebuilt). OK so I need a new controller, oh but the new controller requires a different comms cable and the orginal controller is on the opposite side of the coach so all the interior panels would have to come off and fit a new cable. Could I buy (about $300) one of the new controllers and temporarily plug it in to change the profile? Yes but the new profile will only run when that controller is installed.

So to change batteries I am now faced with either fitting a new controller and doing extensive removals to re-wire, or replace the inverter charger like a Victron Multiplus. I like the Victron kit and use their MPPT and SmartShunt so changing inverters is an upgrade as well as giving me the functionality (and I have the other Victron stuff running Venus OS on a Raspberry Pi).

Guess what? The 120v Victron Multiplus is only a special order in the UK, and is 2" wider and 3" longer than the Magnum, and the 'damn thing' (its amazing how quickly something positive becomes negative) won't fit. I could buy it and hope I could fiddle a solution but would have to layout the $1500 (not refundable) and hope.

So what's my options? Well the 240v version is available as a Compact and fits, so that's great....apart from everything (fridge, AC, etc) is 110v.

It appears the simply upgrade of the batteries would trigger either dismantling half the interior (to fit a new Magnum controller) or replacing the entire electrical system and converting to 240v....who knew?

If the situation isn't complicated enough Denise reminded me we are supposed to be shipping Bella back to US once travel restrictions lift, and once Peanut heads for UK.....

So I guess I better order some new lead acid house batteries!!!!!!

[bkahler]

I would think there are other ways to route a cable from one side of the coach to the other. Routing through the cabinets and beds or coming up from underneath could be viable options.

While on shore power do you keep your coach plugged in so the batteries can charge?

[martin300662]

At the moment the cable goes up and over from the wardrobe on the passenger side down to the inverter on the drivers side (on the rear wheel well) so maybe could be pulled, just I have no idea if it is attached somewhere.

But yes, the Magnum sits with the inverter function off, but the battery charge functional on. This means it goes through a normal bulk/absorption/float cycle but then goes into a battery saver mode, where it monitors battery voltage and if that drops below 12.7v then comes out of saver mode and re-runs the charge cycle. When the batteries are new they pretty much stay in battery saver mode (when the isolators are switched off). However during the spring-fall, I leave the isolators on so that the Fantastic Fans can run and keep the air circulating (if the thermostats trigger) so in reality the batteries are cycling 3 out of 4 seasons. As the batteries age you can see on the remote; it frequently dropping out of saver mode, even if isolated. This charges them back up, they just don't hold it.

[bkahler]

Leave the old cable in place and run a new one anyway you can. I call that abandoning in place

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Leave the old cable in place and run a new one anyway you can. I call that abandoning in place

The really frustrating thing is both controls use a RJ45 twisted pair cable, but Magnum say the one used for the ME-RC is different from the one used on the MM-RC that I have.

I'm seriously considering just buying an ME-RC and giving it a go with the current cable!

The controller is listed at $280, but available on-line at $160-170, $20 to ship but $50 duty currently. Almost worth the risk as it is far cheaper than the alternatives.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

The really frustrating thing is both controls use a RJ45 twisted pair cable, but Magnum say the one used for the ME-RC is different from the one used on the MM-RC that I have.

I'm seriously considering just buying an ME-RC and giving it a go with the current cable!

The controller is listed at $280, but available on-line at $160-170, $20 to ship but $50 duty currently. Almost worth the risk as it is far cheaper than the alternatives.

Does that mean the cable type is different or just the pin configuration?

If it's just pin configuration then you have a couple of options. Replace the ends making sure to stick the wires in the correct points on the plug or make an adapter cable that does the swapping for you.

[martin300662]

Unfortunately Magnum don't share the info on the pin configuration.

So I found a seller willing/able to ship to UK and a new ME-RC controller/cable is on the way to UK (they are reporting 3 week delivery).

When it arrives I can check the old and new cable side by side. Fingers crossed they are the same but if not I should be able to cut and re-join, heck I may even splash out on a RJ45 crimping tool and remake the terminal!

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

Unfortunately Magnum don't share the info on the pin configuration.

So I found a seller willing/able to ship to UK and a new ME-RC controller/cable is on the way to UK (they are reporting 3 week delivery).

When it arrives I can check the old and new cable side by side. Fingers crossed they are the same but if not I should be able to cut and re-join, heck I may even splash out on a RJ45 crimping tool and remake the terminal!

I'd loan you my crimping tool but my guess is it wouldn't get there until Christmas

Sounds like you have a plan.

[martin300662]

Some positive news....

The tech support guys at Magnum have confirmed the cable should be the same and I should be able to simply plug in the new controller. Just need that new controller to arrive now; it has cleared customs/Global Shipping Programme and is 'out for delivery' just no idea when.