Policy regarding post deletion

[hampstead38]

Earlier today I posted on a thread. My posts (and others) were subsequently deleted. In the course of my over 700 posts, there have been a very small number of occasions where the moderators have deleted or modified a post. When this has occurred, I have always received a PM explaining why a particular post was deleted or altered. Today, I did not.

Lest I seem ingracious, I have appreciated the moderators allowing the vast majority of my posts to be left standing... and the courtesy of an explanation when my words were changed or deleted. Since this is an issue which may be of some interest to the community, I will ask this in the public forum. Do the forum moderators have a policy of explaining why posts are deleted? If so, I will await a response via PM. If not, I will very respectfully suggest the moderators adopt such a policy.

Providing an explanation to the poster creates two opportunities for education and enlightenment. One, the poster can learn how what he or she said ran contrary to the community's rules. Two, the moderator must explain the rationale behind his or her decision. In my experience, there are things a writer can learn from the editor; just as an editor can learn from the writer.

[CanoeStream]

Sorry ... and yes, explanations should be forthcoming. Let us look into this and get back to you in private.

Regards,
Bob

[Moses]

Nice to see this thread as I too had a couple posts deleted without explanation. I had emailed the moderators asking for an explanation but never received a response. These things combined impressed on me that this community may not be as welcoming as first thought. I hope I am wrong, and I hope this post will still be here in the morning.

[Maryw164]

Great question! One we all have probably been wondering about. On one occasion I had a post deleted, but as it was quickly explained that it was deleted as a result of my post being a quote and response to another members post. Since they violated forum rules, their post & my response was deleted. Makes sense, because my response without their post would seem out of place.

I think a big problem is that a lot of members haven't ever really read the "rules" and sometimes post comments that can be viewed by others as offensive, or are just totally off topic; though probably it is usually unintentional. We all might benefit from a refresher course of the rules every once and a while.

A little consideration can go a long way .

Mary

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, I lost a few posts too; No, the moderators didn't delete or remove them, They have computer problems too. Mine, and several other's, lost there posts at the same time. My first thought was "What did I say or do wrong?" Then it was more like the dog ate my home work.

[Maryw164]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, I lost a few posts too; No, the moderators didn't delete or remove them, They have computer problems too. Mine, and several other's, lost there posts at the same time. My first thought was "What did I say or do wrong?" Then it was more like the dog ate my home work.

Too many folks jump to conclusions & think that it's some kind of conspiracy, when sometimes it can be just a computer glitch that deletes the posts. I think the mod's here are very flexible and let members get away with a lot more than they would on other sites. We are very lucky y'all (the mod's)have such patience and a good sense of humor. Keep up the great work!

Regards,
Mary

[Boondocker]

Sometimes I hit the preview button instead of the submit button I hate when I do that.

[hampstead38]

Here's what I know.

According to "the moderators," they generally try to let folks know why a post has been deleted. In point of fact, this has been my experience. My posts were deleted... not eaten by the electronic dog. That I was not notified seems to be an oversight. Apologies were conveyed, a gesture that was appreciated but certainly not expected. The moderators have assured me that they will provide an explanation when they sort things out. The forum administrator has also asked if I would have any objection to having this thread deleted. I do not, though I did suggest that it might be helpful for the moderators to explain the thought process and the policies they have. I think the way I phrased it was that "transparent" is better than "invisible" when it comes to forum moderation.

[CanoeStream]

hampstead38's last post sums up anything I can say. Moderators do need to communicate politely when a post has been deleted. Post deletions are fairly uncommon and only done for cause. Moderators strive to exercise such edits with as light a hand as possible. And then based on a defined and consistent framework as set out in our Community Rules (link at the bottom of every forums page).

I continue to communicate with Moses (post #3 in this thread). There were no deletions there that I can find. The remaining possibility is a fairly rare technical gremlin where we lose data for some interval in time. About 8 hours of posts were totally lost on a Sunday about a month back. Total loss like this happens ... I hardly can remember the last time it occurred!

Thank you to the best Airstreamers in the world!

Bob

[Distantdrummer]

Originally Posted by hampstead38

Here's what I know.

The forum administrator has also asked if I would have any objection to having this thread deleted. I do not, though I did suggest that it might be helpful for the moderators to explain the thought process and the policies they have.

emphasis added


WHY?
I think that highlighted sentence pretty well explains it all.

Very Washintonian in my view. Hell I remember when whitewashing was just something for Aunt Polly's fence.
So glad I screen shot it first.

[Distantdrummer]

On further thought, I just realized that I don't have a dog in this fight.
So let me do the new "All American thing" and just look the other way.
See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Do No Evil, And Post No Evil....that ought to make me a first class member in good standing and high regard.
So please overlook and forgive any and everything I have ever said or done previously and that I may say in the future.

Not only was I not there, but if it is proven that I was, I was without doubt asleep.

[Janet H]

Originally Posted by Distantdrummer

On further thought, I just realized that I don't have a dog in this fight.
So let me do the new "All American thing" and just look the other way.
See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Do No Evil, And Post No Evil....that ought to make me a first class member in good standing and high regard.
So please overlook and forgive any and everything I have ever said or done previously and that I may say in the future.

Not only was I not there, but if it is proven that I was, I was without doubt asleep.

OK - fair enough. The plain truth is that mods sometimes mess up. But when that happens we do our best to evaluate why and implement processes to avoid futures errors. Mods are regular members who volunteer their time and sometimes, life gets in the way. Phones ring, jobs, kids, all there are all kinds of interruptions. Sometimes we just goof.

My current excuses for snafus are that my keyboard is unbalanced and I have some weird corrosion starting around my usb port

[hampstead38]

For the record, I don't think I was being asked to participate in "whitewashing." I suspect there is a concern that any thread asking a question about a moderation policy can quickly turn into a "torches and pitchforks" session.

I can stand on a sidewalk and--within well established Constitutional parameters--speak my mind. An Internet forum is like a hotel lobby, restaurant, or other privately-owned public space. The owner of the property retains the right to make rules and to ask people to leave if they don't abide by them. The forum moderators or administrator don't have to let a post stand any more than the editor of the local paper has to print any given letter to the editor. In the public square, we are citizens. On private property--event the digital kind--we are guests.

I try to be a good guest here... and if I ever come to the point where I don't feel welcome, or if I think the moderation is heavy-handed or unfair, I just won't participate. So it goes.

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by hampstead38

I can stand on a sidewalk and--within well established Constitutional parameters--speak my mind. An Internet forum is like a hotel lobby, restaurant, or other privately-owned public space. The owner of the property retains the right to make rules and to ask people to leave if they don't abide by them. The forum moderators or administrator don't have to let a post stand any more than the editor of the local paper has to print any given letter to the editor. In the public square, we are citizens. On private property--event the digital kind--we are guests.

Well said! I wish more "netizens" in the U.S. really understood what the First Amendment actually guarantees. Freedom of speech is probably one of the most misinterpreted tenants in the Bill of Rights.

<Moderator Hat ON>

None of the staff here speaks to represent the entire staff; but from time to time I stick my neck out a little. I can tell you that the staff here (all volunteers, BTW) spend an extraordinary amount of time working to keep this an amicable and pleasant place. Much of what we do is done by our opinion of how a post or thread is going, and what the intent of the poster is. We see many angry, insulting, and/or inflammatory things posted here, and then other folks feel obligated to post follow-ups. When we find something like that, or it's reported, an individual moderator will make all the questionable post(s) invisible, and report them (and the thread) in the back room for discussion and consensus. Our concerns is about how to clean up the messes to offend the least number of folks, and yet if the thread has value to the general membership, leave it open.

The staff here are no different than you. We come from all walks of life. We were all members here first, and later asked to join the back room. We all think highly enough of one another and the site that we spend our free time trying to keep the site the best place in the world to come for Airstream information.

We mediate personal squabbles. We keep vendors in-line. We kill spam and ban spammers. We drew up our Community Rules so that everyone has the opportunity to understand what appropriate behavior is. Blatant violations are dealt with quickly and without too much discussion by the staff. Posts that skirt on the edge sometimes get put in queue until we have an opportunity for several of us to discuss them. Because we're volunteers, sometimes that happens quickly; sometimes it takes several hours to get enough of us online to look at it before a decision is made. The time line for reviewing things isn't (and, because we're all volunteers who are on when we have time, can't be) consistent.

That may be the part that is difficult to understand as sometimes we come to consensus quickly that the action taken by a moderator was correct, and we just move on. Other times, the discussion can last some time if there is dissent. We eventually come to consensus, though. That inconsistency of timeliness I'm sure causes confusion, but is necessary for us to provide the best service we can to you.

The staff shares as wide a range of opinions about issues as do the general membership, and we have some lively discussions about how to handle issues as they arise. That range of opinions is what allows us to allow our members as much latitude to post their thoughts as we can. As a group, it's much more difficult to offend us or for us to be 'heavy handed' as it would be if there were but one or two of us doing the moderation; and almost everything that's done here is done in consultation with other moderation staff members, after the initial action is taken by a moderator.

And yes, sometimes things fall through the cracks. We don't want that to happen, and we try not to let it happen, but sometimes it does. There is no grand conspiracy here to keep anyone quiet. There is no agenda other than to facilitate a place where you, as members, can come in confidence and safety, meet your friends, and discuss all things Airstream.

If you have a concern about an issue, PM one of the staff. We do our level best to investigate and determine what we can do to help address whatever your concern is. I don't think you can find anyone who can say "I PM'd so and so about such and such, and they told me to go pound sand", unless the PM asks about action taken against another member's account. We don't go there nor, I suspect, would YOU want us to discuss YOUR account with anyone else. There's no reason to be angry about any action the staff here takes. This is, after all, a site where we all come for recreation and information. If you're the type who gets angry at referees at ballgames and has to scream obscenities at every call... perhaps you'd be better off taking up knitting. Spirited discussion is always welcome. Anger, angst, and bitterness should be expressed somewhere other than here. There are going to be misunderstandings, and we do our best to sort those out professionally and as quickly as possible.

We're not perfect as a site, but we as staff strive to provide you the best service possible within the time each of has to donate to you, our terms of service, and our community rules. That we have several thousand active, posting members at any given moment, and nearly forty thousand registered members tells us that for the majority of our users, we're doing something right.

Thanks for taking the time to be here with us!

<Moderator Hat OFF>

Roger