1961 Trade Wind Adventure

[Slats]

Whether to rebuild an old tank or get a new one is analogous to a vexing problem of my late adolescence - whether to rebuild the transmission in my 1958 Chevy or get a new one. I feared a rebuilt transmission would do little more than postpone the pain, but went ahead with it anyway, proving myself a prophet in the process. So my adolescent self would advise you to get a new tank and hardware (plasticware?) that will accommodate your commode. My current self, having never strayed for from that other self, would yet say the same.

[Oceana24]

Originally Posted by Slats

Whether to rebuild an old tank or get a new one is analogous to a vexing problem of my late adolescence - whether to rebuild the transmission in my 1958 Chevy or get a new one. I feared a rebuilt transmission would do little more than postpone the pain, but went ahead with it anyway, proving myself a prophet in the process. So my adolescent self would advise you to get a new tank and hardware (plasticware?) that will accommodate your commode. My current self, having never strayed for from that other self, would yet say the same.

I needed this bit of humor and wisdom this morning. We have pushed the tank aside a for now after yesterday's discovery.

We knew we needed to remove the back end of the bathroom for cross member and subfloor replacement last week but hoped that would be the extent of it.

Last night I found a second floor 'sky light'. Goshawks00 gave me advice when we first bought the trailer to check the floor with a pocket knife and if it goes through then replace. We checked most areas and overall it looked good. Well, as I deep cleaned last night I tapped an with a screw driver an interesting corner under the bed behind the shower and that whole thing went straight through.

We already deconstructed the bed with the water tank since it had water damage and to to remove the tank. Unfortunately todayor tomorrow I believe we will be taking out likely the rest of the bathroom and I assume part of the bed (gently - fingers crossed).

My fear of having to take any of the skins off or having to do any bucking (we will be doing a bit of bucking for the back and likely front when we reattach the pan) will be realized this week.

I couldn't tell if in my dad's internal dialog whether he was cussing with me or at me last night. I suspect a mix of the two. [emoji6]

My 7 months older with a lot more Airstream basic knowledge version of me is shaking her head at her naive self from 2020. Somehow at the same time I love the trailer even more since I feel I know almost all of its dark secrets now.

Hope you all have a lovely week!

[PA BAMBI II]

Originally Posted by Oceana24

We knew we needed to remove the back end of the bathroom for cross member and subfloor replacement last week but hoped that would be the extent of it.

Last night I found a second floor 'sky light'. Goshawks00 gave me advice when we first bought the trailer to check the floor with a pocket knife and if it goes through then replace. We checked most areas and overall it looked good. Well, as I deep cleaned last night I tapped an with a screw driver an interesting corner under the bed behind the shower and that whole thing went straight through.

We already deconstructed the bed with the water tank since it had water damage and to to remove the tank. Unfortunately todayor tomorrow I believe we will be taking out likely the rest of the bathroom and I assume part of the bed (gently - fingers crossed).

My fear of having to take any of the skins off or having to do any bucking (we will be doing a bit of bucking for the back and likely front when we reattach the pan) will be realized this week.

My 7 months older with a lot more Airstream basic knowledge version of me is shaking her head at her naive self from 2020. Somehow at the same time I love the trailer even more since I feel I know almost all of its dark secrets now.

As I have told you, the deeper you dig, the bigger the hole will get! One thing leads to another to another. I, like you, had thought I would be able to salvage more of my '61 TW project and that I would be tearing less of it down than I had with my '64 Bambi project. But as you get into it...you learn more and more of its "dark secrets," as you say.


I knew the rear floor of the '61 was in bad shape. The part under the tub literally disintegrated as I took it out. It was pretty much large-sized sawdust. The front is better. But there was rot under the front sofa supports. There are a lot of leak points in the front.



My idea was to gut the furniture (save it), repair subfloor and leaks, remove lower skins, replace wiring, build it back up. Well...I found more frame rot that needs repaired, and once you remove the lower skins, you can't unsee the mouse nests, wasp nests, and muck...so you can never live with yourself if you don't take down the end caps and the massive main ceiling skin (this is the point I am up to...)


The plus side is that once you've deconstructed it, and rebuilt it yourself, you know exactly how everything goes together and can say proudly that you've had your hand on every inch of the trailer. I know my '64 quite intimately...the '61 and I are becoming very close as well.


And don't discount the use of Olympic rivets as a substitute for true buck rivets. I had repairs and double skin modifications on my '64 that were almost assuredly done before it ever left Jackson Centre the first time, and some were done with Olympics.

[dbj216]

Good Morning from snowy Colorado. I've spent 5 hours rearranging the snow around our place and I'm rather tired and sore this morning. But the moisture is most welcomed out here.

Ah, the discovery phase. We have all gone through it with old trailers. Discovering what is needed to make the trailer strong and sound again can be disappointing. Airstream trailers are built a bit like airplanes. The frame, the subfloor, and the body are all dependent on each other for structural strength. It is called a "semi monocoque" structure. The frame wobbles around when towed by itself. The body is like a paper bag by itself. The subfloor is like the cream in an Oreo cookie, it connects the two together.

When my Overlander lost connection to the body at the rear, you could stand on the rear bumper and deflect the frame rails, see photo. There is supposed to be a bolt through the frame rail, the rear body mounting plate, and the C channel holding it down. it all rusted away.

When the outriggers rusted loose from the frame, the subfloor dropped downward along the sides as the weight of the body bent it down.

All I'm saying is assess your trailers structure and make the necessary repairs to the frame and subfloor now that you have it apart. Build it back strong again. It is likely your Trade Wind value will grow by more than the materials cost, but not likely the cost of labor. Well, you are working for the "fun" of it.

I'm sure folks can do it.

David

[PA BAMBI II]

Getting that lower brass shower drain trap removed required, for me, a drain removal tool and two pieces of pipe; one for turning leverage and one to jam the trap from spinning underneath the trailer.


It was TIGHT!

[TouringDan]

Ann

I know you are disappointed to find additional wood rot but that is normal and that is just what happens when you start messing around with parts that just aren’t exposed until you remove some interior parts or the the belly pan and insulation. That is project creep. These are the new problems that you have found and you have to fix them cuz now you know about them. You fix them cuz it is the right thing to do and cuz you now love your Airstream and you want it to live forever! And you find yourself wanting to maybe even do a better job than Airstream did because your Airstream deserves the best and you don’t want it to have floor rot ever again. So you seal that new plywood before you install it and caulk that trunk cap and shell crevice where you think the water was coming in. Enough said.

Dan

[dbj216]

Subfloor rot is common in most vintage Airstreams. All of the ones I've worked on have it and I fixed it to maintain strength. Monitoring for water leaks is an important part of Airstream maintenance, whether it is from rainwater, or plumbing. I have found tail light fixture leaks, window frame leaks and roof vent pipe leaks as well as the infamous rear body to frame leaks that Dan so expertly fixed.

My Trade Wind floor rot I think due to a leaky toilet flange.

David

[Slats]

Here's the floor I took out of Hal, our Tradewind. It illustrates where the leaks occur.

[KKuyk]

Originally Posted by Oceana24

We had some great weather this past weekend and were able to get some work done! I do recognize there are pieces of asbestos tiles in these photos that are broken. We are aware of the risks and plan to remove them this week. I purchased two screen frame kits from Home Depot based on a suggestion from a friend to replace the missing screens/frames on the front and back large emergency windows.

Slats - In regards to the Tow Vehicle we are planning to drive it with a Dodge Durango. We leased the V6 with the Tow package for this year but we will primarily use that for camping in our pop-up this year. Next year we will likely turn it in for the V8 with the tow package and possibly purchase that one.

Dan and David – I agree on the 50 amp service. I like to keep it really simple and later down the line I also see stronger batteries.

Ben – Thank you for the on-going moral support, especially as we were both removing our fridges this week. I agree on the recent post commending you on your stellar fathering skills.

We pulled out the Gaucho cushions to prep them for reupholstering them and update the foam. We originally planned to wash and keep the fabric since we thought it was original but we found remnants under them of what looks like the actual original fabric. If anyone has their original fabric from 1961 and it matches the piece under the pink/yellow/blue fabric please let us know since we are curious what it looked like. It makes more sense now that the fabric may not have been original since it reminds me more of one of my favorite shows growing up ‘The Golden Girls’ versus ‘Bewitched’. It could be though that during assembly they started with one fabric and switched; however, we found remnants in two different places. The foam was deteriorating into a powder in some areas. I found a site with cheap foam that someone posted on the Facebook Airstream Restoration site and I have a 6 inch gently used queen memory foam mattress could leverage with some hand cutting. I refuse to pay 1000 -2000 for cushions/foam especially since I know how to sew. I measured the original gaucho and the specifications are similar to a California King at its widest point of 84 inches but the first cushion quickly falls to 80 in length similar to a standard king/queen. We are debating whether we are going to create separate cushions or create more of a daybed. In the long term we might change the configuration based on our needs. We removed the matching fabric bumpers along side the twin beds because there was a musty smell coming from them and they were wet. We had a huge snow storm recently and we believe there is a leak coming from the vents. We resealed the exterior with Trempro and updated the window gaskets prior to the winter; however, I did not tackle the rusted vents since I planned to replace them. I already purchased gaskets and new aluminum vent caps. We noticed that the Hehr square roove vents also seem to not be closing as well as we thought so they might also be a source of the leak. We are going to try to fix them in the upcoming weeks or determine whether to replace with new fans.

We removed the original fridge, a Dometic M50a. I had every intention to get it fixed and put it back in. I spoke to National RV Refrigeration about switching it from propane to an AC/DC compressor. The cost would have been about 1200 give or take and taken a year since there are a few fridges ahead of mine. As my Uncle and Dad were taking it out we decided it was best for us to replace it. We did keep the face and door to potentially turn into a cabinet door OR donate to someone else. We were able to donate the klixon valve, dial, and shelves to another family with a 1961 Trade Wind. I will be sending them to them this week. We pulled the stove top but kept the oven for now. I kept the stove grates and knobs (three burner stove) that I will post on Facebook for free in case anyone needs backups for their original stove (this is a three burner from an Ohio built trailer). We do not plan to use propane so we are debating on keeping the oven in as a shelf area to hold our microwave. If we remove it then all coral will be gone from the kitchen so it will affect future design. There is a small 3.2 cu (a bit small) Frigidaire retro style AC only fridge that matches the coral stove. I still would like an older looking fridge and since they are in style so there are many to choose from but none of them I have seen are made for RVs. I am still in contact with an individual that works for Norcold and may try to purchase a steeply discounted 39-42 inch fridge that I could try to match to the original door and use some creativity to make it work. The two door taller Norcold compressor fridges are also calling my name so I try to use all of those years of art classes to make one look more retro too.

I am sure many others have experienced this as well but I feel guilt with any item I remove from the camper. I am going to minimize it as much as possible. I believe most of the original appliances and plumbing did not work which is why the owner was selling it with little or no information. I suspect the water heater may need to be replaced too but hoping that is not the case (fingers crossed).

We removed the original water tank and pump. At first I wondered if we should try to keep them for now even though we are planning to drop the belly pan this year and do not want to have to do it again in the future. As my dad cut it out we found that that it was damaged and would have leaked. That thankfully removed any guilt we had on updating the plumbing. There was water damage on that bunk which we needed to remove a section of to remove the tank so we are looking at lowering it a couple inches and placing the bunkbed on that side when we rebuild it. My dad was a plumber from age 15 in the old country to 40 years old (he is in his early 70s now). He has deep experience with copper; however, he has not worked with PEX. We purchased our fresh water tank from Jazz Sales based on a tip from a friend (thank you Slats!). The other tanks we looked at had reviews that the connectors were 3/8s vs. the standard ½ inch. We removed the furnace as well. We now have a gaping hole in our AS. We are not sure if we want to polish the trailer yet so we are in need of a piece of galvanized 2024 alclad aluminum to close it (~16 in. by 16 in.). Thank you Touring Dan for your great advice in regards to AC units and expanding our camping spots to think outside of State Parks only. We have had a lot of great discussions due to that advice in the family regarding installing a mini split or a window unit.
I finally understand now why people own more than on Airstream. I saw one locally on Facebook Marketplace. There was a 1972 Tradewind in the area for 7,000 with an almost perfect shell. The owner unfortunately had an accident so he could not finish working on it and needed to sell it. I told the owner I am a reluctant buyer since I am already working on my trailer but I could not help but consider visiting it. I was scared I would leave owning two trailers. I am still trying to help my parents understand my love for these trailers. A couple years ago my parents purchased and flipped three pop-up campers. They pulled a couple items they liked from the campers to create one perfect camper for us to use as a family. My parents jokingly told me to buy this Airstream to keep the Zip Dee awning and resell it. We would not have actually done that with this type of camper. I did not even get a chance to visit it because luckily for the owner it was purchased by someone out of state before our meeting the next day. If the person that bought it is reading this then congratulations on the beautiful camper! AND if anyone has a lead on a decent priced 14ish foot awning let me know or even good suggestions on which route to go for an awning. This is also a more in the future project even though my family LOVES awnings. 😉

This week we have another warm day and luckily our electrician is back from wintering Florida. We are hoping he can come out and start reviewing the electrical to determine next steps. We know we need to add some AC and DC wiring. Overall I do want to keep things simple in the trailer with some upgrades. I commend everyone that buys a new Airstream for learning all there is to know. From reading posts on the Facebook Airstream groups I feel like I would be overwhelmed with everything they build into the new campers. I normally do not even keep a TV in ours and only use shore electrical for basics.

I have 6 weeks left now before I return to work and even less time left before my dad starts his golf season (I hate to take a person away from their passion to focus on mine). I hope the snow/rain stops soon so we can drop the pan and fix the frame.

This is likely a really dumb question that I think I know the answer to: Is it possible to weld in new pieces of steel to the back area of the frame without replacing the subfloor above it. I will epoxy the entire floor and have not found soft areas but there is the massive hole in the pan under the bathroom. I know there is a chance our above floor fiberglass tank could have a hole or leak or we could have a broken toilet so the bathroom might be coming apart soon anyway making it easier to replace that one section of floor.



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I know it's been a bit since this post but would you happen to still have the fridge. I, too, have a 61 Tradewind and have been on the hunt for a pink Dometic to use in ours.

[Bubba L]

KKuyk, let me know if you find one. I’m looking for one also. Thanks