Does the "Factory Manufactured Weight" Sticker include LP and Batteries?

[PhxRising]

Good afternoon,


We've got a low mileage, reliable 2004 Cadillac Escalade with mediocre payload of about 1380 pounds. We're very likely going to upgrade the tow-vehicle to a Dodge 2500 CTD in the future. That said, if I can make the payload #s of the Escalade work within the safety zone, we might move on the 25FB earlier... The sticker on the 25FB at the dealer shows 5,767 pounds. Should I assume that trailer-specific sticker includes full LP tanks and battery weight, (is that the accurate weight of the trailer as it sits?)


Assuming that weight includes LP and Batts, if I plan for a moderate amount of "stuff" in the 25FB, I'm thinking the trailer weight will be closer to 6500#s ready for camping. @ 15% of 6500, that puts the tongue weight @ 975 pounds. Adding 105#s for the WDH, that's 1,080 pounds before accounting for the virtue of weight distribution (which I'm guestimating will reduce the affect of the tongue weight impact (on the tow vehicle) by somewhere in the 300 pound range...) So, after WDH's benefit, that suggests I might have about 400#s of payload remaining (staying within 20% safety zones).



Worth trying with the 14 year old Caddy with brand new brakes?



Is that tongue weight calculation of 1,080 pounds for the 25FB reasonable?


Thanks all!


Darren

[Bobbo]

Most manufacturers don't do this, but Airstream lists "Unit Base Weight (w/ LP & Batteries) (lb)".

Your tongue weight calculations look good to me.

[Al and Missy]

I was told by Airstream customer service that the base weight includes the batteries and the propane tanks but not the propane.

Since the recommended range I found for tongue weight was 10-15%, I used 12.5.

We weighed our 30 at the Escapees facility in Florida and were surprised to find we were right at the GVWR. We started trying to put the trailer on a diet and were amazed at how much stuff we had put on board over the last two years. I think you are going to have to be very careful to keep your load at 750# or so. Don't forget that water is 8# per gallon.


I also found that there were 250-350# that I couldn't account for in both of myh trailers. I weighed the trailer empty or accounted for anything I didn't take off. I added to the base weight for any options the original owner added. When I calculated the base weight my numbers were substantiallt higher than the stated base weight.


Al

[SSquared]

Welcome to Airforums!

Just as an example, I have scale numbers for my 2010 Yukon Denali (4x4 short wheelbase) and 2013 25FB Flying Cloud.

Our trailer weight (axles plus tongue) has been as high as 6900 pounds, when we are on a multi-month adventure (with full fresh tank and water heater).

The Yukon door sticker says payload is 1544. We have permanently removed the rear seats, which gives us another 100 pounds of payload. GVWR is 7300.

After weight distribution, I usually see 800-840 pounds of tongue weight being carried by the Yukon. The last actual tongue weight I have measured is 990, but that was before I put in bigger batteries and an inverter/charger.

The weight of the Yukon with driver, passenger, and full gas but nothing else is 5960. With the trailer hooked up, WD set, and the "stuff" we like to have in the car, the Yukon axles register in the range 7120 to 7200. So call it 1200 pounds of tongue weight and stuff.

Sounds like you have about 300 pounds less payload. So you can't take as much "stuff" as we do but you can probably make it work.

What transmission do you have, and do you plan on much mountain driving? We have the six speed, and I always wish for closer gear ratios when I'm heading for the big passes of Colorado.

[PhxRising]

Originally Posted by SSquared

Welcome to Airforums!

What transmission do you have, and do you plan on much mountain driving? We have the six speed, and I always wish for closer gear ratios when I'm heading for the big passes of Colorado.

Thanks for the replies! SSquared, the Escalade has a 6.0L V8 with 7700# towing capability. We'll be pulling out of Phx (typically up north - about a 3000 foot climb to get to the plateau.) Appreciate your feedback as well as the removal of the rear seat tip.

Interesting to think this might work...

[JustHookem]

SSquared, it sounds like you at times are running close to 90% of your Combined Gross weight limit, but being careful to make sure the weight is properly balanced across the hitch and axle.

I'm in a Tundra, doing the same calculations trying to find the right AS for my family, and am curious as to how your rig handles (not so much about the pulling power, but more sway control, braking down grades, ect) do you have white knuckle moments?

[tbashin]

My stand is that if you have to worry about all those numbers and depend on WD Hitch to make it all work, then you need a bigger truck. I like to enjoy my time on the road so less worries is always better. It can be done your way though if you want to get it going before the 3/4 ton truck comes into play. I have an F350 diesel and I use WD and sway control for the added safety factor which increases ease of mind.

[zapper]

Originally Posted by JustHookem

SSquared, it sounds like you at times are running close to 90% of your Combined Gross weight limit, but being careful to make sure the weight is properly balanced across the hitch and axle.

I'm in a Tundra, doing the same calculations trying to find the right AS for my family, and am curious as to how your rig handles (not so much about the pulling power, but more sway control, braking down grades, ect) do you have white knuckle moments?

I too have a Tundra and pull a 30' FC. Others may have different opinions, but I have dragged it from CA, OR, WA ID MT, WY, CO and west through the Rocky's to UT, AZ back to CA with little or no sway. On 6% or greater downgrades, I would have preferred Toyota had done a better job with the front brakes. I kept my speed down and used engine brake and was OK and felt safe. Thought about upgrading front disks to ceramic but have not done yet. Perhaps will do in a month or so. Others have reported the same with similar TV and TT.

[Martee]

Originally Posted by PhxRising

Thanks for the replies! SSquared, the Escalade has a 6.0L V8 with 7700# towing capability. We'll be pulling out of Phx (typically up north - about a 3000 foot climb to get to the plateau.) Appreciate your feedback as well as the removal of the rear seat tip.

Interesting to think this might work...

I am pretty sure it will work, cuz I just saw and talked with an Escalade owner this morning, towing a FC 25FB down the New York Thruway on the Buffalo direction. He was using the Equalizer with 1200 lb bars, and said it tows stable with no sway. His Escalade and Airstream setup looked nice. He was extremely focused on making sure of his "carry along weight" and his tires.

[BillfromWI]

The tongue weight of my 2014 FC25FB twin, ready to travel, on the AS production line scale is 1252# with a ~50# Andersen hitch. I had it weighed while in for service. Also, you must include passenger weight as cargo. You will most likely exceed the cargo rating of the Eacalade.

[SSquared]

Originally Posted by JustHookem

SSquared, it sounds like you at times are running close to 90% of your Combined Gross weight limit, but being careful to make sure the weight is properly balanced across the hitch and axle.

I'm in a Tundra, doing the same calculations trying to find the right AS for my family, and am curious as to how your rig handles (not so much about the pulling power, but more sway control, braking down grades, ect) do you have white knuckle moments?

A few thoughts on my set-up. We started with a Blue Ox Sway Pro hitch with 1000 pound bars. The owner's manual for the Yukon called for adjusting WD to get the front end height the same with WD and when unhitched. The Blue Ox did that when using chain link 7, which was the tightest I could get. But the handling was not satisfactory, and we had one incident of oscillations on an on-ramp.


Our first big trip took us to Ohio and Ontario, so we went to Can-Am in London, ON. They replaced the Blue Ox with an Eaz Lift Elite, with 1400 pound bars and dual friction bars. They set the WD very tight. That works better. Now we run with the front end heavier than unhitched by 200-260 pounds. It turns out our vehicle is quite sensitive to front axle loading. We can feel the difference of 100 pounds--even the passenger can tell if the front end is too light.


So that's what works for us. But I have been reading Airforums for years, and I have seen multiple stories of people who have different experiences, including rigs that behave badly when the front end weight is at 100% of unhitched, and then behave better when the WD adjustment is backed off. You just have to experiment a bit to see what works for you.


The Yukon has pretty good engine braking. But as with going up, I wish I had another gear. On big downhills like the "Ike Gaunlet" (I-70 westbound from the continental divide) third gear is useless for engine braking. I use second gear, and have to also use the brakes a bit to keep the speed in check. First gear would mean a speed of 25-30, which is pretty slow for interstate highways, when other traffic is doing 60 to 70.



One thing I like about engine braking in the Yukon is the full-time all wheel drive. The braking happens at all four wheels and it feels very stable.

[brick1]

I recently purchased an International Serenity 28 and towed with a 2016 Expedition. Payload was my issue, too, at 1319 lbs. So I traded for an F250 Diesel.
Yes you can tow with the Escalade, but you will find it easier to tow with a bigger truck.
brick