Much Ado About ALDE

[jlandreth]

Originally Posted by ajwbarnard

In my experience, I always use propane to get the temperature up and electric to maintain it. And even with gas, it is not the instant blast of hot air of a hot air furnace. Discussed this with the Alde rep at the Hershey RV show who confirmed that the warmup (I think I get 10 degrees an hr) was normal. Would I like it to be faster, sure. But I love the quiet heat that it supplies.

I am glad to get these insights into the Alde heat, it looks like our first trip is going to be the end of December or first of January. Don't need a cold wife and no answers as to what's going on!

[KJRitchie]

If you run only on propane (boondocking scenario) is the 10 deg/hr parameter still valid or is it just for when it’s on electric and gas, so it’s lower on just gas? Is the heating performance as good as the old forced air furnace? Just to get it from 45F to 65F takes two hours I guess you would be running the heat pump or a ceramic heater. A boondocking scenario would require a Mr Heater Buddy heater.

Kelvin

Originally Posted by ajwbarnard

In my experience, I always use propane to get the temperature up and electric to maintain it. And even with gas, it is not the instant blast of hot air of a hot air furnace. Discussed this with the Alde rep at the Hershey RV show who confirmed that the warmup (I think I get 10 degrees an hr) was normal. Would I like it to be faster, sure. But I love the quiet heat that it supplies.

[KJRitchie]

So you have to be careful no to cover the slots between the mattress and wall with a blanket.

Are the radiators easy to clean. I can imagine dust and blanket fuzz getting down in there.

Kelvin

Originally Posted by james.mileur

Side radiators are still there with mouse fur panels to create an air slot along the mattresses. My preference is to level the trailer just so the bathroom door hangs open across the hall, so the bedroom drops a bit cooler than the kitchen & living room, while sleeping. Love that long hall between the beds; like a whole 'nother room. More bulkhead closets also.

I've got a well - tested tweaked - in '17, simple Alde system twin bunk model to pass along for the right price. Could even include delivery and training. All the accessories included to start glamping next weekend.

[james.mileur]

Easy clean; open the outboard lockers and shoot the bottom of the radiator with an air nozzle; then all your blanket fuzz will be back on the blanket [emoji12]

[rmkrum]

Originally Posted by james.mileur

Easy clean; open the outboard lockers and shoot the bottom of the radiator with an air nozzle; then all your blanket fuzz will be back on the blanket [emoji12]

Or, more likely, very evenly distributed all over the horizontal surfaces throughout the AS...(grin)

[kendrick.l.j]

KJ, the Alde is extremely efficient and pretty easy on the LP gas even while boondocking. I turn the system on when towing and the inside is nice and toasty when I arrive even when it’s 30 degrees outside. Do need to wait 2 hours to warm up the trailer. It’s actually more efficient to just leave it on at a fixed temp than going up and down and have to use electric and gas in the morning just to take the chill off. I prefer to sleep at 65 degrees and keep my temperature at 70 during the daytime so I split the difference and keep my temperature at 68. I very rarely boondock but in the two years I’ve had my Classic I have only used 1 (one) tank of gas per year and she’s been used every single day, never winterized, never stored and I have traveled in freezing temperature and she stays warm. Unless there is something wrong with the system there’s really no need to ceramic heaters, IMO.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Unlike a furnace setup where a blocked vent is a really big deal, a radiator system ( = Alde) is much less effected by this or that section being a bit compromised. You have nearly 60' of radiators in the trailer. Fiddling with 5 or even 10 feet of that is not a big deal.

Bob

[lukeysh714]

Getting frustrated with our Alde. 2017 unit: replaced control panel, replaced main boiler circuit board (had to go to factory for that), now when we parked yesterday, noticed glycol draining out of air vent tube under rig. Found that main boiler air vent was bad and allowing glycol to drain. Love the concept and type of heat it provides, but a little frustrated with failures.

[kendrick.l.j]

Hi Matt, sorry yours is giving you some trouble. I recently had a Check Valve fail on mine but called Alde directly and got the replacement sent under warranty (just barely) and swapped it out. Tracking down where the leak was coming from and why took much long than the install on the replacement part.

Next week will be my 2 anniversary with my Classic. Still very happy with the overall performance of the Alde and my AS. I think I have her tweaked perfectly and have learned a lot along the way. Fairly confident in my ability to maintain her and to make minor repairs or upgrades.

[Pete B55]

Coming up on the 2 year anniversary of our 2017 Classic. I took it in to have the Alde fluid replaced per the manual. Apparently Airstream requires a somewhat expensive flushing tool/kit that the dealer had to order and the local dealer did not have it. It took some time for the service guy to get the GM to approve it and then even more time to have it shipped before they could even attempt to do the work. In some ways the Alde is still new.

[turk123]

Having a new 2019 3020 Alde system, I have some questions.

AS tech support told me to run the circulation pump while bleeding the system. Adle says never run the circulation pump while bleeding as it will introduce more air into the system. Hmmmm

Under the service mode, there is an item called "current". I would assume that this is the current draw in amps (it says 0.0 amps). Mine never changes even though I have priority electric or even shut off the propane (blue flame on panel). The fan never runs when just electric is on. Only when propane is on.

Features like heated floor and booster settings where turned off from the factory. Can I turn them on? If so, what should I set "load monitor" to? 20a, 30a, 50a ?

AS still does not have a good handle on this system. Factory customer service could only read from the manual. They could not answer my questions.

I am not getting any heating when set to electric. The fuse is good. Does the alde system actually heat on electric or only to assist the propane?

Too many quiestions and not enough answers.

[kendrick.l.j]

Morning Turk and Happy Thanksgiving,

In the future when you call Jackson Center I suggest you talk to John. I’ve had more than a few conversations with him and he was better than others. Spencer at Alde is also an excellent resource but it sometimes takes a couple of days to hear back from him. Anyway, I’m not at my AS at the moment so I won’t be able to answer a couple of your questions but I think I can help with most.

I do not run the circulation pump when bleeding the system. To make sure the pump doesn’t come on while I’m bleeding I turn the power off just to be safe.
Then bleed, starting with the valve behind the sofa and working my way around in a clockwise pattern. When I get to the towel rack I check the tank and then turn the system back on and let it run for a few minutes and bleed once more. So far this has worked well for me in the past 2 years.

The “current” should be reading something but I don’t remember what. The fan should be running regardless if you are on propane or electric. When hooked into an external power source your propane should only be needed when temperatures are extremely low (below, say, 30) otherwise your sucking up propane needlessly. The system is extremely effective and efficient on electric. How I think of this is that the Alde has 3 power setting, one is the electric which is how it should be used most of the time, then when you need to boost the water temperature up for showers, hit the booster button and it turns on the second electric element and lastly it will use propane when the electric can’t keep up or when booondocking or towing.

The heated floor doesn’t work. Yes, I know the brochure says it will but hasn’t happened on mine or any other Classic owners that I have talked to. It’s not a big deal for me so I just move on to other issues.

Going back to your booster question for a second. When the booster is activated it turns on a second heating element using electric (has nothing to do with propane, if I remember correctly) but the booster turns itself off in 30 minutes. This timer is set up within the Alde and if there is a way to reset the timer, I don’t know it.

I would think your “load” should be set to whatever you’re hooked up to. If you have 50a then that should be your load. I have not needed to bother with this option but I suspect that is because I’ve always had 50amp available.

The last question blew me away. You should be using electric as your primary source and only using propane very, very rarely. Why the heck you’re not is beyond me. So are you saying that for the last 2 weeks you’re on propane only? That’s not right.
As an example, I sorta am using my Classic full time ( it’s complicated and totally off topic) and I did full time for the first 6 months. In that length of time I used one tanks worth of propane. When i took her up to the factory last March and was in it every day for 2 weeks in below freezing temps and had the system on while traveling I only used one quarter of a tank of propane. What I’m trying to say is that your primary source of power should be electric.

I was a critical care/trauma nurse for 35 years, not an engineer so the technical stuff will need to be answered by someone else. Sorry.





Do not run the circulation pump when bleeding.

[BigSxyWhtGuy]

My wife and I full time in our classic. We use propane and electric currently and the propane usage is very low for alde. System seems to be doing well switching back and forth.

I did recently ask the same about alde just running on electrical and Kendrick said the same, when temps are low the system on just electrical doesn’t keep up. Currently temps stay in the 40s at night and 50s during the day.

When we are boondocking, usage of propane speeds up. We run though a bottle in a month maybe two if we are just boondocking all month, the colder the weather the more propane to heat. We found that running a mr heater helps kick up temp very quickly and once temp is warm then alde is able to maintain temp.

Hope this makes sense.

[cbburke]

Keeping in mind that Airstream used both the 3010 and 3020 boilers. Early on the 3010 Alde setup evolved as Alde and Airstream learned what worked in the real world. By the time we got ours it still had the 3010 boiler but they had figured out how to add the Alde Flow to augment domestic hot water. Something that was not supposed to be possible.
As some folks have reported the early versions would not allow independent control over heat sources. Now they are individually selectable.
The directions in the Alde manuals for both the 3010 and 3020 system are the same regarding bleeding the system.

Leave the bleed screws open until ethylene glycol fluid starts coming out of them, and then close them. Start the circulation pump and let it run for a while.

Do this for each of the nine (9) bleed screws. Locations are in the parts manual available on the Airstream website

[james.mileur]

Hi Turk, seems like we learned around post 166, that the "vent with pump running" was growing in practice and advice from JC. Towel rack is a high point, so first place to vent. Anytime there is a bubble to vent with a volume larger than your expansion tank, you may introduce air if the pump is running, but that would be unusual to vent that much, after delivery. Clockwise or counter clockwise flow is determined by the assembly tech making final connections to the boiler circ pump inlet and outlet. My flow runs clockwise, therefore, as long as there is a level in the expansion tank, running the pump while venting, should be fine.

All you '18 and '19 Alde folks going into winter ops, should check the circ pump speed switch on the pump. '17s worked better on 3, than 1.

Yup, to the brochure heated floor, verses real heated floor. $.99 slippers in the shower work better for warm feet. [emoji12]

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by james.mileur

Hi Turk, seems like we learned around post 166, that the "vent with pump running" was growing in practice and advice from JC. Towel rack is a high point, so first place to vent. Anytime there is a bubble to vent with a volume larger than your expansion tank, you may introduce air if the pump is running, but that would be unusual to vent that much, after delivery. Clockwise or counter clockwise flow is determined by the assembly tech making final connections to the boiler circ pump inlet and outlet. My flow runs clockwise, therefore, as long as there is a level in the expansion tank, running the pump while venting, should be fine.

All you '18 and '19 Alde folks going into winter ops, should check the circ pump speed switch on the pump. '17s worked better on 3, than 1.

Yup, to the brochure heated floor, verses real heated floor. $.99 slippers in the shower work better for warm feet. [emoji12]

Hi

My guess is that the "heated floor" actually dumps heat in the vicinity of the waste tanks to keep them happy .... heating the floor is only a secondary task design wise.

Bob

[Bigventure]

The heated floor may not exist in the 30. It could be in the software because it’s offered in the 33 and they use the same software.

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by james.mileur

Hi Turk, seems like we learned around post 166, that the "vent with pump running" was growing in practice and advice from JC. Towel rack is a high point, so first place to vent. Anytime there is a bubble to vent with a volume larger than your expansion tank, you may introduce air if the pump is running, but that would be unusual to vent that much, after delivery. Clockwise or counter clockwise flow is determined by the assembly tech making final connections to the boiler circ pump inlet and outlet. My flow runs clockwise, therefore, as long as there is a level in the expansion tank, running the pump while venting, should be fine.

All you '18 and '19 Alde folks going into winter ops, should check the circ pump speed switch on the pump. '17s worked better on 3, than 1.

Yup, to the brochure heated floor, verses real heated floor. $.99 slippers in the shower work better for warm feet. [emoji12]

I found turning the pump up to 4.5 works better for our 2017.


Best regards and safe travels

[Bigventure]

Just an FYI on hydronic heating systems you want the pump speed low. High speeds are bad for a number of reasons. I have seen 1 grain of sand wear out an elbow.

[turk123]

I talked to Max at Alde this morning. Got a trainee as my support rep. He said, "Hold off until I turn on the test unit". Didn't know how to turn it on.

Later I called back and got Spence. He is training Max. The test unit is used to test circuit boards that come in that are suspect.

I ask about the service readout on Settings, Service.

It reads:

Glycol temp 146
Water temp 121
Fan circulation rpm
Current. 0.0A
Overheat deact

The Fan circulation is the speed of the exhaust fan when propane is on. It does not come on when only electric is running.

Current reads 0. It will always read 0 as it is not a functioning readout.

Spence has very good knowledge of the Alde systems. We talked for quite a while. I will try to cover our conversation here.

I ask about not having enough heat in the rear bedroom. It comes down to outside temperatures. It is 45-50 here at night. I am running on Electric priority. I am hooked up to 50 amp campground service.

Under Settings, Installed accessories - make sure that Load monitor is checked and that Alde Flow is also checked.

The load monitor has several settings: from 18 amp up to 55 amp. I set mine to 50 amp to match the power I have from the campground.

Alde flow is the second tank used to help provide more hot water for longer showers.

What appears to be happening is not caused by air gaps in the glycol. It has to do with the prime sweet spot that Alde is anticipating to best heat the trailer. 145 degree glycol temp (shown in the service menu) is the minimum for best heating. Under electric priority and with mild temps outside, the glycol is only reaching 135 degrees at most. That is not hot enough to get the heat needed to the rear of the trailer.

Spence said the best scenario in this case would be to run only propane that produces 2 1/2 times the output as electric. It will bring up the glycol temps fast and distribute more energy to the rear. He also said I could try turning down the electric KW on the main screen from 2 to 1 forcing more demand on the propane to come on.

I ask if there was a way to test if both electric elements are coming on. He said if you have someone get near the Alde main unit, you can hear the relay click for each element. If you don't hear both clicks, you may have an element out.

During strong demand, the glycol can reach a maximum of 185 degrees!

This scenario is while under electric priority. When you turn on the shower boost it shuts off the circulation pump to all the radiators. You are no longer heating the coach. There is a second pump that pumps glycol to the two water storage tanks. It does not necessarily mean that that the propane is turned on. If there is enough heat in the glycol it will use that and the electricity to heat the tanks. Propane may come on later to keep up. Seems very efficient to save on propane.

Spence also recommended that to create the best airspace in the tank(s) he recommends turning off the Alde system, shut off the water pump, shut off the public water and drain the entire tank of 2 1/2 gal of water. This creates the optimum size water space. You can drain just a little if you like, but draining the entire tank is best. Do not turn on the system until the public water is on and or the water pump is on. You will hear it filling the tanks. Do this every two weeks.

Spence told me that John in customer support at Airstream is the guy to talk to about the Alde system. They both work closely together with shop issues.