Is there an AS lemon law?

[cwf]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

JC has done very good work for us also....on our 63 Safari, not warranty. Having to return to the factory to have warranty repairs done correctly, does nothing to enhance the brand. Improve both QC and the dealer network to match the price point. WWWD? Bob

In a previous life, management and marketing, in attempt to increase profit and "close out" the development process by "shipping" the products, justified their actions as follows:
"Ship the $&@? Thing! You have 2 months until the product hits "the field"...by then all you need is to FIX it!!! Issue an E.C.(engineering change) to be field installed when the $&@? Grenades on first startup. The Field Engineers you have out there are great folks who will save your a$$$$$. Utilize them!"

Hmmm... So, several " issues" there. Management killed off the field people. "Too expensive." "Customers are willing to do a lot of the work for cheaper price. " (the SW industry has leveraged this beyond the pale.)

Now, AM I SEEING ?... that AS is going the same way? Nothing , it appears, differentiates them aside from the choice of exterior material and service provided directly by/at The MOTHERSHIP. Dealer structure has trouble finding "qualified" folks who will work for peasant pay...so that dealers make lots of profit....not so they can improve customer value... Ooooooops I said the wrong thing!!!?????

Meanwhile,
Not being "cynical"...we really need to look deep into our Airstream belly button.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Channing,

SW= soft ware?

BTW
I can't find my Airstream BB...should I get it out where I can see it?


Bob

[cwf]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Channing, SW= soft ware? BTW I can't find my Airstream BB...should I get it out where I can see it? Bob

SW = software, yup.

And, yup, the AS BB, is virtual, sorta.

Apologies for an acronyms phobia...

[Wingeezer]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Brian,

I PM'd Andrew yesterday to check if these were the tires he was recommending. He confirmed and noted that it was a very good price.

I've had such good luck with the LTX's on the Burb it makes sense to consider Michelin for the AS, just can't rationalize new 16 wheels.
GYM's since 1989 on two AS's with nothing but a nail, got no complaints there.

This is also interesting reading....note Maxxis origin.

Bob

Thanks for the link Bob, it doesn't look as though they would work for me, the load rating seems not quite high enough.

As for the Maxxis tires, I did know they were from China, but rightly or wrongly, I don't feel it right to tar everything with the same brush. I am sure there are some pretty poor tires coming from China, but are they all bad?

I was only going from the fact that when I checked this the forum some time back, comments on Maxxis Tires were generally pretty positive.

I guess maybe I will stick will my plan to try to get a set of Maxxis 15" load range E trailer tires when we are in Tucson this winter. Doesn't appear that I can get them locally here in Canada.

Thanks again ............ Brian.

(sorry to sidetrack this thread a little!)

[Andrew T]

Hi Brian
We have the Michelins on dozens of classic 30's and 31's. Unless you have very unusual loading you will be well within the load capacity with your trialer. Rich who posted above would be as heavy as you are.

Andrew T

[Tater]

I have 16" Michelin in my 12 classic 30. I did install tire monitors. I tow at speed limit but only up to 70 mph on interstate.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by cwf

Not being "cynical"...we really need to look deep into our Airstream belly button.

And when you look in there, and also at the many threads about Airstream QC and cost cutting, you will see things have not been good. Located where it is, the company tends to be insular and does not encourage ideas from "outside". Some of the execs realize things have to change and to some degree there have been positive changes.

But they make changes without sufficient testing (and probably can't afford some of the testing necessary) and still look for cost cuts. For ex., they started using rubber seals along a few of the seams, but opted for the cheapest seals they could find. They will probably fail after a couple of years. They changed the courtesy lights as an improvement, but had new problems with these because they didn't think it through. For a while the new air conditioners were leaking inside—a manufacturer's defect possibly, but you have to find that out before you install them. They still have too many dealers who do not do a good job and that hurts sales a lot.

It may well be an average trailer with a premium price. A company can make great profits doing that so long as they sell everything they make and trade on an iconic name. I am sure they have lost a lot of sales because of the criticisms on this Forum, but they are satisfied with the situation.

It works for Thor Industries, the owner of Airstream. They make big profits and their other lines are average or below. Many people expect little reliability from RV's and the industry gives them what they expect. If you read threads about this, you will see many people saying RV's are not great quality; that's the way it has always been; blame the suppliers of the materials and appliances—Airstreams last a long time and be happy you have one.

It is true many older Airstreams last a long time, but maintenance is very high and renovating an old one is very expensive. The basic construction was invented generations ago and works well, though the company has cheapened it too for some models—read up on front and rear end sag for example.

Those of us who never had an RV before may be the most upset. We have seen amazing improvements in autos and trucks over the past generation—many caused by competition from Europe and Asia. Autos and trucks don't leak, for ex. But Airstream only began using rubber seals in a few places recently, and, as I said, used the cheapest seals you would buy on the aftermarket for an old beater you didn't want to spend any more money on. Airstream will tell you trailers are far more complex than cars—perhaps they ought to look under the hood of a new car or truck, or underneath, or at the multitude of computer chips. And even the worst cars last for years and years now with few defects. You don't need a tune up every 6 months or brakes every 20,000 miles—and the brakes actually stop the vehicles in a short amount of space compared to travel trailers.

The American RV industry is still complacent. There is little competition from abroad. We did see a strange looking Mercedes van (much bigger than the ones Airstream uses) with European plates the other day on the road. Maybe we will see more. They do make RV's in Europe, but few make it here. Maybe Asians will compete and teach us something like Toyota, Nissan and others have. That would be a bad time for American manufacturers, but real competition is necessary to improve this industry.

Rant complete. Carry on.

Gene

[Moflash]

Well put Gene.

[robwok]

I don't own a new Airstream, and my newest car was 5 years old. I get my phones off Craigslist when I have to replace. I have been over every inch of my Aistream and toured several new ones. I was shocked at the new ones. When I walked in, I was impressed by the look and feel, but immediately noticed that it was not designed for the long term. It seems that the RV industry is designed for impulse buys. I make over 6 figures, but intentionally dress in jeans and t shirts for a visit to dealerships. They don't know I could afford a trailer, and the sales guys leave me alone. Plus, I can crawl around to look at the bottoms of the trailers. The 2014 models. I don't know about the seals and such, but I noticed the cushions were incredibly soft. That's great for a few weeks. After that, the foam starts to break down. The wood looks like zebra wood, but is actually plastic laminate. You'll never get a good repair on that if it leaks. There was a brand new unit that had a slide out microwave that was already busted - I expect in delivery.

These units are dramatically marked down the longer they sit on the lot. Same as the other boxes. High tech rubber seals are available with research. Seating could be made with 3 layers of foam - soft, medium, and hard to enable it to last. These things are made to look great at the dealership, not last 50 years. It's a shame that Airstream or Thor didn't say "hey, Wally's trailer design will last for 50 years, lets make a trailer with 50 years in mind". I walked through several of the big white boxes too, with all the toy haulers and bump outs. It looks like they imported their designers from the 80's. Only the Airstreams looked modern and luxuious. There was one white box that had the most hideous bathroom I have ever seen. Looked like it was made using plastic aquarium rocks from Walmart.

In the end, I applaud Airstream for the sense of style, layout, and color. I am disappointed that they don't add 15% to their manufacturing materials to make them last longer.

[dkottum]

Say what you want, our new Airstream shows no signs of wear, nothing's falling off, nothing's broke, and the cushions, cabinetry, and aluminum shell are like new after two years ownership, 14 months on the road with us living in it.

[Gene]

Doug, you're lucky. It appears some workers do a good job and others do not. During the pre-recession years, they were turning out as many as 2,400 trailers per year and apparently had some really bad employees who did a bad job and they worked not only on Fridays, but every day—some of us got those trailers, some didn't.

Our cushion covers got dirty quickly and were very difficult to clean; we had them redone by a local seamstress. The foam has stood up fairly well, but there are permanent depressions where we sit. Lots of other problems, but it has settled down by now. I continue to fix things and change things that needed improvement.

Gene

[ROBERT CROSS]

I just get to the point where our new AS purchase is a distant memory and you rascals bring it all back....

Well I ain't 'gonna take the bait...

I'll just repeat one of my favorite obtuse AS quotes....


"Time will bring to light whatever is hidden; it will cover up and conceal what is now shining in splendor."
Horace

Bob

[dkottum]

Gene, we've been lucky twice; we also had a 2007 Safari SE 20 that was a good one as well. We also do upgrades to the new one, took out the dinette stuff last week and put in swivel recliners in our 25'. Wish it was an option, we spend too much time in it for dinette seating.

I suppose it will all disintegrate soon, as advised, but we sure are enjoying it until then.

[ceallaigh]

We have had a new 2014 22FB Sport airstream since August, Two trips total of 6 hours/ 30 plus days back at dealer for first issue. Our sewer hose was not located correctly and was under the airstream and fell off on our first trip. Fortunately when they fixed this, they moved the sewer hose container to the edge,so we no longer have to get under the airstream. The roll up cabinets both jammed on our first trip. To Airstream's credit they did replace the cabinets and no problem on our second trip-but fairly smooth driving. Second trip out, all good. We did not use the showers because we were conserving tank so used public showers, yet when we got back I found the shower handle on the floor and it will not go on again and stay put. It appears to be stripped. In the time we have had it the shower was used twice on the first trip. So although these are not major issues, the reason we bought a brand new airstream was so we would not have things falling off. I never thought a new unit would have issues like this right from the start. The sewer hose container could have been dangerous if it had fallen off during the trip, but fortunately it held til we got to the campground. Is this normal for brand new airstream? I get that the Sport is probably lower end, but still it was not cheap and it should hold up.

[TG Twinkie]

You are just getting started. Hopefully these will be your only issues. But I have my doubts.
Keep a close eye on things. Don't be afraid to ask questions about things you don't understand.
Get as many "shake down" trips in as you possibly can. Before the warranty expires.
Good Luck!

[cwf]

Originally Posted by TG Twinkie

You are just getting started. Hopefully these will be your only issues. But I have my doubts. Keep a close eye on things. Don't be afraid to ask questions about things you don't understand. Get as many "shake down" trips in as you possibly can. Before the warranty expires. Good Luck!

Yup. USE IT!!! Get these fixed to
As near perfect as possible during warranty!

[m.hony]

After the initial problems on the day we took delivery were repaired we have not had any more issues. Some of the initial problems were due to lack of knowledge/caring on behalf of the dealer. Some things happened in transit from Jackson Center to the dealer. The dealers should be more aware/conscientious and have the trailers in perfect repair when the customer walks through them.
We use our trailer almost every week.
After the trip out this weekend we will have been gone 12 weeks straight with no issues whatsoever from the trailer or tow vehicle- one oil change and tire rotation on the tow vehicle- one bath for both trailer and tow vehicle-
The season is winding down. After this weekend we will actually stay home for a couple of weeks before we go out Thanksgiving. Then we will stay home about 6 weeks until Canopener. Then we may stay home up to 3 months until the Magnolia Messenger rally in April. Then it's on again.
Anyway- point is- no problems after weeks and weeks of use.
Our previous trailer never made it to the house. it would go from campground to dealer for service and from the dealer to the campground 5 or 6 weeks straight.
The Airstream has never been back to the dealer and probably never will.
I will take it to Jackson Center in September for any repairs/adjustments in September just before the warranty goes out in October. I can't get any cooperation/satisfaction from any dealer within 4-5 hours of me.

[Gene]

Cea… (can't remember how to spell your Forum name), I hope you have experienced all the things that can go wrong, but probably not. Some people are blessed by trailers with few problems and others (we are included in the unblessed group) have had repeated issues.

I hope you have a good dealership near you, because it is a long trip to the factory for warranty repairs. Cal. has a lot of dealers, so you probably have choices. We were also unblessed with a really bad dealer, so we had repairs done at the factory service center where quality work is done (unlike the factory itself).

After a couple of years, things have settled down. I have fixed things that were badly designed or where cheap materials were used. The Forum is a good source of info when you need it. If you are near the ocean, check out the corrosion thread (a good week's reading) to see how to prevent corrosion caused by sea salt, road salt and mysterious forces (I made up the last one, maybe).

Airstreams are cool to look at, have an excellent basic design, but the present leadership of the company has cut costs too far and has not been a good steward of the brand.

Gene

[Zia]

We have been lucky with both of our A/S. The current Serenity had three issues I like to mention here: 1) The Dinning table would not sit on the seats during conversion to bed configuration. Factory forgot to install rubber boots to keep it snug in between the benches, they mailed us the parts to install, 2) The screw which hold the dinnette seat back to the wall was kept coming loose, a lock washer took care of that issue, 3) Screws which hold the microwave keep coming loose that one was also fixed by using the lock washer. By the way our local dealer has been superb and always ready to do what ever we ask for.
We enjoyed both of our A/S and driven over 10,000 miles each. Like some of the folks has mentioned it is a house on wheels and require constant vigil and attention.

[fishfearme]

Hi- yes travel trailers are covered by the lemon law- it’s federal but I’ve forgotten the name. Google it. We have a 2018 Classic. Worst purchase ever. Has spent more time at Airstream then with us. 3 cancelled vacations, etc, etc. AIrstteams answer is always “well drive it back to us so we can look at it”. Been there done that now 4 times. Last time I was at the factory a group of Classic owners- all who were having such issues bemoaned their purchase. I’m working with an attorney who does this work for a percentage of the claim so they are out there. Our service has been absolutely terrible. The quality in this product is gone.