Small fire at Service Center at Jackson Center

[jaco]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

Here's my take on QC ~~~SNIP~~~
There were those business owners like Wally who would literally tear out a defective component on the production line and demand that it be done right. Now he knew it had some effect on production but it was his company and the buck stopped with him. ~~~SNIP~~~
Jack

Ah.... the shaping of legend.
moderator Jack is this documented fact or just percieved hope? or should I say hype?

The Big Lie is apparently, not that perfection is now (nor was it ever) possible or expected (most of us know that $#!% happens). Not that Byam's ghost is looking over the shoulders of the JaxCtr workforce (I doubt that they are driven toward perfection by apparitions), but that the marketing device that "handbuilt" "Rolls Royce" "Yacht Quality" is what you get when you buy Airstream has taken on a life of its own.

Once that perception is "out there" in the public psyche (and it is with Airstream) the laws of supply and demand can be tweaked a bit, always upward . In other words they can get away with a higher markup. After all people expect to pay more for the "finer things in life" don't they..?

Many factors have lead to the horns of the dilemma that I see Airstream being upon. But I have no solution. Perhaps they will become victims of their inability to live up to their own propaganda and perception, hopefully they will overcome the situation. Perhaps the problem is engineering instead of management or production (including QC). One thing appears to be sound, and that is Marketing.... How wonderful to budget so little and get so much..(free word of mouth advertising). Thanks in no small part to you members of the High Church of Wally aka LatterDay Holy Rollers. Wallyites, Alumapalians. (but that is a whole nother book).

But there are 2 things that transportation owners will not tolerate. LEAKS & SQUEAKS. If I were the CEO at Airstream, stopping LEAKS would be my war on Terrorism, my absolutely highest priority. Instead of being known as the trailer that could be pulled by a bicycle I would want to be known as the one that NEVER leaks. IMHO if the leaks are not eliminated (almost completely) then it will eventually be Airstreams Waterloo. pun intended.

Oh so fortunately... I am mere vintage* trailer trash, so as Alfred Byam (or was it Neuman) said "What's Me Worry..?
*and leaking

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by jaco

Ah.... the shaping of legend.
moderator Jack is this documented fact or just percieved hope? or should I say hype?

Well of course I was not a viewer of the deed, but it has been reported that his visits to the assembly area sometimes did produce some betterment to the line. Part of the process included his "corrections" of imperfections that he observed.

The statement that the trailer that started this fire "leaked pretty bad", is unclear and makes a person think that this new unit had water coming in all over. Personally I doubt it. It obviously had a leak and in an Airstream, its like looking for a needle in a haystack. Water takes the path of least resistance so where it surfaces can be very far from its leak point.

Based on how they test these units for leaks when they are built, I think the QC on the shell is good. I think most of us have seen through repeated postings that the problems when they occur are with the interiors and appliances, not the shell.

Even the Airstreams built in the "good old days" have eventually developed leaks and yes even SOB's leak. My new SOB in 1986 had a leak on day 1 and developed additional leaks over the course of the next 4 years. Nobody builds a leakproof TT.

Short of a defect at production time, most leaks in RV's, come from inadequate maintenance by the owners (and that statement includes me). Yes that means getting up on that roof and checking everything and anything that penetrates it. In 2002 I started the process on my '01 Safari. Not that I had any leaks, but in order to prevent them.

Jack

[bryanl]

Airstream does extensive leak checking before the inside is installed. The 'Made in America' show on the Travel Channel recently showed how they do this. This process might be one reason why everything inside the outer shell is installed through the door as they do this leak checking on the finished outer shell first.

It is difficult to rationalize significant leaks on a new Airstream with this process just as it is difficult to understand how a converter/charger could get water damage to fry it. More information is needed about the failures.

Also note that condensation is another problem often confused with leaks.

The classic Airstream has another advantage in regards to leaks as well in that its shape does not tend to trap or slow water.

One significant source of leaks in older Airstreams from what I can tell is around the plumbing vents.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Leipper

One significant source of leaks in older Airstreams from what I can tell is around the plumbing vents.

This goes along with my thoughts. Anything that is cut into that roof is a potential leak point. The sealer used at these openings has a minimal life. On my new Classic that means roof top TV antenna, radio antenna, two skylights, 3 roof hatches, tank vents, refrigerator vent, air conditioner....all potential leak points. That's my point in doing some type of annual rooftop maintenance.

Somehow I'm just not sure we have heard the complete story on this fire...and probably never will. There are other ways to leak water into the trailer that the leak test will not find, and are not plumbing induced...but that's another story for another time.

Jack

[wingfoot321]

Jack,
You were correct, first version was not accurate.

I am at J.C. and from a good source, a trailer was in bay one as Andy said, not sure why, but overhead cabinets had been taken down. A workmen left the rear overhead cabinet laying on the bed with coach hooked up to 110 volt and they think the overhead lights were on. This is still the unofficial version of what has happened. Fire did start inside the coach.

My source said the workman felt really bad that unit had been left hooked up and he had forgot and left.

It is being view as an accident at this point. Not a short, etc. but a fire started from a light on the bed.

[Silvertwinkie]

Wonder if the owner of the fire ravaged Airstream got a new 2005?

[talmage]

A few thought:
As stated before, where there is sealant, there will eventually be leaks. Depending on what kind of roads a trailer has been on, will probably determine how soon a trailer will leak. Twisting, bouncing, etc. play heavily into anything pulled on the roadways today, and will contribute to leaks, just as the weather does i.e., hot makes many sealants soft, cold makes many sealants brittle.
There is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for a trailer coming off the line with leaks! THAT is a sign of shoddy workmanship. The adhesives industries is constantly researching new ways to make a better product. If they don't, they will soon be out of business!
I wonder if the cost of a new Airstream has gone up in proportion to the cost say of a loaf of bread, minimum wage, etc? [Let's don't talk about gasoline.*]
With any type of complaint, I now always document who I talk to, date, time, etc. All letters are sent certified.
I can only presume I am younger than many of the Airstream owners on this forum [52], but I wish I would hear again sayings like -
"The customer is always right."
L8R,


* - p.s. - Speaking of gasoline, a good friend returned last week from an extended business trip.
His wife want him to take her somewhere expensive, so he took her to a gas station.
He should be out of the hospital by the end of the month!

[lynn]

While the facts that a customer was having warranty work performed at the Service Center is true ,the rest of the information is not.The seal tech machine used to test for leaks uses air pressure and a soap solution sprayed on with a garden sprayer; so exposure to water was not an issue. The Fire Marshall has not completed his investigation.He was at Airstream today and a cause of the fire is still undetermined.
Quality is always a concern and is an everyday part of the production process at Airstream.

[hohne]

...I did not mean to add fuel to the quality issue debate -- Silvertwinkie and I have been chatting about our problems...but I just want to state for the record...

My 2004 has some implementation flaws -- but the design is solid. You can fix implementation, but fixing design flaws is much harder, if even possible. Leaks are bad, and I agree with the thought that they should be very high on the AS list...I still have very intermittent brake issue that has everyone stumped...and I know AS's can go a long time without leaks with some PM.

But in my postings, I might be sad, but I know it is probably temporary...The dang thing is just still in Beta test, and things will be fixed up...

...And I need to learn how to spell Warantee...

[WayWard Wind]

I'll have to type the quote, as I can not figure out the way to just add it---anyhow I promised myself I'd stay away from the forum, until later, but alas here I am again. I must respond to Lynn's quote of "Quality is always a concern and is an everyday part of the process at Airstream" end quote--I'll only say---stay tuned & they're be more to come, depending on ????? Makes that quote a real laugh--if I hadn't invested so much $$$$ Lynn must work at A/S sorry I'm in a very very bad mood.
Best,

[rluhr]

Originally Posted by talmage

I wonder if the cost of a new Airstream has gone up in proportion to the cost say of a loaf of bread, minimum wage, etc?

My "new" 1977 Argosy 24 cost $8,753.09 with options when delivered. That's about $28,000 in today's dollars. A new 24-foot Airstream costs about $40,000 today, or about 43% more.

But the 2005 model year 24-footer has many additional features and (I dare say) higher build quality. Microwave, electronically controlled refrigerator, far superior stereo system, black tank flush, etc., and 27 years of design improvements.

And, the Argosy was a lower cost version of the Airstream. Corners were cut in the cabinetry and other finishings compared to the Airstreams of that day.

Even discounting all of that, the rise in price has been 43% over 27 years, or less than 1.5% per year (with compounding) over the rate of inflation. That's not much increase given the improvements & enhancements in the product.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by rluhr

But the 2005 model year 24-footer has many additional features and (I dare say) higher build quality. Microwave, electronically controlled refrigerator, far superior stereo system, black tank flush, etc., and 27 years of design improvements.

I'm not sure I'd agree with these statements fully. Having owned now two new Airstreams...a 2003 Bambi and now a 2004 Safari SS, I can share the following observations:

1) The 2004 Safari has had fewer issues than our 2003

2) As I've used the 2004, I've shaken a small list of issues..some avoidable, some not...one being the tank monitors...a fair number of folks are reporting issues with it.

3) Microwaves, stereos, electronic fridges and black tank flushes are not for the most part highly technological high cost items to justify almost 2x the cost of what other coaches cost. There have been improvements in build and engineering, still not worth almost 2x what some SOBs cost.

4)Having been the factory, I know they take quality seriously...but they also (as do other RV manufacs) get paid by the number of units pushed out the door, so the two in my mind are at bitter odds against each other.

5) Having said this, for all the frustrations and disappointments I've come across, there are a few reasons I would be inclinded to stick with Airstream:

- The folks at Airstream have taken good care of us. They've listened and promised to help. Anytime I call or email, I get answers and solutions.

-The RV just looks very cool. I mean how many SOB owners at a stoplight get into a conversation about their RV with the guy stuck at the light next to them? We do.

- Worth $40k+. Not really...but after poking my nose in several SOB units over the past 2-3 years, and seeing the Airstream...we just wanted one. Did we make a mistake? I don't think so. Have there been disappointments. Without question. Have I had service after the sale from the factory. As sure as I type this.

Who knows at the rate we are going, we'll be at a 34' by 2006 or 2007?

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by talmage

I wonder if the cost of a new Airstream has gone up in proportion to the cost say of a loaf of bread, minimum wage, etc?

My 1959 24' Tradewind cost $4814 inApril 1959. Current dollar value of that would be $32953 in April 2004, based on CPI.