Rollover in Quebec

[mandolindave]

Kayaks have some ratings that are difficult for most to quantify.

One is initial stability ( how easily the boat rocks ). ( trailer sways ?)

One is final stability ( how easily the boat capsizes ). ( trailer flips ?)

Some Kayaks rock very easily but are very hard to tip. I propose that a trailer rig that is easy to " rock" is also easy to " roll".

Originally Kayaks were designed to capsize. But it's not an exercise for novices, as there are some dangers involved.

My point is referring to mishaps, and safety. For the sake of argument…If a kayak flips 1% of outings…it's not very critical. If an Airsttream flips .001% of outings….. it's a major concern.

A statement like " I traveled 3000 miles with a storage trunk on my rear , with no problems " does not really translate to a safe practice.

A member stated the the driver would have immediately realized that there was a safety issue. ( a critical issue !!!) Why are these storage boxes legal ?

[white laker]

I think its time to get Sheldon Cooper involved! This one is getting too involved for me. Great opinions , totally unhampered with facts.
Pete

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by white laker

I think its time to get Sheldon Cooper involved! This one is getting too involved for me. Great opinions , totally unhampered with facts.
Pete

The photo of that huge box hung off the trailer, way beyond any Airstream recommendation, is not a "fact?"

Airstream accepts the Fiamma bike rack at about 92 pounds total weight, and hugging the rear bumper, as an acceptable rack. And no others as far as I know.

Fact!

Just because we don't know the actual weight of that huge box (empty and/or loaded) does not prevent reasonable people from discussing its suitability for the exact location shown in the photo.

[which is "not suitable" IMO]

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by white laker

I think its time to get Sheldon Cooper involved! This one is getting too involved for me. Great opinions , totally unhampered with facts.
Pete

I must be way far beloe ehverage...WTH is Sheldon Cooper?

Bob

[mandolindave]

Originally Posted by white laker

I think its time to get Sheldon Cooper involved! This one is getting too involved for me. Great opinions , totally unhampered with facts.
Pete

I also think safety is very important.

I have already agreed that facts are fact. Interpreting facts sure can lead to a lively discussion.

In this case, facts could lead to a lively discussion, as well. Facts such as what type of tow vehicle was involved in the very scary mishap.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

I must be way far beloe ehverage...WTH is Sheldon Cooper?

Bob

If your spelling is any indication . . .



Well, I agree -- who the heck is Sheldon Cooper? Guess we don't watch enough television! I had to look it up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheldon_Cooper

Cheers,

Peter

PS -- How about some new tunes on the OTRA Music thread?

[cazual6]

Error, I tried to copy a quote, but it was for another thread. This regard the length. I need more words so the is not to short to post.

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by RandyNH

I'm not sure where you thought you were posting, but this is the AIRSTREAM forums, I do not believe there is even a single "average" person here. I believe everyone to either be an engineer or in school to be an engineer, hence complicated formulas are just snack food (for thought)

I concur. Never really thought about it, but I concur.

Regardless of what anyone says in here, there are toooooooo many unknowns what caused this to make suggestions to why.

[cameront120]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

The photo of that huge box hung off the trailer, way beyond any Airstream recommendation, is not a "fact?"

Airstream accepts the Fiamma bike rack at about 92 pounds total weight, and hugging the rear bumper, as an acceptable rack. And no others as far as I know.

Fact!

Just because we don't know the actual weight of that huge box (empty and/or loaded) does not prevent reasonable people from discussing its suitability for the exact location shown in the photo.

[which is "not suitable" IMO]

So, you've determined the facts. What caused the accident?

[OTRA15]

cameront120, I have by no means determined "the facts." My reply was only to "white laker" who said we were "totally unhampered with facts," so I pointed out a couple of items which seem to be "facts" - at least for the purposes of this discussion.

As to the cause of the accident, I have no idea, as has been discussed.

Speaking personally, and in my opinion, I would be surprised if the weight distribution, including that large box off the rear, was not a factor, which may have led to a sway issue which the driver could not control.

Just a personal opinion.

Peter

[PKI]

This incident has more smoking guns than your average accident analysis. A reasonable take is that a trailer tire blew and the rig was traveling too fast to recover from the instability that followed. Add in the lack of extraordinary driver skills to compensate and you have the cause.

The increase in polar moment from the aft mounted gear, the possibility that the coach may have been a bit light on the tongue, and the cause of the tire failure can and should be considered contributing factors.

This is an interesting forensic analysis. Maybe not perfect, but don't be in denial. There are lessons to be learned here. I'm just glad no one has figured out what kind of tires are on the trailer.

You all travel safe. Pat

AW - I knew you were sandbagging us.

[OTRA15]

Great demo from Quebec PD:

https://mobile.twitter.com/OPCVC/sta...38710964002817

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...on-157806.html

[Papa smurf]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Great demo from Quebec PD:

https://mobile.twitter.com/OPCVC/sta...38710964002817

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...on-157806.html

Not that it makes any difference but it is from the Ontario police and not the Quebec police

[xrvr]

Third time today this has been referenced.

[dkottum]

Good demo to show effects of moving weight. That's an extreme, with that weight on the rear if you unhitched the little demo trailer it would fall onto its butt.

There was a very similar demo earlier this year showing he progressive effects of putting weight along different positions on the demo trailer model. I don't have the link. Same idea, keep front heavier than rear, 10-12% usually recommended.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by avionstream

Third time today this has been referenced.

Yes, and on-topic in each thread, for future reference purposes for folks reading things further on down the road.



Thanks Papa smurf for the correction.

[GCinSC2]

I saw a small rental trailer wagging the dog just like that demo. I safely passed it only to later catch it in my mirror violently swaying and then rolling over into the median.

Respect physics even if you don't understand it.

[Rich W]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Good demo to show effects of moving weight. That's an extreme, with that weight on the rear if you unhitched the little demo trailer it would fall onto its butt.

There was a very similar demo earlier this year showing he progressive effects of putting weight along different positions on the demo trailer model. I don't have the link. Same idea, keep front heavier than rear, 10-12% usually recommended.

My brother had an 18' bass boat that was very difficult to control on the highway. We unhitched it and the trailer still went down on the tongue wheel with plenty of weight. I noticed that the winch tower had slid backwards on the trailer, the U-bolts holding it had come loose. We launched the boat and I slid the tower fully forward and torqued the U-bolts down. We recovered the boat and he drove it home. He said it made a huge difference in the handling, all the shimmy was gone.

The weight distribution makes a big difference even if the trailer doesn't fall on its butt.

[Bbelk]

This is probably here somewhere, but it does clearly tell a story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jk9H5AB4lM

[Posse96]

I'm sort of late to this thread, but this is the 2nd Jeep incident I've seen with a larger Airstream. My immediate thought is, the max towing of all Jeep models currently is 3,500 lbs, per the spec sheets. It's why you don't see a lot of jeeps pulling large trailers. Based on the visual size of the trailer, and the possible add on of the gray container, they could have been well over the tow capacity of the Jeep