Adios Airstream

[SteSpot]

Originally Posted by Travel Bird

Only Airstream for me. I would never consider any other brand. I guess I just didn't realize that when I fork out that big cash for a new AS, I need to keep open about how many problems we will have. Just an eye opening thread but, very informative.

You have an advantage that Mojave didn't have in that you have more service options around the Denver area. Service is something you have to plan on......either with warranty or normal wear and tear......so try to line up those folks before hand.....and there are lots of folks from your area on the forums who will give you good advice....owning an Airstream can be an extremely rewarding experience.....just know that things can and do go wrong.....good luck....paula

[danlehosky]

Bruce, I'm sure your services are top notch. I disagree on paying for a dealer prep. Would you pay for an auto dealer to prep your new car?

When you pay 60,000 for a trailer it should be delivered spotless. You should have some instructions in how to use the various components and maintain them. Look at the owners manual you got with your last new car. I could keep a campfire going on the one I got with the Tahoe.

As I mentioned before your background and experience have prepared you for this experience in a way not many people are not. It should be part of AS's culture to make this as painless as possible.

This is the inconsistency in expectations and dealer service that AS needs to address. They need to put more effort into making sure the people who are not as informed as you get an equally good outcome.

Can you make me a good deal on an aluminum Vespa?

Dan

[Friday]

Originally Posted by Bruce B

I can't help but wonder if this entire fiasco could not have been prevented with a simple trip to a competent dealer for proper repairs in the first place.
1. It would have cost far less!
2. It would have been much faster.
3. You would have had a nice trailer in the end.

No one wants to be on the receiving end of a defective product but hey, life happens! Ask anyone who has had their Toyota in for recall in the past few years....Or Ford or Chevy, Mercedes.....

Lemonade from lemons might have been a trip with some camping along the way on the return home from the dealer or factory. I have no idea what it would have cost to get the trailer delivered there but I am sure it would have been less than the $20,000 spent!

This is all hindsight of course....

Bruce

Yes, but when I take my Toyota to a dealer, 15 minute away, and pick it up an hour later... it is FIXED.

6 weeks for repair, towing at my cost, poor work... doesn't compare at all to a vehicle recall...

[masseyfarm]

Where are they going wrong?
According to this video, an Airstream will make you a "happy camper", or is it just a "happy dream"?

Historical Airstream: Building Dreams is our Business - YouTube

Better to go to utube and watch it on full screen.


Dave

Originally Posted by danlehosky

I disagree on paying for a dealer prep. Would you pay for an auto dealer to prep your new car?

Dan

[Bruce B]

Originally Posted by danlehosky

Bruce, I'm sure your services are top notch. I disagree on paying for a dealer prep. Would you pay for an auto dealer to prep your new car?

When you pay 60,000 for a trailer it should be delivered spotless. You should have some instructions in how to use the various components and maintain them. Look at the owners manual you got with your last new car. I could keep a campfire going on the one I got with the Tahoe.

As I mentioned before your background and experience have prepared you for this experience in a way not many people are not. It should be part of AS's culture to make this as painless as possible.

This is the inconsistency in expectations and dealer service that AS needs to address. They need to put more effort into making sure the people who are not as informed as you get an equally good outcome.

Can you make me a good deal on an aluminum Vespa?

Dan

Dan,

As for paying for PDI remember what I said... You don't get what you don't pay for! It may not be on the invoice but you are paying for it (cars too...).

I have an owners manual with my Airstream....?????
I think it full of lots of information! I read all manuals (usually several times!)

As to dealer service and expectations, my thoughts are this. Pay a fair price and choose a great dealer! We all know who the good (great) dealers are. The dealer is the buffer between Airstream and the consumer. It is a very important relationship......

I think we need a "Great dealer reporting system" No bitching allowed just reports of extraordinary service.... Let the bad dealers be conspicuous in their absence.

When Piaggio builds an aluminum Vespa I'll ket you know!

Bruce

[Road Ruler]

:7(

Sorry to see you leaving us.

Really enjoyed reading your posts and luved your cool combo.

[Rich of SCal]

Originally Posted by Travel Bird

I have read each comment on this post and have to admit, it is making me a bit nervous! We are still in the "searching" stage and had no idea there are so many service issues. I am going to forge forward with my dream but, this to me is a scary thread!!!

I don't blame you. If I had read this thread before buying mine last January, I probably would have passed on it. The wolves are hungry and merciless. And good luck in finding a reliable dealer. I'm sure each one will tell you truthfully how reliable they are...not. It's just like with cars, you usually find out the hard way. But with cars, there are a lot more to choose from. Good luck.

[Friday]

I have one point about PDI... is it ever an option??? No. So really it's part of the cost of the vehicle. It's the same as 'doc' fees... can you ever sell a new car WITHOUT a bill of sale? No. So, charging extra is just another scam.

Grocery stores inspect apples as they put them on the shelf for display... don't see PDI charged there...

[danlehosky]

Bruce, why is a dealer like a buffer. Shouldn't they be more like a link? I guess the broader point I'm trying to make is of course there are good dealers and they should be recognized. I think my dealer is good. I don't understand the business relationship AS has with It's dealers. Are the agreements standard or do they vary? If standards are stipulated in the contracts why are results so uneven. How is dealer satisfaction measured by AS or THOR? What are the concequences of poor service? The whole arrangement makes no sense to me and this is where my question lies. How do you become an AS dealer? Are they franchises? Are they independent dealers who merely sell product with little or no oversight? How much discression do the dealers have? If they or an AS approved dealer fail to provide a reasonable outcome the accountability should be with them and not be held by people like Mohave. AS should cut him a check for twenty grand.

Warranty service should be defined by standards established by AS. Dealers, as agents should perform this sevice as a part of their established relationship.Whatever that may be.

I know I'm hammering on this. I'm done now.

Dan

[ROBERT CROSS]

Bruce,

Not knowing for sure but we can guess that you purchased from one of the BEST AS dealers in the Country, a perfect illustration of how important a quality dealership is.

By the time we got our new trailer home and I completed my own PDI the selling dealer had closed. Did not bode well for the future.

FWIW...we did not pay for a PDI we didn't get.

JC will not accept the fact that they have problems that need to be addressed.
Until they do we really can't expect much progress.

There's a closed thread, that should be required reading for all, that brings that fact to the fore.

Bob

[Bruce B]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Bruce,

Not knowing for sure but we can guess that you purchased from one of the BEST AS dealers in the Country, a perfect illustration of how important a quality dealership is.

By the time we got our new trailer home and I completed my own PDI the selling dealer had closed. Did not bode well for the future.

FWIW...we did not pay for a PDI we didn't get.

JC will not accept the fact that they have problems that need to be addressed.
Until they do we really can't expect much progress.

There's a closed thread, that should be required reading for all, that brings that fact to the fore.

Bob

Bob,
We purchased from a very "together" dealership, no doubt!
I have no suggestions for Thor/Airstream on PDI's. Vespas have multiple documents with each scooter that dictate exactly what needs to be done. The mechanic signs each one and acknowledges that the work is completed. We get training on the subject. Yet we still see lots (delivered by other dealers) that have never even been ridden! Loose head-sets, misadjusted idle speed etc.
The same dealers are the ones that offer the biggest discounts and are known for the worst service! Now, with a Vespa we are not talking about a big paycheck at the end of the sale. There is a considerable amount of financial pressure to get the things out the door. Time spent is money after all.
This goes back to my comment earlier that we all pay for PDI's. One way or another.....

You know, these trailers are complex, hand built, units produced in a way that no auto manufacturer has embraced in many many years. The result of this is the Airstream we know and love (sometimes), I am surprised and thankful it still exists. It is kind of like buying a modernized 50's Ford. I think we forget (or never knew) just how bad those cars were, at least compared to modern autos.

Understand what you are buying, choose a good dealer, negotiate a fair price and I think you will be happy.

Bruce

[ROBERT CROSS]

"I am surprised and thankful it still exists. It is kind of like buying a modernized 50's Ford. I think we forget (or never knew) just how bad those cars were, at least compared to modern autos."

Bruce,

I resemble that remark.

Bob

[Bruce B]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

"I am surprised and thankful it still exists. It is kind of like buying a modernized 50's Ford. I think we forget (or never knew) just how bad those cars were, at least compared to modern autos."

Bruce,

I resemble that remark.

Bob

That is a beauty Bob!
She yours? Now I understand your Airstream disease a little better....
Bruce

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Bruce B

That is a beauty Bob!
She yours? Now I understand your Airstream disease a little better....
Bruce

Actually it belonged to the DW's Maternal Grandmother, so it's been in the Family since new, original un-restored. We are now the custodians.

It's good to have varied addictions.

Bob

[Bruce B]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Actually it belonged to the DW's Maternal Grandmother, so it's been in the Family since new, original un-restored. We are now the custodians.

It's good to have varied addictions.

Bob

That is just way too cool! Keep her well and enjoy her. I love cars that have a known history.
Thanks,
Bruce

p.s. I hope she forgives me for my comments comparing her to modern autos....

[Mojave]

Originally Posted by Road Ruler

:7(

Sorry to see you leaving us.

Really enjoyed reading your posts and luved your cool combo.

Thanks, our combo was quite the head-turner

Safe travels...see you on down the road!

[Gene]

I don't think it is easy for Airstream to secure dealers. A couple of years ago someone on the Forum said Airstream had stopped financing the trailers for the dealers. It was hard for dealers to get financing elsewhere. I don't remember who posted that, but I did notice when in Denver, the big dealer there had very few on their lot. In the past they had 10 or more. Last time I drove past there, earlier this year, they had 4 or 5 in view and in the past (2007) they had about the same number in back.

Airstream is not a big seller. They may be in the area of 1,400 sales/year, but even if twice that, when you divide it up, how many dealers could make it a major offering? You don't see many Ferrari or Lotus dealerships either. As long as Airstream is a small player, there can't be many dealers.

But that is no excuse for badly performing dealers.

At the risk of insulting Bob's wife's family Ford, I think Bruce was onto something. There is a difference between tinkering with an old design and a complete redesign. Keep the idea of wheels and a box with rounded off corners, but question everything, look at it as if you know nothing about the original, and kick the people out of the room who say things like "we tried that in 1974 and it didn't work". Airstream needs that kick in the pants, but unlikely it will get it in the foreseeable future.

That old Ford is well kept and pretty in its own way, but would you go back to those cars compared to the improvements made since?

Gene

[Air Apparent]

Reading this thread would scare me about buying an Airstream .

We purchased a new Classic 30 in 2005. Before buying I had done a lot of reading on various RV forums and was aware that all RV manufactures had quality problems. (At the time there were many complaints about Fleetwood.) But I figured that with a two year warranty I would get whatever needed to be fixed free of charge. The key was to make sure the work was done correctly.

We had no major issues; just a few minor issues.

When we purchased or second Airstream I guess I was naive as I bought it sight unseen form a dealer in Arkansas. I had a problem with the disc brakes but fixed under warranty; some other minor issues.

I came to the conclusion from my reading various RV forums that ALL RV manufacturers have quality issues. This includes Prevost; I read where one caught fire on it's first time out.

So I started with an expectation that there would be issues but they would be correctly fixed under warranty. That has been the situation in my case.

I also realize that over time all RVs are going to have mechanical issues. Airstream recommends that all seams be inspected every five years and repaired where necessary.

RVs will never be built to the quality tolerances of a car because RVs will never have the volumes to justify the automation needed to achieve those tolerances. Even then I have had warranty work done on my cars.

Airstreams are hand built; always will be because of the low volume. As others have said, the key is being able to get the service work done correctly and timely.

[Bruce B]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

I don't think it is easy for Airstream to secure dealers. A couple of years ago someone on the Forum said Airstream had stopped financing the trailers for the dealers. It was hard for dealers to get financing elsewhere. I don't remember who posted that, but I did notice when in Denver, the big dealer there had very few on their lot. In the past they had 10 or more. Last time I drove past there, earlier this year, they had 4 or 5 in view and in the past (2007) they had about the same number in back.

Airstream is not a big seller. They may be in the area of 1,400 sales/year, but even if twice that, when you divide it up, how many dealers could make it a major offering? You don't see many Ferrari or Lotus dealerships either. As long as Airstream is a small player, there can't be many dealers.

But that is no excuse for badly performing dealers.

At the risk of insulting Bob's wife's family Ford, I think Bruce was onto something. There is a difference between tinkering with an old design and a complete redesign. Keep the idea of wheels and a box with rounded off corners, but question everything, look at it as if you know nothing about the original, and kick the people out of the room who say things like "we tried that in 1974 and it didn't work". Airstream needs that kick in the pants, but unlikely it will get it in the foreseeable future.

That old Ford is well kept and pretty in its own way, but would you go back to those cars compared to the improvements made since?

Gene

Gene,
A couple of quick comments before I go back to work...
I know that in Motorcycle/Scooter world, the boating world and in the Automotive world many dealers use GE Finance to floor-plan their inventory. In early 2009 GE tightened up the money supply. There was a lot of that going on in those days.... I am guessing that all industries got hit to some degree, Airstream included.

I agree with the statement about bad dealers. In general bad dealers of luxury items do not hang around long. Customers spending hard earned money for luxury things demand service. Dealers that don't comply.... well you know!

As for Airstream's market share, I think that the funkiness is what attracted me to my Bambi in the first place. It might be interesting to see a new design but I'd be attracted to the old style myself anyway. I think of my Airstream as having soul and I like that! As much as I enjoyed my 2004 MINI it was not a vehicle with a lot of Soul. The original MINI's however had lots! There is no question an Airstream is not for everybody. Cost to own and some of the challenges of getting the trailer sorted put them out of the reach of many. I am sure that Airstream is very aware of the challenges associated with its products. They gave every indication (at the feedback forum at Alumapalooza) that they are constantly trying to address what owners see as shortfalls. They sounded very credible to me!
Remember too that many of have very good experiences with our purchases!
Mt critiques are in the nit picking category.

I just hope they continue to refine and produce what I believe is the worlds coolest trailer.

Bruce

[dkottum]

There is an assumption here that Airstream is building lousy trailers. We have bought a new 2007 Airstream, and liked it so we bought a larger 2012 Airstream. The first one was virtually trouble-free and a high-quality unit, the new one is more beautifully designed and finished. I have looked at many RVs, my impression is they are at the top of the heap and improving, nothing comes close in towing, design, styling, build, and pride of ownership no matter its age.

Corrosion and leaks will happen, as in all RVs. It's a matter of inspection and maintenance right from the get-go; the day you bring it home treat it for corrosion and inspect for leaks. You can only inspect for subfloor leaks by probing through the vinyl into the subfloor (at the edges where leaks happen) with a moisture detection meter. I found dampness below the door hinge (loosened after 6 months living in it) only with a meter.

The reality is you can blame the company, the dealer, and a full moon but its up to you to get things fixed while under warranty, then maintain your trailer, your house or your old Ford if you want a lifetime of use from it. No one does it better than Robert Cross, we can learn much from him.

There are lemon Airstreams and dealers out there, but certainly not all.

doug k