The unofficial pp users guide...

[khollister]

Oh - just to answer any outstanding questions about the setup ...

Trailer - 2005 25' Safari SE (aka Flying Cloud)
16" wheels, Michelin MT tires @ 70 psi cold
Loaded weight approx 6800# (I need to reduce the trailer tire pressure probably)
measured tongue weight via Shurline scale - 850# loaded for travel

Current tow vehicle - 2014 Ram 2500 diesel, crew cab, shortbed, 4x4, factory 20" wheels/tires. 70/75 psi font/rear.

Previous TV - 2005 Ram 3500 diesel, crew cab, longbed, 4x2, 17" wheels. 70/75 psi front/rear.

1000# bars on the ProPride, per Sean's recommendation.

Trailer rides level with just a hint of nose down, yoke is parallel to from, bars parallel to frame when tensions with a hint of curvature. Truck rear ride height is slightly above level, minimal change in front ride height (less than 1/2" difference).

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by khollister

.................................................. .........

Sean's recommendation was to tune the WD bars preload based on ride, not by scale tickets given my specific trailer and tow vehicle and that is my first course of action.
.............................................

I am glad to hear that, because that is the system I arrived at on my own. Over time I have arrived at a system that consistently will result in a comfortable ride in the TV and apparently also in the trailer judging from objects staying place.

My TV is similar to yours (3/4 ton short bed, quad cab, diesel Dodge). Mine is 4x4. My trailer is longer and heavier. I have 1400# bars, I use the crank that Airstream supplies for the stabilizing pads to raise and lower the WD jacks. I count the number of turns on the crank rather than measuring the amount of jack raised in inches. After experimenting I found for my particular setup, that 40 turns (each side) is the best place to start for the trailer empty, and 43 is the best for it fully loaded for camping. That is a pretty narrow range considering we carry a lot of stuff when we camp. The TV bed has a fiberglass canopy (shell, topper, cap, etc) When camping it is usually fairly well loaded, with heavy items in the front of bed.

When we first start out for the day, I look for a fairly smooth ride, porpoising, or jolting. We generally drive a few miles (as many as ten) before we make any adjustments. If I am not happy with the ride, we pull over and I crank the jack up (for porpoising) or down for jolting. 2 or 3 turns is usually sufficient to find the sweet spot. That is a pretty narrow range if you thing about the total number of turns we start with. So a lot of trial and error may go into finding the initial starting points and once found it takes very few turns to get out of it.

Of course none of this will compensate for rough poorly maintained roads (Arizona) or highways that were apparently poured without expansion joints causing a sharp ridge at each joint (Iowa)

Hope this gives you some hope

Ken

[khollister]

Since there was no jolting (or anything else to telegraph the problems I found in the trailer at the end of the day), the only course of action I have is to reduce the preload until porpoising is felt and then add a bit of preload back.

Ram completely redesigned the suspension on the 2500's in 2014 including coil rear, and I think part of the difficulty in setup is that it is really good at absorbing most of the impulses that would normally be communicated back into the tow vehicle. The springs appear to be pretty progressive as well, masking any significant ride height changes as you crank the bar tension.

I'm fairly sure I can get there since I know it is not a truck or hitch problem due to others having success with either or both. And since the bar tension and ride attitude of the trailer are the only variables, tweaking it can't be too hard.

Originally Posted by Ag&Au

I am glad to hear that, because that is the system I arrived at on my own. Over time I have arrived at a system that consistently will result in a comfortable ride in the TV and apparently also in the trailer judging from objects staying place.

My TV is similar to yours (3/4 ton short bed, quad cab, diesel Dodge). Mine is 4x4. My trailer is longer and heavier. I have 1400# bars, I use the crank that Airstream supplies for the stabilizing pads to raise and lower the WD jacks. I count the number of turns on the crank rather than measuring the amount of jack raised in inches. After experimenting I found for my particular setup, that 40 turns (each side) is the best place to start for the trailer empty, and 43 is the best for it fully loaded for camping. That is a pretty narrow range considering we carry a lot of stuff when we camp. The TV bed has a fiberglass canopy (shell, topper, cap, etc) When camping it is usually fairly well loaded, with heavy items in the front of bed.

When we first start out for the day, I look for a fairly smooth ride, porpoising, or jolting. We generally drive a few miles (as many as ten) before we make any adjustments. If I am not happy with the ride, we pull over and I crank the jack up (for porpoising) or down for jolting. 2 or 3 turns is usually sufficient to find the sweet spot. That is a pretty narrow range if you thing about the total number of turns we start with. So a lot of trial and error may go into finding the initial starting points and once found it takes very few turns to get out of it.

Of course none of this will compensate for rough poorly maintained roads (Arizona) or highways that were apparently poured without expansion joints causing a sharp ridge at each joint (Iowa)

Hope this gives you some hope

Ken

[extiger]

When doing some routine maintenance on the trailer, including lubing the Pro Pride, I noticed on of the lower dust caps was missing and the other had a dent. I call to Sean and a few days later, new ones showed up. Sean also suggested checking all nuts for tightness. Great after the sale support!!!

[rbs]

Replaced the F150 with a 2015 F250 and started the measuring for the ProPride. Found all of the hitch measurments to be nearly identical. Measured and recorded wheel well heights unloaded, hitched up and headed for the Cat scales. Weighed with trailer attached then weighed just the TV and to our delight the front axle weight was exactly the same with 6" on the torsion bars. Attached picture taken after weighing

[time2play]

rbsev, your profile still says "currently looking". What kind of AS trailer do you have? Just curious.

[rbs]

Originally Posted by time2play

rbsev, your profile still says "currently looking". What kind of AS trailer do you have? Just curious.

not certain why that post was under "rbsev", I have been using rbs as my log in. Anyway, we have a 25' Classic

[gomotomoto]

As a newbie - I'm having trouble wrapping my head around something. Hopefully someone can shed some light for me.

Am I correct when I say the tongue weight determines how much pressure is placed on the weight distribution bars? And if so, since there's nothing measuring the force on those bars -- how do you know when your dialed in?

I've read through this thread a few times already and was reluctant to post for fear of getting reprimanded for not reading through...😁 I'm just not getting the overall concept on how to set those Weight Distribution bars and how the setting was measured.

If I missed something, I apologize but I can't find what I'm looking for in this thread I'm sure it's buried in here, just can't seem to find it.

[PharmGeek]

My experience on airforums is largely you need not worry about that sort of reprimand - plenty of repeat questions - the google search function can help you find specific relevant posts buried within lengthy threads - and if that fails ask without fear including a specific new thread

I think specific smaller threads are helpful sometimes too


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[gomotomoto]

Yes, I'm only experiencing only super nice people here

The search function isn't producing good results either, but will keep looking. I did post up specific questions, including weight dist settings and was directed back to this thread

Around pages 29-30. There's a bit of talk in the topic but it seems folks are doing this differently.

[PharmGeek]

I may be wrong but tongue weight does not determine the pressure on the WD bars - the amount you crank the WD jacks does

When hooked up and WD bars are loose there is no stress on them - crank up the jacks and more and more is on them

How you know you are "dialed in"

Technically the only way to "know" is to hit the cat scales and do some various measurements

I have not yet done this - so far for me I just fiddled with it - when I originally started Sean advised 6 inches as the height of the WD jack (if you do not understand this point I can get a photo) - I have found that 6.5 inches works good - my steering feels good all "feels good" - works for me - I want to hit the cat scales too though and go through that exercise - I just keep forgetting to

Definately less than 6 inches and it does not feel right for me

Some on this thread say don't bother with cat scales - others say do - I am kinda anal and want to do it once I remember to do it


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[lsbrodsky]

The best way to set the wd bars is at a CAT scale so that you get the weight back on the front axle as Detroit intended it. There are threads on how to use the CAT scales. Some other folks simple measure the height of the front somewhere, usually the fender above the wheel, before hooking up, then crank the wd bars to bring the fender back down to that height after hooking up. But I have only been at this for 18 months. I used a CAT scale. Seems like most people with the ProPride are at 5-6" measured at the wd jacks.
Larry

[PharmGeek]

I have not yet tried measuring at the wheel well either

Also you will find that after fully hooked up - you may want to jack up the tongue jack - then crank up the WD jacks to desired height / then bring tongue jack back up

I first tried jacking them up by hand - whew - hard to do


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[gomotomoto]

Helpful guys!!

Now I think it's starting to sink in. It's about my tow vehicles front axle!?!?

If so, I think that's the method I'll use initially as the scales seem a bit too technical for me to do alone.

So...

1. Measure the front fender unhooked
2. Hook up the PP
3. Adjust the bars to return the tv back to its height when unhooked
4. This should be 5"-6" (somewhere in that neighborhood...

Is that it in a nutshell?

[PharmGeek]

Not quite - hold on - I'll get a photo


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[PharmGeek]

6 inches once all hitched up - can adjust this height (and bar tension this WD) by measuring wheel well change or by cat scale methods) I'll try and explain a bit more later and others can correct me as I am still learning


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[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by gomotomoto

Helpful guys!!

Now I think it's starting to sink in. It's about my tow vehicles front axle!?!?

If so, I think that's the method I'll use initially as the scales seem a bit too technical for me to do alone.

So...

1. Measure the front fender unhooked
2. Hook up the PP
3. Adjust the bars to return the tv back to its height when unhooked
4. This should be 5"-6" (somewhere in that neighborhood...

Is that it in a nutshell?

Trust me - if I can manage the scales - ANYONE can :-)

But for starters, you have the idea. Odds are very low you're looking at 5" of lift. It might be more like an inch depending on the stiffness of your truck's rear suspension - which is exactly why the scales are really the best way to measure but for sure, start with the fender measurements. Do double check your truck's manual for specific recommendations for your unique setup. One size may not fit all!

Good luck!

[SteveSueMac]

Oh - you mean 6" on the jacks - yes - that might be the zone - Pharm's pic is a good guide.

[lsbrodsky]

You have got the idea and his pic is a good aid. either the manual or this thread recommended a piece of tape on the supplied long wrench handle so that you can use it to measure the jack height on subsequent hookups, no need to take a tape measure with you. You use the tape height at the wd jack.
Larry

[PharmGeek]

just to provide some understanding (and correct me if I am wrong) as you seem to be questioning the concept of moving the weight back up on the front axel...

when you put a load on the back of the truck like that with travel trailer tongue weight - it drops down the rear end, and it tends to lift up the front end.

If you measure the height from the ground to the top of the front wheel well without trailer hitched up...it will be X.....then when hitched up, it may be X+Y...giving you a higher elevation of the wheel well.

AS I UNDERSTAND - one of the issues with this is that your steering and control of the vehicle is more “loose”.....I can verify this in my experience as I once tried 5.5 inches with alot of stuff in my truck for a trip and just thought I would give it a shot and see if it made things a tad less bumpy or harsh...and I quickly pulled over on the next highway exit as it felt downright loose and WEIRD...jacked it up to 6.75 and it felt as I felt it should....(I had a bunch more stuff with me on that particular trip including a 10x10 pop up tent and other stuff usually not going with me...

hope this helps kinda clear up things a tad.