The unofficial pp users guide...

[KJRitchie]

Does anyone have any issues when going over road transitions to gas stations and other irregular road surfaces? Some of the photos of PP installs show the bars to be very close to the ground.

Thanks

Kelvin

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

Does anyone have any issues when going over road transitions to gas stations and other irregular road surfaces? Some of the photos of PP installs show the bars to be very close to the ground.

Thanks

Kelvin

Never a problem. I believe when going over these transitions truck nose up, the increased stiffness of the bars is enough to lift truck rear and trailer front well over. When truck nose down the hitch is angled upward well over the transition. Really no different than any other w.d. hitch.

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

Does anyone have any issues when going over road transitions to gas stations and other irregular road surfaces? Some of the photos of PP installs show the bars to be very close to the ground.

Thanks

Kelvin

I used to get a bit of a scrape at times from the skid plates on the rear of the trailer and the safety chains would sometimes touch the ground when leaving the road and entering a parking lot. However just the 1+ inch of clearance gained when switching to 16 inch wheels and tires has so far totally eliminated that.

Ken

[PharmGeek]

We have not had this problem - I have to run over a drainage curb into my front lawn and worries but it did not scrape

I avoid entering gas stations with any questionable dips as I just don't have a sense yet if I'll bottom out the AS


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[PharmGeek]

As is - rock tamers are a no go on my 3P hitch?


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[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by PharmGeek

As is - rock tamers are a no go on my 3P hitch?


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If that's a question, I would say No, they probably will work.
How easy it will be will depend on where the holes in the side of the hitch receiver are drilled. In my case with the ProPride pinned in place on the truck there is enough free space left on the 2x2 horizontal shaft portion of the hitch for the Rock Tamer's collar to fit.
Is that clear enough?

Someone here has mentioned mounting the Rock Tamers on the vertical portion of the hitch. I don't know how though. I could not do that with my setup.

Ken

[PharmGeek]

What is the precise space needed for the collar to fit on that bit of horizontal shaft?


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[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by PharmGeek

What is the precise space needed for the collar to fit on that bit of horizontal shaft?


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31/32" perhaps a little less.

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by Ag&Au

31/32" perhaps a little less.

If you don't have that much, I would call Rock Tamers and talk with them. They're very nice people and may have dealt with this before.

Rock Tamers : Rock Tamers Systems

Ken

[ghaynes755]

Pharm do you have any bit of the vertical PP hitch shaft extending above the head of the receiver? If so you can still mount the RT's. And you may have enough room on the receiver shaft. On the GMC's, 2500 series, the 2 inch adapter has a flared head and it is just enough that the RT's won't fit on the receiver shaft.

Mine looks like this

[PharmGeek]

Ghaynes - yep - I have that vertical bit - plenty it seems - going to measure it tomorrow - I'll def call rock tamers folks and verify all before ordering - thanks for the detailed info and pics you all!!


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[PharmGeek]

Matter of fact - quite sure I got more of that vertical than that


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[khollister]

Finally had my first tow with the PP bringing the trailer home from Virginia Highland Haven for the season. Towed great, ride in the cab of the truck was fantastic. However when I went inside the trailer at home, it was clear the trailer had a much rougher ride than being towed "naked" ( no WD) on my old 1 ton DRW. What puzzles me is how the trailer could be beat up even though the ride in the new truck (2014 Ram 2500) with the PP was much softer than the old truck (2005 Ram 3500 DRW. I used 5" of lift on the jacks and everything is level and looks picture perfect.

any ideas?


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[cwf]

Did you have full fresh water tank? If empty, the trailer could ride more stiffly... especially if you have the 1400# WD bars. Just a couple of thoughts..

[BAB]

I have the same truck as you, though I'm pulling a 28' Intl CCD (heavier trailer), and it has 950 lbs on the tongue. I use 5 1/2" lift on my jacks unless everything is full, then I go up to 6. I run on 16" wheels and Michelin LT's. I've found that 65 pounds of air in the tires seems ideal. If you're using GYM's you don't have much choice but to use a lot higher pressure, and that can make for a rough ride...

[khollister]

Full tank, 1000# bars. I talked with Sean this evening and he suggested reducing the bar tension. While I understand that too much torsion in the bars could stiffen the ride, I am confused on why my rig would require so much less tension.


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[khollister]

Originally Posted by BAB

I have the same truck as you, though I'm pulling a 28' Intl CCD (heavier trailer), and it has 950 lbs on the tongue. I use 5 1/2" lift on my jacks unless everything is full, then I go up to 6. I run on 16" wheels and Michelin LT's. I've found that 65 pounds of air in the tires seems ideal. If you're using GYM's you don't have much choice but to use a lot higher pressure, and that can make for a rough ride...

I also have 16" and Michelins at 70 psi. My measured tongue weight is 825 lbs.

I guess the tongue weight must be the variable.


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[ghaynes755]

Keith time to go to the CAT scales and weigh everything so that you can dial in the ProPride. Do a search on Ron Gratz and follow his three step plan. You can plug the data into this spreadsheet that I built based on Ron's steps and math. Also see the post at http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...ml#post1521330

1_Cat Calc Sierra 2500 7-23-14.xlsx

[cwf]

Originally Posted by khollister

I also have 16" and Michelins at 70 psi. My measured tongue weight is 825 lbs.

I guess the tongue weight must be the variable.

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My 'tongue weight' is right at 10% of the trailer weight.. on our 34'.. this is a great spot to be.. but, with the PP, if you reduce the load on the WD's it can/does throw other adjustments off.

I can raise/lower the front of the AS by increasing/decreasing the WD adjustment. I run on the 'center' hole of the adjusting bars. I have run at 4.5 to 6 inches on the "BAL adjusters"... but, with a full load on TV and in the AS (minus a weeks worth of food), things run smoothly.

Was your AS off the tires during storage? If not, the tires may have 'flat spotted' and could shake the AS a LOT... What are your tires and Pressures? There are a lot of things to consider... but, all in all, the AS seems to like the PP... I put my iPhone on 'video record' and towed before/after with the EzyLift and after install of PP.. and actually sounded quieter with the PP...

We also installed Centramatics and new tires... which were carefully balanced... and things finally 'settled' down... we don't get a lot of 'movement' inside now.

We don't tow over 65.. and usually run about 60-62... did you vary your speed/takeoff/stopping process over previous TV?

Our PP has the 1400# bars... which should yield a 'harsher' ride if not working properly.. but I haven't seen that.

What I did notice.. is that setting of the Stinger on the hitch was very crucial... and my hitch location, although concrete, is sloped for water control... so I do not have the best place to measure... to resolve this, I took the truck and trailer to a better spot and unhitched. I made the measurements in this 'static' location. I returned home and repeated the process. This gave me a 'delta'/variance to factor in of about 1.5"...I used those numbers on the 'measurements' you take using Sean's procedure and the AS ran straighter and more level....

As for the 'weight transfer', I used the BAL adjusters to 'transfer' an appropriate 'squat' on the TV.. same front/rear. So, when I am about to 'hook up', I measure front and rear of TV then crank up the BAL adjuster to 5"...and the 'squat' is right on the money. The AS runs a slightly 'nose high' attitude of 1.5 degrees, or about 3/8 " higher at the front of the AS Beltline than the rear... or about 3/16 over the 34'.

Sorry if this is a ramble.. but, recheck your hookup on the new TV... just to be sure things are running as you set them to...

Let us know....

[khollister]

In no particular order ...

While the tires could have been flat-spotted, previous experience suggests it is not a likely cause. If I was still running GYM's, yes, but the Michelin 16" MT's (on both the trailer and my previous truck) have never done that in several years. Several of the folks up at VHH also have 16" Michelins on trailers that sit there all season and no one has mentioned having a tire problem because of it. Good suggestion, but that is personally somewhat down on the list of likely suspects.

I knew it was a matter of time before the scale ticket discussion came up, and while I completely support the importance of attention to weight distribution when using 1/2 ton vehicles (or worse) to tow medium-to-large trailers, my own experience (as well as others I have talked to) indicate that achieving exact weight restoration with 3/4 and 1 ton diesel trucks with relatively lightweight trailers (Airstreams) is far less critical. Diesel trucks have a much higher front axle load due to the weight of the engines (especially so for the Ram - the Cummins motor is heavier than the aluminum Ford PS or GM Dmax) and the tongue weight of the average Airstream just doesn't make that much of a difference to the driving dynamics of a vehicle that is rated for 6000-7000# per axle with more than 50% of the unloaded curb weight already on the front axle due to the Cummins motor (a huge cast iron assembly).

I drove a 3500 DRW Ram for years with this trailer and no WD or sway control, and never experienced any issues even in stiff crosswinds, evasive maneuvers, sudden stops & high speed semi passings in spite of the rear suspension being visibly lowered by the tongue weight of the trailer. I am NOT trying to start a safety/scale religious war in this thread (plenty of those already here), but I (and Sean, BTW) just don't believe a 200-300# difference in axle loading on a 10,000# GVWR nose-heavy vehicle has any real world significance. If you are towing a 34' AS with a 1500/150, thats a different story.

Sean's recommendation was to tune the WD bars preload based on ride, not by scale tickets given my specific trailer and tow vehicle and that is my first course of action. It is interesting that both my observation and Sean's unprompted comment was that the bar tension makes relatively little difference in the height of the nose of the trailer - this just confirms my belief that transferring the few hundred pounds into the TV doesn't make much of a difference. After all, we are talking less than a 10% difference in the front axle weight between no WD and complete weight restoration.

I bought the PP for sway control as I was not willing to take the chance that the shorter wheelbase (old truck was a longbed, new truck is a shortbed) SRW vehicle would replicate the performance I got with no WD/SC on the old rig, especially since I was going to tow the trailer home 700 miles first time.

I'll report back my findings with reduced preload but it will be a while. We had a lot of rain this fall in FL and my back yard is pretty soft where I pull the trailer through from the pole barn it is stored under. I already have a lot of ruts from parking it yesterday after towing it home, so I want the ground to dry out more before taking some test runs to fine tune the bars.

My plan is to first check the ride height/attitude with no tension on the bars to confirm in my mind that 1100# (tongue weight+hitch weight) is not a problem for the truck and then find the lightest bar tension that does not yield "porpoising", which Sean says is the result of too little bar tension.

The one thing that still confounds me is how the ride at the trailer can be so much stiffer when the ride in the TV is so much better. It would seem that the rigid coupling (compared to no WD) would transfer shock in both directions, which certainly was my experience on the old truck - the ride towing was worse than unloaded until I added an AirSafe hitch. The ride with the new Ram & PP hitch is at least as good as the old truck with the AirSafe, if not better. Puzzling, at least to me.