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Old 11-05-2007, 09:47 PM   #15
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I have seen that picture a few times. As for towing with the front wheel drive Toronado or the Cadillac front wheel drive of the same era I heard it isn't as smooth (all 4 wheels on the ground) as a rear wheel drive. I can't remember the explanation to why but I would believe if the WDH was set up correctly it should not make a difference. Hopefully the Forum member who tows with his Cadillac El Dorado convertible with front wheel drive sees this thread and describes his experience.
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Old 11-05-2007, 09:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john hd
i had one when i was a kid, you sure could pack alot of your friends in!

went through the snow like a bull dozer too!


john
John,

That is so funny, I had a'72 Eldorado (500cid) that I put in the snow one night, it took 2 tow trucks to get her out. Both thrucks had to use the cable because neither one could even get close to where I was in the snow.
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Old 11-05-2007, 10:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV
... I assume the same setup would be possible with a modern front drive TV, a Bambi...
that would be the honda ridgeline today....

i've got a friend that collects toro-nados...

he currently has 35 or 36 of them in his 'barn...

and they all run!

as i recall, the classic gmc moho was fwd and built on the 455 toronado chassis...

don't drive in the wet grass with one!

cheers
2air'
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Old 11-05-2007, 10:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
that would be the honda ridgeline today....

i've got a friend that collects toronados...

he currently has 35 or 36 of them in his 'barn...

as i recall, the classic gmc moho was fwd and built on the 455 tornado chassis...

don't drive in the wet grass with one!

cheers
2air'
You are right 2'air

The GMC's are FWD, 455 Olds engines and transmissions, and driving on wet grass or the like is a real challenge. Beautiful period pieces, very futuristic, and a surprisingly high rate of them are still around. I believe they made them from 73 to 78 and out of 12,000 or 13,000 there's something like 9,000 still known to exist. As enthusiastic a bunch of owners there as we have with our bullets.

We have friends who have completely redone one (mega bucks) and we were looking at one ourselves until we realized that with the size of the MoHo, the FWD, and the air bag suspension, they are really limited in terms of towing a toad of any size usable.

Your friend has quite a stable of Toronados. Holy smokes, they are starting to climb in value as collectors realize they are pretty neat old cars. There is a black one we see at the occasional car show here that is I believe a '66 and it is in better than brand new condition. Original owner and family bring it out and the whole family appears to be involved in keeping it clean and the kids from hanging off the doors to look inside.
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Old 11-05-2007, 10:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman

as i recall, the classic gmc moho was fwd and built on the 455 toronado chassis...

don't drive in the wet grass with one!

cheers
2air'
But I understand they do great donuts on grass, as long as you do them in reverse

I keep having a visual of a Ridgeline and a bambi with the bars SOOO tight, the rear of the Honda is airborne
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:06 PM   #20
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The salesman where we bought our Safari told us the Toronado story saying it proved the WD hitch transferred all but 100 lbs of the tongue weight to the trailer axles. My first thought was the '85 Toronado I inherited in '95 when my father died. One of the all time worst cars I've ever owned (a '72 Jeep CJ5 also in running and too many more). Later, after getting over the expensive Toronado memory, I thought "what did the story prove?" I can't see how it proves anything about shifting weight, but it does show it was a pretty strong hitch assembly. I'm not sure what is says about the salesman. I'd like to see that Toronado go around one of those left turns that are about 120˚—wouldn't the right rear brake drum scrape the ground?
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:44 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
The salesman where we bought our Safari told us the Toronado story...
is that the same salesman that told you they burn off the clearcoat and polish them with pledge?

it appears some sales positions require a vivid imagination!

clearly NOT a graduate for wally school! w)

hey a new emoticon!!!!!!!



cheers
2air'
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:35 PM   #22
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The first generation Toronado (1966-1976) was a quite different vehicle than the later ones with that name.
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Old 11-11-2007, 10:31 PM   #23
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First Generation Olds Tornado/Cadillac Eldorado as TV

According to the owner's and service manuals for my '75 Eldorado Convertible, the factory rated the cars for up to 6,000 pounds of trailer with the proper weight distributing hitch and trailer brakes. I have towed both my '64 Overlander (6,100 pounds loaded for am extended vacation) and my '78 Minuet (3,100 pounds loaded for an extended vacation).

The power and stability of the combination is among the best of my tow vehicle setups, but hitch setup and adjustment is critical with the Overlander. My first trip with the Overlander included towing in a constant light rain for over 200 miles -- the problem with hitch adjustment showed up at my first fuel stop -- stop sign on exit ramp on a recently oiled and chipped incline across a busy county highway to station -- the weight distribution bars weren't tight enough and the front wheels just wanted to spin on the loose gravel (the young gas station attendant couldn't figure out why my front wheels were spinning -- he had never realized the old full-sized Toronado/Eldorados were front wheel drive).

Age, however, hasn't been kind to one of the components that is critical to good highway performance. The original steel wheels are quite prone to being bent from "curbing" and other similar events -- finding a set of wheels that are true and can be successfully balanced is a true feat -- my best six wheels have been at a specialty wheel shop undergoing straightening and restoration -- but likely will not be entirely up to OEM standards even after the best of restoration efforts. The wheel offset is quite unusual and was common only to the 1966 to 1978 Eldorado and Tornado -- aftermarket wheels disappeared at about the same time that GM discontinued the OEM wheels in the replacement market -- some (Boyd Coddington, etc.) will make a near match in custom aftermarket, but my experience was that the wheel was too wide to successfully interact with the wheelwells when towing (they are acceptable when uladen).

I am in hopes that the restored wheels are true enough to tow to Bozeman this summer. I don't know yet whether I am going to plan on the Overlander or Minuet -- I suspect the Minuet due to the Mountainous terrain. I have managed to locate a set of chrome tri-point center cap spinners and a set of stainless steel trim rings that will be used rather than the original wheelcovers that have a nasty habbit of departing the car when crossing any of the numerous bridge replacement construction zones along IL interstates.

I wouldn't purposely go out and purchase one of these early model Tornado/Eldorados for towing -- they are exceptionally expensive to outfit for towing as the standard radiators were marginal for the car itself, and with the later (1974-78) models the final drive ratio was a 2.70 with no options offered -- it is possible to upgrade to the older 3.07 final drive ratio, but the cost in refurbished/rebuilt parts exceeds $2,000 with labor added on top of that (the estimate for labor on my car was $1,800 for the upgrade). Add to that the great difficulty of finding and maintaining a set of true wheels -- they just are not particularly great tow vehicles. I owned my Eldorado prior to purchasing my Overlander -- had I known that I would be calling on the car to tow in the future, I would have held out for a 1970 DeVille Convertible.

I have a number of Airstream and Argosy publicity photos (in owner's manuals and sales literature) showing a 1968 Cadillac Eldorado towing an Airstream. The later Argosy photo appears to be a 1970 or 1971 Edlorado towing either a 26 or 28 foot Argosy.

Kevin
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:12 PM   #24
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Different and much better salesman, 2 air. I'll put the Pledge on tomorrow. So much easier than that nasty old Turtle wax and all that polishing.

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Old 11-14-2007, 09:06 PM   #25
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Curious as to why the Tornado and FWD motorhomes built on that platform would be bad on wet grass? I would have expected that with weight over the drive wheels they be far superior to rear wheel drive cars of the same era. -Bernie
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Old 11-14-2007, 09:30 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhayden
Curious as to why the Tornado and FWD motorhomes built on that platform would be bad on wet grass? I would have expected that with weight over the drive wheels they be far superior to rear wheel drive cars of the same era. -Bernie
I know several folks either with or who had GMC MoHo's with the FWD and although they were gorgeous to look at and very furturistic for their time (why - they looked a LOT like Airstream MoHo's, what a coincidence) they are a bugger when parked on wet grass or on icy roads. I'd of thought they would be good with the engine over the drive line as well but they tell me differently. I hadn't thought to ask why but now I have the topic for discussion the next time we are sitting around the campfire (that will be spring - it's cccccold here).
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Old 11-14-2007, 09:53 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by bhayden
Curious as to why the Tornado and FWD motorhomes built on that platform would be bad on wet grass? I would have expected that with weight over the drive wheels they be far superior to rear wheel drive cars of the same era. -Bernie
these cars had 350+ hp...

and did fine as a car (well maybe a little torque steering)...

keep in mind the radial tires for these big beasts in that era were great for comfort but crap for steering, traction and braking.

seldom did folks uses real snow tires or chains on the mafia nosed luxomobiles...

the gms mohos have most of the weight BEHIND the drive line...

in fact way back over the dually tires...

so they were relatively light up front, over the olds traction avant!

cheers
2air'
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Old 11-15-2007, 01:11 AM   #28
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Wet Willy

Up to 1978 Eldorados have equal length axle shafts = zero torque steer

GMC motorhome weight layout
Front GVWR = 4200lbs (two tires)
Rear GVWR = 7500lbs (four tires)
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