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2airishuman · 11-07-2007, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

The salesman where we bought our Safari told us the Toronado story...

is that the same salesman that told you they burn off the clearcoat and polish them with pledge?

it appears some sales positions require a vivid imagination!

clearly NOT a graduate for wally school! w)

hey a new emoticon!!!!!!!

cheers
2air'

slowmover · 11-09-2007, 06:35 PM

The first generation Toronado (1966-1976) was a quite different vehicle than the later ones with that name.

overlander64 · 11-11-2007, 09:31 PM

According to the owner's and service manuals for my '75 Eldorado Convertible, the factory rated the cars for up to 6,000 pounds of trailer with the proper weight distributing hitch and trailer brakes. I have towed both my '64 Overlander (6,100 pounds loaded for am extended vacation) and my '78 Minuet (3,100 pounds loaded for an extended vacation).

The power and stability of the combination is among the best of my tow vehicle setups, but hitch setup and adjustment is critical with the Overlander. My first trip with the Overlander included towing in a constant light rain for over 200 miles -- the problem with hitch adjustment showed up at my first fuel stop -- stop sign on exit ramp on a recently oiled and chipped incline across a busy county highway to station -- the weight distribution bars weren't tight enough and the front wheels just wanted to spin on the loose gravel (the young gas station attendant couldn't figure out why my front wheels were spinning -- he had never realized the old full-sized Toronado/Eldorados were front wheel drive).

Age, however, hasn't been kind to one of the components that is critical to good highway performance. The original steel wheels are quite prone to being bent from "curbing" and other similar events -- finding a set of wheels that are true and can be successfully balanced is a true feat -- my best six wheels have been at a specialty wheel shop undergoing straightening and restoration -- but likely will not be entirely up to OEM standards even after the best of restoration efforts. The wheel offset is quite unusual and was common only to the 1966 to 1978 Eldorado and Tornado -- aftermarket wheels disappeared at about the same time that GM discontinued the OEM wheels in the replacement market -- some (Boyd Coddington, etc.) will make a near match in custom aftermarket, but my experience was that the wheel was too wide to successfully interact with the wheelwells when towing (they are acceptable when uladen).

I am in hopes that the restored wheels are true enough to tow to Bozeman this summer. I don't know yet whether I am going to plan on the Overlander or Minuet -- I suspect the Minuet due to the Mountainous terrain. I have managed to locate a set of chrome tri-point center cap spinners and a set of stainless steel trim rings that will be used rather than the original wheelcovers that have a nasty habbit of departing the car when crossing any of the numerous bridge replacement construction zones along IL interstates.

I wouldn't purposely go out and purchase one of these early model Tornado/Eldorados for towing -- they are exceptionally expensive to outfit for towing as the standard radiators were marginal for the car itself, and with the later (1974-78) models the final drive ratio was a 2.70 with no options offered -- it is possible to upgrade to the older 3.07 final drive ratio, but the cost in refurbished/rebuilt parts exceeds $2,000 with labor added on top of that (the estimate for labor on my car was $1,800 for the upgrade). Add to that the great difficulty of finding and maintaining a set of true wheels -- they just are not particularly great tow vehicles. I owned my Eldorado prior to purchasing my Overlander -- had I known that I would be calling on the car to tow in the future, I would have held out for a 1970 DeVille Convertible.

I have a number of Airstream and Argosy publicity photos (in owner's manuals and sales literature) showing a 1968 Cadillac Eldorado towing an Airstream. The later Argosy photo appears to be a 1970 or 1971 Edlorado towing either a 26 or 28 foot Argosy.

Kevin

Gene · 11-14-2007, 07:12 PM

Different and much better salesman, 2 air. I'll put the Pledge on tomorrow. So much easier than that nasty old Turtle wax and all that polishing.

Gene

bhayden · 11-14-2007, 08:06 PM

Curious as to why the Tornado and FWD motorhomes built on that platform would be bad on wet grass? I would have expected that with weight over the drive wheels they be far superior to rear wheel drive cars of the same era. -Bernie

safari57 · 11-14-2007, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhayden

Curious as to why the Tornado and FWD motorhomes built on that platform would be bad on wet grass? I would have expected that with weight over the drive wheels they be far superior to rear wheel drive cars of the same era. -Bernie

I know several folks either with or who had GMC MoHo's with the FWD and although they were gorgeous to look at and very furturistic for their time (why - they looked a LOT like Airstream MoHo's, what a coincidence) they are a bugger when parked on wet grass or on icy roads. I'd of thought they would be good with the engine over the drive line as well but they tell me differently. I hadn't thought to ask why but now I have the topic for discussion the next time we are sitting around the campfire (that will be spring - it's cccccold here).
Barry

2airishuman · 11-14-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhayden

Curious as to why the Tornado and FWD motorhomes built on that platform would be bad on wet grass? I would have expected that with weight over the drive wheels they be far superior to rear wheel drive cars of the same era. -Bernie

these cars had 350+ hp...

and did fine as a car (well maybe a little torque steering)...

keep in mind the radial tires for these big beasts in that era were great for comfort but crap for steering, traction and braking.

seldom did folks uses real snow tires or chains on the mafia nosed luxomobiles...

the gms mohos have most of the weight BEHIND the drive line...

in fact way back over the dually tires...

so they were relatively light up front, over the olds traction avant!

cheers
2air'

klattu · 11-15-2007, 12:11 AM

Up to 1978 Eldorados have equal length axle shafts = zero torque steer

GMC motorhome weight layout
Front GVWR = 4200lbs (two tires)
Rear GVWR = 7500lbs (four tires)

safari57 · 11-15-2007, 09:33 AM

Ahh! I had not realized the weight distribution on the GMC's MoHo's was distributed as it is. Thanks for the info.

Barry

2airishuman · 11-15-2007, 11:25 AM

yea the rears are tandem not dually

i don't wanna get the whole...

'what is torque steering and what causes it'

debate going...

certainly equal length half shaft axles will reduce it significantly,

but t.s. is more about tires/contact patch/steering angles and stuff...

so with so much hp/torque and fwd and funcky side wall treads...

t.s. (quiver) oscillation still happens, as weight shifts and grip changes.

willy

2air'

also static loads change with acceleration,

so that weight over the axles shifts rearward in dynamic situations...

pulling the wagon up hill vs pushing, and all that blah, blah...

klattu · 11-16-2007, 03:16 AM

Heres a couple of links about the GMC.
Lots of good facts so no need to use imagination.

Reading into topics, some change the Olds for a 500 Caddy.
And the prototypes used stock Toro/Eldo rims and quickly tore them apart.
Interesting that the designer insisted on curved sides, when he saw the first few coming down the line with flat sides he halted production, went straight to management and you see today that none are flat.

GMC Motorhome FAQ

GMC Motorhomes - Cruising America

Gene · 06-07-2008, 11:27 AM

Check this out. The answer to all TV issues, a custom A/S MOHO.

http://www.rvtravel.com/blog/weirdrv...er2-710204.jpg

Gene

Fyrzowt · 06-07-2008, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Check this out. The answer to all TV issues, a custom A/S MOHO.

http://www.rvtravel.com/blog/weirdrv...er2-710204.jpg

Gene

Two words...Butt ugly.

Journalist · 06-08-2008, 01:40 AM

The old GMC mohos were a cool idea, and actually share a lot of Airstream design cues. The low floor, semi-rounded shape, and front end profile are all similar to an AS. I've been involved in a complete drivetrain rebuild on one, and the Toronado drivetrain was actually its fatal flaw. The Toronado wheel bearing setup doesn't handle the weight of the big moho very well, and they wear out quickly. It's also absolutely miserable to drive in low traction situations. However, on dry pavement, the low center of gravity makes it handle more like a full-size van than a motor home. The ride from the airbag rear suspension is also smooth as silk. It's unfortunate that GM killed it off after the first generation were built. Would be interesting to see where the engineers would have taken it after working out the known problems that they had.