Toyota Tundra as a Tow Vehicle

[Ladylongwing]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

...

You went from Montana to NM and didn't tour Colorado? You must have saved the best for another trip.

Gene

What a wonderful and patient explanation! Especially since I just now went back to the beginning and realize you have basically said the same thing before. Thank you for not embarassing me by ordering me to do my homework first! I often have a slow and iffy internet connection and get impatient waiting for pages to load.

At any rate, I think there are commercial scales on Interstate 81 north of Winchester, VA which is about an hour from here, so that will be on my "to do" list. I pretty much stuffed the vehicles and took off on my maiden voyage last year, and am thankful I had enough beef in the truck to take me some places in SE Montana I'm pretty sure no Airstream has been before. (Go slow and pray a lot).

I already have added two extra CO digital readout monitors inside the Bambi (very paranoid) and turn the propane off whenever I can. It's the extra cleanable ventilated and temp controlled room that appeals to me. However, I'm not anxious to pull 34' in order to do that. The weight back there would be minimal. I'll have to do a lot more research before I know whether it's safe, but for traveling probably not. For "staying a while" is what attracted my interest.

I used to live in Colorado (east and west slope) and did visit friends near La Junta on my last trip. I was trying to outrun blizzards so I just kept moving south. It's still my favorite state, but it had a lot less people when I lived there.

Thanks again!

Anne in VA

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Ladylongwing

Especially since I just now went back to the beginning and realize you have basically said the same thing before.

Anne in VA

As a retired lawyer, I have to say everything 3 times. And, it's best to repeat things because of my nature. Professionally required is redundancy.

Gene

[Randjg1]

This thread has been great as i find myself shopping for a new tow vehicle. We are considering moving from a 19ft bambi to a 25 or 27FB, as such needing to upgrade the tow vehicle. Ive never owned a pick up and didnt really relish the thought. But yesterday we drove the Tundra crew cab. Wow was great. Then went down the road and drove an F150 Lariat pkg. Really nice too. Im leaning toward the Tundra. I watched the videos last night on fords site that shows the comparison tests. What i take out of that is that they built comparisons where the box frame and such would show best. I really do not ever plan to drive at speed down a dried out creek bed. I just want a really nice driving experience. Capable towing. and yep luxury cab. Love the bells and whistles: reverse camera, parking sonar, navi, leather. Will probably come down to some emotional deciding factor, looks, feel. The dealership experience at toyota was far superior however they want to play the game with the price. The ford place felt like a county fair and not in a good way. But they had the heres out lowest price approach which looked darn nice. I was planning on checking out the Titan today but news that Nissan Trucks may be phased out or shifted elsewhere bothers me a bit. My friend had bad experience with dodge and im not loving the look anyway so taking a pass there. Chevy and GMC etc just have no appeal to me. Anyone else shopped between F150 and Tundra and made a choice recently? It really appears that they are both nice and capable. I welcome any more pros and cons, thanks.

[Gene]

Randjg1, check out Edmunds on the internet for wholesale prices for the trucks and all the accessories. It can be confusing to sort out all the info, but take the time. Things like "holdbacks" are dealer profit and they hate to give that up, but I got a guy to split it with me. Bring print outs and a calculator with you because you'll end up buying accessories you didn't want, but the deal may be worth it. Toyota loads a lot of stuff on their vehicles and its hard to find a truck without more things than you thought you wanted. They like to argue and will respect you if you stand up to them. When a salesman asks you "how much profit do you want me to make?", just say "that's not my problem, it's yours" and offer an even lower price. Demand the dealer invoice. The ones from Toyota have holdbacks, advertising fees and the like on those invoices and you can see a lot of info that is not easy to get. Don't let them try to negotiate a trade in and new truck together—too many ways to get confused. Just tell them you'll probably sell your vehicle yourself and we'll talk about a trade later. You can get used car prices on the internet too. It's a pain to sell your own vehicle but you can make a $1,000 more or even more that way. When I bought my Tundra, the guy wanted my older Tundra so badly he gave me a premium on it, so I figure I lost about $400 and didn't have to sell it myself, a fair trade off.

You can get information about reliability from Consumer Reports as well as wholesale prices. Edmunds is free; Consumers charges something like $10 or $15 for a report online. You can go to the library to look at the magazine for reliability ratings. My Tundra has 18,000 miles and only one problem—a switch that wouldn't work.

You seem to prefer the Tundra (I am biased here) and you will have to live with it for some years, so consider that.

I tow a 25' with a Tundra without any problems. Some people tow a 27' with one, but we thought that towing a 27' was a little much for a Tundra. The trailer will be with you for a lot longer than a truck, so pick the trailer first. If you go with the 27', consider a 3/4 ton truck. Toyota doesn't make a 3/4 ton, so your choices will be smaller.

So far as Nissan goes, the situation there seems quite difficult to know. There was a report the Titan was being discontinued and Nissan would rebadge Dodges as Nissans. But is Dodge going to survive?

Gene

[Randjg1]

Gene
Great info thank you. Yes im thinking it's time to settle in on chasing a tundra. Its the one we preferred without thinking about it too much. I talk to the wife about it tonight and she preferred it hands down. Thats worth something. Ha. I see a lot of folks here are hauling 25's and 27's with the tundra. I hear you perhaps we really need to decide on the trailer first. I was thinking must have a 27 but now the 25 is looking just as good really. And if it keeps me out of a 3/4 all the better. This vehicle will be towing maybe 4 times a year otherwise its my go to work and back vehicle so i really dont want a honkin 3/4. We've never had a truck before and this one felt suv enough that we really liked it. I did a print out from edmunds its not super detailed. I need to figure out if the off road package adds andthing to the towing capability otherwise im not going to need that. Thanks for all the input.
Randy

[Gene]

Randy, you want to the TRD (off road) package because it includes a more beefy suspension (in 2007 anyway). The towing package is standard on most if not all Tundras. Go back to Edmunds—maybe you missed something. It takes a while to find everything on the website. And check Consumer Reports—when you're buying a $30,000 vehicle, it pays to spend a few bucks on info. There should be plenty of '08's around and if you keep it for many years, depreciation on buying last year's truck doesn't matter. There's always somebody looking for a 5-10 year old Toyota when it's time to sell.

We find the Tundra comfortable. You will feel more road bumps with a pickup, but that's because they have the suspension you need. If you buy the Limited, the leather seats may be more comfy than the cloth ones. We are trying out various extra cushions for the cloth seats for long trips—they aren't that comfy for old butts. It, like any full size pickup, is big. Parking is not always easy and the sonar helps you not crush cars, hit walls and run over granny when backing. But the truck handles well, has enormous power and uses a lot of gas. If you like to change your own oil and filter, this truck is the most difficult I have ever had; if I weren't so stubborn, I'd have the dealer do it. Like any truck, it has some things I don't like, more that I do. The hardest thing it has to do is tow the trailer, so that's what it was bought for. Last winter I did drag a Tacoma about 150 feet through 1 1/2 feet of snow when it slid off my driveway, so it's a tough truck.

I thought about getting a silver one to match the Airstream, but the blue one had the stuff we wanted and it was time for a blue truck.

I understand the 25' or 27' problem. We went back and forth between the two models, checking out everything. I'd rather have the 27', but the 25' was so much more practical for us. The double sink in the 25' '08 Safaris was important—much easier to wash dishes. We found a collapsible drying rack that fits in the second sink perfectly and it lives there. It's good for leaving bananas in while we travel because they don't get bruised. The 27' had the single round sink that is stylish, but that's all. I don't know if the FC kitchen sink is the same.

Gene

[78GussyTX]

"I tow a 25' with a Tundra without any problems. Some people tow a 27' with one,
but we thought that towing a 27' was a little much for a Tundra. "

I'm still curious to know why any of you would feel that a Tundra with a 5.7 V8 and tow package, which is 389 horsepower and a tow capacity of 10,800# plus payload is not enough to tow just about anything? We tow our 27 ft with no trouble at all. What other vehicles would you be considering, and what are it's capacities?

[SRW]

I have been towing a 28 Ft. International with my 2007 Tundra, 5.7L, 2x4, Crew Cab Limited, and I love the truck. It is our only vehicle, and has the TRD Off Road package. I had a TRD cold air intake installed by the dealer, and I get a true (calculated)18.5 mpg with a mix of city and highway driving.

IMHO the Tundra does a fine job towing, and I recommend it to anyone having a similar Airstream. Its got the wheelbase, the HP, and the torque, but it is not a diesel.

On the two to Bozeman last year (boy does time fly) the Tundra's 6 speed auto shifted down while going up some grades while the diesels I was caravaning with never ever did. They also got better mpg when towing, but not enough to make up for the difference in the cost of fuel.

The Tundra has 30,000 miles on the odometer, and has never been to the dealer other then for an oil change and other scheduled service.

SRW

[Gene]

78GussyTX,

The reason I don't think a Tundra is best for a trailer longer than 25' is payload. While it varies depending on the model, payload is around 1,500 lbs for 4WD double or crew cab versions. If you follow the 80% recommendation, then you've got 1,200 lbs. Then start adding in driver and one passenger, all the stuff that accumulates in the beds and on the back seat and the tongue weight, it's very tight. I think it's easy to underestimate what will end up in the truck bed as it is the place to stick things you just don't know what to do with. The large area behind the front seats in the truck also seems to attract items.

The tongue wt. as stated by Airstream doesn't include the propane or the spare tire. The WD hitch distributes about 1/3 of tongue wt. back to the trailer axles, so that's good. Any accessories on the Tundra also count against payload—running boards for ex. When I figured it out for our double cab with running boards and a hard tonneau for our Safari, I was at around 90%. For a 27', I think it would be 100% or maybe a bit more. I never added in the wt. of the WD hitch which must be about 40 or 50 lbs. for an Equalizer.

Toyota does include coolant and maybe gas before stating payload. I don't remember which or both, but I did know the numbers when I figured this out. It can be hard to find all the info. in the owner's manual, but it's there or maybe on the company website if you look hard enough.

I know lots of Tundra owners tow 27' and longer newer trailers and report no problems. I suspect the truck will wear faster, but that won't be felt for many miles. If Toyota made a 3/4 ton Tundra I might have bought that instead.

When I brought the new Tundra home, I looked underneath and compared to the '02 I had before, it looked like twice the truck in the size of the driveline, rear differential and brakes. But the springs didn't look much different and I have no idea what the wheel bearings are like. I don't know what stresses the transmission will take. If you read OhScottyOh's posts earlier he has added to his suspension and so far it rides well. Whether it's enough to beef up the suspension to a 1/2+ ton truck, I don't (and I don't think he does either—it's an experiment) know. Not being an engineer, all I can say is that the payload ratings are the weak point of the Tundra. It's got plenty of power and torque and handles well while towing. In my experience, Toyotas can take a lot, but some day something will fail and it will be very expensive. We've treated our Toyotas pretty well so nothing serious has ever failed.

If you don't put anything in the truck except yourself (leave spouse, kids and dogs home or fedex them to the destination), there's enough payload for longer than 25' trailers. That's not realistic. In the truck, I sometimes bring 5 or 10 gallons of gas, a generator, the Airstream spare (easier to make sure it has enough air in it), tools (very heavy tools), tour books and maps, campgrounds books, other reading matter, extra food, collapsible table, director's type chairs, extra clothing, extra water, CD's, 12v air pump, sewer stuff, 2 potable water hoses, tow chain, emergency triangles, jack for trailer, big flashlight, and one very important wife. There are always more things that come along. For an extra extra long trip, add even more and possibly a second spare trailer tire. Since this stuff keeps growing, I may have used up all the payload by now.

All the numbers for the Tundra except payload show great capacity for towing. Maybe it was designed to make it easy to eventually come out with a 3/4 ton without changing much. Maybe it's a 5/8 ton.

I've noticed people report higher gas mileage for Tundras when they live close to sea level. This is the price I pay for living at 6,800', but I do get to look down on Texas. The 6 speed transmission has two overdrive gears—5th and 6th—to try to squeeze out a little better gas mileage on that massive engine. I'm not sure it ever goes into 6th in tow/haul except while going down a long grade. With 2 overdrive gears, it downshifts a lot on even small up grades and that's the way it's designed.

SRW, I don't know what the "TRD cold air intake" is. Wouldn't it come with the TRD package? Did you compare mpg before and after? I did install the K&N air filter and they seem to increase mileage slightly and are cheaper in the long run because they last longer than the vehicle.

Gene

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

78GussyTX,

The reason I don't think a Tundra is best for a trailer longer than 25' is payload.

So as long as the payload weights are respected and the hitch connection and overall set up is optimal then the Tundra should have some respectable capabilities as far as towing the longer Airstreams.

[Randjg1]

Hey Gene
I did end up printing out loads of stuff on the truck last night and sifted through it today. Found dealer costs on everything as well has dealer hold back on the invoice. So i think i pretty confidently go in and say here's the price if you make zero and heres the price you quoted me where you make over 5K. Then i'll see how hungry they are. Im worried they wont be that starved. They only have like 3 at this dealership but they own a couple so can pull from another place. 4500 factory cash back ends like tomorrow or wed I think. So i plan to go in tomorrow night and try and make it happen. The TRD wasnt listed on this one. I thought I heard elsewhere that TRD lowered the tow capacity actually? But then i did read it gives you the bilstein shocks. Yep I am going for the leather of the limited crew cab. A super nice vehicle and now that ive sort of decided on it i see a whole lot of airstreamers use it. And yes for both 25 and 27 and while 27 maybe be stretching it the people pulling the 27's arent complaining that ive seen. Anyway that decision is a year off maybe so i will try and swing the truck for now. Since my heavy towing is like a year or more off I wonder if i can add the heavier shocks and other beefed up towing helpers later. Im already nickle and diming by dumping the bed mat and so on.
Anyway I appreciate the renewed discussion it all helps. Thanks folks
R

[Gene]

R, any dealer should be able to get a specific vehicle from hundreds of miles away, though they may want you to pay a couple of hundred bucks to bring it to their dealership. Everything is on the computer and dealers trade vehicles back and forth all the time to make a sale. Of course, they'd rather get rid of one on their own lot, but most of all they want to make anything they can.

If they want $5K profit, maybe you'd better go elsewhere. You can contact other dealers by e-mail, tell them exactly what you want and ask for a bid and let them know you are looking throughout the state. They should be really happy right now with $500 profit over adv. and dealer prep, maybe less if they have to get rid of the vehicle because they have to renew their loan on it. I've bought through AAA also and they do pretty well and there's no dealer prep that way. I like negotiating with a sales manager—to me it's fun, but not everyone enjoys it. My wife just goes and reads a book in the showroom while we act like predators. Usually just before we physically attack each other, a deal can be made. It's a nasty business at a lot of dealerships. Sometimes walking out helps ("excuse me, I have to make a call") and then pretend to be talking to another dealer on a cell phone and come back with a lower offer.

Rebates are usually monthly, but at this time of year they will probably be renewed, but that's something you can't usually find out ahead of time. The dealers claim they don't know either until the last moment.

They make their money on financing, extended warranties (I never buy one) and service. Any thing on a sale is extra.

Gene

[b3Talent]

I just completed a 12 day 1500 mile trip and the only problem I had was some idiot in the left turn only lane decided to go straight while I was turning left from the center turn lane and he smacked my front DS fender. Luckily I was able to continue my trip without additional interuptions. Once again, my Tundra Crewmax handled great while towing my 34' Classic Also, to anyone buying a Tundra, I got mine brand new for less than $26k, it was listed at $38k! Play hard ball.

[Ladylongwing]

" Once again, my Tundra Crewmax handled great while towing my 34' Classic Also, to anyone buying a Tundra, I got mine brand new for less than $26k, it was listed at $38k! Play hard ball."

I paid about 27k for mine down from a list of about 38k, which was pretty good for a beginner.

When I bought my 07 SR5 4wd DC in Sept. of 07, it was my first new truck purchase ever, I am a widowed little old lady (and I know something about predatory salesmen). I had specific things I wanted that the local dealer did not have on the lot. I shopped around. I used the Internet and read all i could stand on Edmunds. I met a salesman in a nearby town about 30 min. before closing on the day his rebate ended, and saw the twitch and beads of sweat. I liked the truck, but walked away. I think he almost fainted. I felt badly because it was the end of the month and he was trying to make quota, but I also felt cornered.

I accumulated several internet quotes and went back to my local dealer. I had prices and specs in mind. I wish now I'd sprung for the Limited package, but I was trying to save money, and knew I'd trash the leather sooner or later anyway with all my photo equipment and critters. I told him I was driving to another town to get this particular truck unless he could get it for me at the same price. Three days later he had one he'd gotten from a dealer about 2 hrs from here. In silver. Which in my only fashion nod, I wanted. I did most of my negotiation by email or phone, and only went into the dealership twice: once to look at their stock, and once to sign the sales receipt.

Basically the truck is a beefed-up work truck. No fancy GPS or parking wizard but I did add satellite radio and LoJack. (Warning, if you use fast food drive-through's, beware of tight corners). No extended warranties, and their service department has a reputation so I drive elsewhere to a different Toyota dealer for service. My regular independent mechanic, who has kept my prior vehicles going for well over 250k, took one look at the Tundra and begged me to take it to a dealer. He just wasn't set up for the size or weight.

I pulled the 19' Bambi by myself (in the fall and early winter) from VA to CO, to MT, back through WY and CO and all over NM. Then to south TX, LA and up the back door into VA. I have no doubt it was overloaded, but it gave me great confidence. Especially on the off-road two-tracks I encountered. Have you ever put one of those things in granny gear? Holy Cow. It's a frightening sound.

Got stuck in the mud once, back here on my property, trying to drag the Airstream out of it's winter resting place. The incredible sinking axle. A couple of boards, some rocking, and I was free. Couldn't have done that with a Tacoma, which I often wondered if I should have bought. Next to the Tundra I look like a midget and I need a small step ladder to get into the back cab.

My issue with the Tundra is that the tailgate is too big to drop completlely when I have the Bambi hitched up. Something I never would have thought about. It was hugely inconvenient on the long trip, and is one of the main reasons I'll trade up to a bigger Airstream with a different hitch someday. That and just a little more living and storage space for my gear. But I'll probably keep the Tundra.

Anne in VA

[Gene]

Anne, I'd have you do my negotiating for me if I didn't like it so much. The difference in price between you and b3 may be the rebate. I can't really remember what I paid—somewhere between 29 and 30 perhaps, but the rebate was only $1,000 then. If they are $4,500 now I would have gotten it for that much less now (this hurts). Now they are much, much larger. I think holdbacks were 500-650 and there was an advertising fee of several hundred. I suggested that I wasn't there because of advertising, but that didn't work. He knew I wasn't financing, buying any warranties and wouldn't drive and extra 30 miles for service (what service anyway?—there's hardly any and I can do it myself). He made some profit on part of the holdback and the trade and he got rid of an '07 at the end of Sept.

Unfortunately big rebates reduce the resale value for everyone for a while. Of course, I'm not selling mine, though if I did, I could buy a new one and drive that sales manager crazy again. Now he just hands me the real invoice when I walk in and we get along fine. Barb, can I have a new truck? How 'bout silver this time?

You guys are doing well on your negotiating.

Whether the tailgate drops or not is a function of two things—(#1) the WD hitch. I have Equalizer and it just fits unless (#2 thing) the truck is at an angle to the trailer. What kind of hitch do you have?

Gene

[78GussyTX]

Hi all, and thanks Gene for your detailed response a few days ago. You just left me with one remaining question, and that was, for all the talk of whether or not Tundra is a good TV, what is out there that is better? And what are the capacities? I did check mine, it is 1680 payload (after full tank), and 1,800 towing capacity. Pretty darn good? I weigh about 330 lbs and my wife weighs about 30 lbs. At least that's the only way she allows me to mention her weight. Kids are 9 and under, 150 maybe? Couple of little lap dogs, sometimes one or two power wheels, and off we go.
So do tell me what other truck capacities there are, I don't thnk I need one but good to know.

[78GussyTX]

Oh and I guess I'm the only 2008 Tundra guy that does not know how much he paid. Or yeah I do -- I paid $474 last month, and same the month before.
See mine is on lease, so at the end of 4 years I throw them the keys and say "thanks now get me a new one". I guess that comes to about $22700 in 4 years, and then I can buy it at depreciated price or tell them to give me a new one.

[Gene]

I'm not the person to know if there is anything better. We started buying Toyotas 10 years ago when they finally got the ergonomics right. I am sick of fixing motor vehicles after the warranty runs out and hate to pay someone to do it, so we went for reliability. With computers everywhere I probably couldn't fix them anyway.

When we decided to buy an Airstream, we knew we would buy a new Tundra pretty quickly and that it probably wasn't the truck to tow anything more than a 25. So, against all recommendations, we bought the truck first. If reliability is an issue for you, so far as I can see Toyota makes the most reliable trucks. That made the decision easy. I don't want to be in some remote place, or 4,000 miles from home and have a break down. Been there, done that.


30 lb. wife, hmmm. Sounds like a younger version of Lolita.

Gene

[Ladylongwing]

[quote=CrawfordGene;653627]Anne, I'd have you do my negotiating for me if I didn't like it so much."

Actually I hate it. But I'd already been worked over enough by recent events so i was girded for battle. Or was it girdled? Anyway, the truck salesmen took the brunt of it. Although they won in the end, as I did buy a truck, and a few extras, and we both felt we got the better deal.

"The difference in price between you and b3 may be the rebate. I can't really remember what I paid—somewhere between 29 and 30 perhaps, but the rebate was only $1,000 then. If they are $4,500 now I would have gotten it for that much less now (this hurts). Now they are much, much larger. I think holdbacks were 500-650 and there was an advertising fee of several hundred. I suggested that I wasn't there because of advertising, but that didn't work. He knew I wasn't financing, buying any warranties and wouldn't drive and extra 30 miles for service (what service anyway?—there's hardly any and I can do it myself). He made some profit on part of the holdback and the trade and he got rid of an '07 at the end of Sept. "

This year appears to be the year to buy vehicles, if you have the cash. Maybe had I waited I could have had both a silver and a green for the price of one. Always nice to have a spare.

"Whether the tailgate drops or not is a function of two things—(#1) the WD hitch. I have Equalizer and it just fits unless (#2 thing) the truck is at an angle to the trailer. What kind of hitch do you have?"

The trailer came with a hitch so I just kept it. It's a Husky 70340 WD hitch with a tongue wt of 801-1200 lbs (not sure why it's 801 and not 800), and a max gross trailer wt. of 12,000lbs. I have one anti-sway bar attached. Since I bought it from a private seller and this was my first foray into trailer camping, I probably focused more on price and condition than compatibility. Anyway, it's held up well and will make someone else a happy camper when I decide to get something larger.

I asked both the nearest Airstream dealer and the Toyota dealer if there was anything I could do to make this system work better, and neither had an answer, other than investing in a Hensley, which is more hitch and money than I need right now. For the upgrade it would be helpful, and I hope I can negotiate a package deal. I sure would appreciate you or others in this thread doing the bargaining for me when that happens. I am only an intermittent haggler.

Thanks so much for your great and detailed replys! I have learned so much from these discussions.

Anne in VA

[Gene]

Anne, I don't know what the street price of the Equalizer is, but I do know it fits. You can set it up yourself and then you'll know how it works and how to adjust it, something I have yet to learn. I know I need to adjust the space where the washers go. I didn't find the instructions all that clear, but I probably didn't spend enough time with them. A dealer will charge list price to cover setting it up and you won't understand it when you have to adjust it.

I know nothing about the Husky, but it sounds like the ball is too close to the tailgate for the Tundra. The square part that goes into the hitch receiver must be shorter than it should be for the truck. That whole assembly is the "head". The Hensley head is much, much longer and that's why the tailgate would fit. The Hensley is by far the most expensive WD hitch and has a steep learning curve. People that have them say it's the best, especially for longer and heavier trailers.

Gene