Towing w/ VW TDI post emissions scandal

[xrvr]

Not all states have yearly inspections, some, like Fl, never have inspections. Move here.

[phawk33]

[QUOTE=alantbird;1689170]I don't think in the end this will be as big as the media paints it.

My take on what VW did is BRILLIANT!

Not if they go Bankrupt because of this! Between the EPA fines and Owners' Class Action Suits, the future does not bode well for VW.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by jtwind

The EPA's negligence. I do realize that the EPA goofed up somehow and the mine waste got out, but the negligence as not having this cleaned up in the first place, Why wasn't this waste cleaned up by the mine owners, or Colorado etc. It was a time bomb waiting to happen and there are many more just like it. Is Colorado doing anything now about all the others just waiting to leak, not that I've heard. There is blame here no doubt, but the EPA was trying to keep tabs on things and someone made a mistake.

The waste is naturally in the mountain, when draining the water the waste came with it, too much to contain in their settling ponds....

[lindaebrewer]

Have a 2011 TDI Jetta Sportwagon w only 51K miles. Love the car. Am sick to my stomach over this mess. We were talking about a Touareg as a TV to replace our 2006 Toyota 4Runner. Not now. Damn.

[Wayward]

Originally Posted by lindaebrewer

Have a 2011 TDI Jetta Sportwagon w only 51K miles. Love the car. Am sick to my stomach over this mess.

It is not a big deal. As commented above, this stuff goes on all the time. It is all blown out of proportion by the press - which loves to make a crisis out of nothing.

The car you love is unfazed by it all.

[WestieHouse]

We drove our '09 Jetta TDI and '11 Jetta Sportswagen TDI all over the USA and western Canada. I love the performance, mileage, and range. Our kids got hand me downs as we progressed to our '14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel. The Jeep served as the TV for our 23FB on a recent 13,700 mile trip from Seattle to St. John's Newfoundland. We averaged 16.5 mpg overall. We had no trouble across the numerous passes and rough roads on "the Rock", though I did manage to crack an alloy wheel on the Jeep when I hit a pothole I could not see during a storm near Cornerbrook, NL.

Initially, I was unhappy that I would need to use DEF, but this is a very minor inconvenience. Walmart usually has the best price and turns over enough stock to assure it is not expired. I learned about the problems with expired DEF (it is temperature sensitive) after a dealer in California tried to sell me my first DEF refill with an expiration date that had passed.

[tsunami]

Currently drive a 2011 Audi A3 TDI. Love the performance, fuel economy, and outstanding quality of the car. I average about 43 MPG and I occasionally do not hesitate to test the outer limits of the paddle shifters when launching away from a stop light. Best fuel economy has been just over 50 MPG on the highway using the cruise control at 65 MPH. My car has just a touch over 77k on it and I can change the oil and fuel filter, anything more technically challenging mechanically, will be taken care via a local small shop that specializes in Bavarian manufactured vehicles. As a reminder, some nit-wit politician stated that busineeses don't need government over-site, that the markets will take care of themselves and others nit-wits are currently attempting to defund the EPA.

[Hamish]

From the International Business Times ( and others): First, car owners must be aware of their engines' model. Not all diesel-fueled engines were affected by the faulty software, Volkswagen said in a statement released Tuesday. "Discrepancies relate to vehicles with Type EA 189 engines, involving some 11 million vehicles worldwide," read the statement, adding, "A noticeable deviation between bench test results and actual road use was established solely for this type of engine."

Cars that fall under this category of diesel engines include but may not be limited to Jetta, 2009 to 2015; Jetta SportWagen TDI, 2009 to 2014; Beetle, 2012 to 2015; Beetle Convertible, 2013 to 2015; Audi A3, 2010 to 2015; Golf, 2010 to 2015; Golf SportWagen TDI, 2015; and Passat, 2012 to 2015, the Chicago Tribune reported Monday, citing a letter from the EPA.

At least to date, it is not the larger engines used in the Touareg, Audi Q7 and Porsche Cayenne that have a problem. In addition, the newest models seem to meet the required standards.


S&K

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[BearScream]

Originally Posted by flags99

From the International Business Times ( and others): First, car owners must be aware of their engines' model. Not all diesel-fueled engines were affected by the faulty software, Volkswagen said in a statement released Tuesday. "Discrepancies relate to vehicles with Type EA 189 engines, involving some 11 million vehicles worldwide," read the statement, adding, "A noticeable deviation between bench test results and actual road use was established solely for this type of engine."

Cars that fall under this category of diesel engines include but may not be limited to Jetta, 2009 to 2015; Jetta SportWagen TDI, 2009 to 2014; Beetle, 2012 to 2015; Beetle Convertible, 2013 to 2015; Audi A3, 2010 to 2015; Golf, 2010 to 2015; Golf SportWagen TDI, 2015; and Passat, 2012 to 2015, the Chicago Tribune reported Monday, citing a letter from the EPA.

At least to date, it is not the larger engines used in the Touareg, Audi Q7 and Porsche Cayenne that have a problem. In addition, the newest models seem to meet the required standards.

...

There is a VW statement via VW.com link to Volkswagen Diesel Information | Volkswagen Diesel Information
It does not mention the engine designation but includes a list of affected VW models (not Audi) but only specifies it applies to 2.0L 4-cylinder TDI cars.

• VW Jetta TDI (Model Years 2009 – 2015)
• VW Jetta SportWagen TDI (Model Years 2009-2014)
• VW Golf TDI (Model Years 2010-2015)
• VW Golf SportWagen TDI (Model Year 2015)
• VW Beetle TDI and VW Beetle Convertible TDI (Model Years 2012-2015)
• VW Passat TDI (Model Years 2012-2015

The combination whether or not towing, of performance, fuel economy and environmental compliance was central to my choosing a 20' AS and Jetta TDI as a reasonable solution in an age transitioning to sustainable energy. For me, this is a blow to the basic premise of mobile living.


While VW promises a "remedy," what that will mean to performance as a TV is crucial to the outcome for me.

[SeeMore]

“It takes a very savvy program to fool the computer and detect the sophisticated test cycle,” said Stanley Young, spokesman for the California Air Resources Board, which is also investigating VW. “This was clearly well thought out and took a lot of programming.”

Yeah, the traction/braking control system noticed the discrepancies in the wheel rotation rates (front & rear) and lack of steering wheel inputs. Really sophisticated (not)!

[Punch]

Please attempt to forgive me for this post:

Having had to put up with several holier-than-thou TDI owners over the last few years, attacking me for the gas guzzler that I drive, I cannot, despite my very best efforts, resist a certain feeling of Schadenfreude at this recent débacle.

I am sure that this feeling will pass, and that I will then be able to have the greatest sympathy with the suffering of those affected.

But for now:

[Wayward]

What VW did goes on all the time. Could this be the inevitable result of a government role moving from regulator of the auto industry, to being a stakeholder? If so, this is as ominous to the RV industry as it is to the tow vehicle industry.

Less adds up the more I read about this.

• We have not yet heard any study data indicating these TDI models are even producing significantly higher emissions - only that their software had an EPA test mode.
• Emissions testing is extremely complex yet there was no EPA investigation or charges. With nothing more than findings from an aftermarket company, the EPA confronted VW and demanded they admit guilt or have all VW/Audi diesel vehicles decertified - certain bankruptcy.
• VW will be hit with $18 billion in fines for questionable emissions - 20 times more than the $900 million GM just paid after ignition problems resulted 124 deaths. 60 times more than Hyundai was fined for rigging its software for EPA fuel mileage tests.

The $18 billion flowing into EPA coffers is what VW profits in one year! Or $2000 for every car VW produced in 2013! No problem, just raise car prices.

Something is rotten in Denmark. More here: EPA To Volkswagen: Emissions Cheating Is Far Worse Than Killing 124 People

[dkottum]

Yes, "suffering" all the way to the bank. Are you kidding me, what's to suffer?

[2012FB]

Originally it was only the smaller 4 cylinders. Have the V6s been implicated as well? If it has DEF it is good. Guess I am really glad I went with the 2014 ML350 BluTec over the VW products.


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[BearScream]

Originally Posted by Wayward

...

• We have not yet heard any study data indicating these TDI models are even producing significantly higher emissions - only that their software had an EPA test mode.
• Emissions testing is extremely complex yet there was no EPA investigation or charges. With nothing more than findings from an aftermarket company, the EPA confronted VW and demanded they admit guilt or have all VW/Audi diesel vehicles decertified - certain bankruptcy.

...

According to NY Times reporting http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/27/bu...a-scandal.html
the independent investigators including former EPA staffers teamed up with California state regulators to examine on-road performance of VW diesels. This had not been done previously, emissions testing being limited by both state and federal groups to dynamometer static testing.

Finding a large discrepency between static and road results and after several go-arounds and denials by VW engineers, CA regulators alerted the EPA. Still VW denied, blaming the testers, even provided new software. But the problem persisted, for all government groups. CA examined the software and found the cheat. What is more they arranged the static test to simulate on-road activity and the emissions soared.

That finally forced VW to admit the deceit.

[Glenritas]

The emissions of the 11,000,000 dirty VW's is 40% higher then the spec's.

That is the equivalent of having 19,000,000 clean VW's on the road.

This is 8,000,000 ghost smog producing vehicles.

That is a problem . VW got caught and they will have to face the consequences .

[Wayward]

Originally Posted by BearScream

the independent investigators including former EPA staffers teamed up with California state regulators to examine on-road performance of VW diesels.

That finally forced VW to admit the deceit.

Like I said, no EPA investigation. Since when does a private company and some CA bureaucrats represent the EPA?

Compare this to the investigations Toyota and GM faced....
DoT
FBI
US Congress
NHTSA
NASA (go figure)

It stinks.

[Wayward]

Originally Posted by Glenritas

The emissions of the 11,000,000 dirty VW's is 40% higher then the spec's.

Others say 5% - point is the EPA did not conduct an investigation.

A bit of NO is a 20x bigger deal than GM's negligence that killed 125 people? This is where we have lost our compass.

[J. Morgan]

Frankly, the emission goals set by the EPA for diesels over the past several years are unrealistic.

With this in mind, the "golden age" of small and medium duty diesels regarding economy and reliability is past.

It takes TOO MANY gimmicks for a diesel engine to pass modern EPA standards.

The extra "2% clean" for modern diesels comes at a high cost.


Brevi tempore!

[DHart]

Originally Posted by jcl

Next you are going to tell us that the climate is not changing, and that if it is, man's influences are not the primary cause of it.

Climate change is what the world is all about, and always has been!

Earth's climate has been changing constantly since the earth was formed.

We have been emerging from the last ice age, steadily, for quite some time.

Man may have a minute impact on this, but there is no stopping climate change.

Remove mankind from the planet and the changes in our climate will continue forever.

A short time ago, the planet was inhabitable for human beings due to climate. Far too cold. Called an ice age. The planet has been in and out of ice ages for ages.

Recently, climactic conditions have been favorable for human habitation on the planet. However, in the not too distant future, the earth will once again be inhabitable (due to climate) for humans. Nothing we can do about that.