For F150 owners towing 30' Airstreams

[GM Airstream]

Interesting that you think I had problems run'n the PU... They made it so simple that even you can operate it... ya just wind up the big main spring key... put it in drive and step on the gas... to go... how much more simple can you imagine... LOLLL

Here is some more info for you
Ford has been sued over issues with its much ballyhooed EcoBoost engine that in certain driving situations can go into “limp mode” causing shuddering and loss of power. This dangerous issue has all the makings of a class-action lawsuit and recall. In mine... if you put the ped down on the onramp.. it would sometimes falter.. shake and return to idle... you would have to let up on the gas... and then re-apply it slowly... This happened climbing hill too... and fords answer... well lets just say we sold the truck...

Since the 3.5L EcoBoost is turbocharged, the oil is under extreme stress. If the driver pushes it past the recommended oil change interval, the first item to show the abuse is usually the timing chain. Worn-out oil can damage the chain, guides and tensioner. leading to a rattling sound when you start 'er up...

and with the small cu in high hp... most of my friends have them ...have been having crankcase blowby problems... and with the turbo..they have had problems with cokeing issues that are very costly as the engine gets past warrentee...

Another issue with the EB engine is the loss of coolant... Ford is still working on that one.. seems it has to do with the fact they needed to increase the cooling flow... because of the heat generated and high rpm... fords fix for it... on the new F150's... has put a indicator... to tell you when you need to add more coolant so you don't burn up the engine... really!!! Of course when you get excessive blowby.. you get that great somethings burning smell inside when you turn the heater or AC on... ... heck in my 460 pu it goes and goes and goes.. and I never lose any.. coolant... or have cokeing issues from blowby... mainly because it doesn't work as hard as the EB engine has to... Which is probably why they have TO HAVE a 10 speed trans... which means the engine is always runn'n in a gear... and with the transmission of power... through them causes heat in the box... and then when its done with figur'n out which gear it wants to run in... so it stays at .. as he said 2300 rpm... to what speed... while towing.... it puts the power to the drive axle... so in effect you are losing almost 30% of your power to heat... yikes... that means you have to have them larger radiators to get rid of it...too...

But, thats not all.. I appreciated the fact that he thinks his tinker toy engine ... he writes that I didn't know what I was doing.. when I had mine... oh really... well I can say this... while yours is deciding which gear to get into.. while climbing the truck lane.. at 25 or 30 mph... with the trailer... my 460 seems to pass 'em like they are standing still... and keeping up with traffic... so much for new technology... huh...

Indeed ford is going to drop the V10 6.8L 413 cu in... and has talked about bring'n back the 430 v8.. which is the same family engine as the 460... yahoo... but, most of the friends I know.. that got new fords with the tinker toy engine... are looking to trade 'em for the 440, 454 or 460 vehicles... they are tired of the constant shifting that the 10 speed seems to do... I would be tired after the third stop light from all the shifting going on just to get down the road... My 460 gets into gear and stays their... almost right away... something to be said for a smooth ride... huh...


Been hearing lately about individuals that purchased their new F-150's with the new Ecoboost motor (what ford has changed the design of the EB engine this year... wonder why... think it has to do with their ongoing problems .... ) Most having issues and not being happy after paying a premium price for their trucks.
When I was shopping around for my 2011 the dealership tried to sell me the Ecoboost motor. I told 'em that I would not own a fullsize pickup with a V6 motor. I 'em there is no replacement for displacement. Plus said... you have a new motor with new technology, I was not going to be a test bed for Ford. I am very happy with the 5.0 all aluminum motor 360hp , 3.73 rear end with tow packaged, 4x4 offroad package, and I get 20 highway, 17.5 city for gas mileage. (and the EB engine gets less.. a major disapointment) I think Ford sold everyone a bill of goods with their Ecoboost motor. the Ecoboost motor might be great in a passenger car but would not stand the test of time in a pickup. Im glad for the choice I made. Feel a little sad for those who did not.

So when the previous person got a kick out of the term tinker toy engine... and thinks that I am ranting... best to ask the person who owned one... like I did... while I am sure their are some good ones out their.. after all they pushed a couple of million out the door to newbies... I went back to my good old 460 PU... as it is like the energizer bunny.. goes on and on and on... without any problems... (grin from ear to ear)

[KWN306]

I purchased an 2016 F150 Super Cab XLT 6.5 bed Max tow 3.5 Eco because mother Ford said it will do the job.

That being said I came from a 2000 Dodge 2500 diesel with HD everything.

My 30' FC pushed the F150 all over the place, tractor trailer trucks passing pushed the rig all over the place, plus I didn't feel the brakes were strong enough.

When those twin turbos spool up you can watch the gas gauge head to empty as well, I was getting 8 - 9 mpg.

I will have to admit that I am a fan of the 6 speed trans in the tow mode, it wors better than a diesel jake brake.

I purchased a Pro Pride hitch and it made a world of difference, but I still had the brake issue and poor fuel mileage.

Went out and purchased a used Chevy 2500HD with a 6.0 L gas. First time using it we got 11 mpg and it stops very nicely.

The F150 is for sale.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

One minor change from "back in the good old days": The engine is no longer hooked to a 3 speed manual transmission (4 if you count reverse ). Back then things like six speeds and ten speeds were something you got on a bicycle. That does make a difference ....

Bob

[DKB_SATX]

7 years is a long time in the development cycle of an engine family, though it may not seem so when you're enamored of one that hasn't been produced in 27. I think there's also some conflation of teething problems of the 2.7 Ecoboost thrown in there, which is a different critter. I know 10 people personally who tow Airstreams with Ecoboost F150s, 2 of whom had '11s (one still does) and one with a '12, the rest are scattered through the remaining years. 1 of the '11 owners experienced the high-humidity "limp mode" problem and had the fix done, the other had it done pre-emptively under the TSB. None have had the timing chain problems I've heard about... maybe my friends know how to keep up with maintenance?

I provided the information you ignored... 2300 RPM has me tooling along around 68 mph in 8th. I lock out 9 and 10 when towing because the transmission does hunt a bit through those ranges when maintaining 68 or so as the road rises and falls, but will settle down in 8th (the 1st overdrive range) nearly all the time. So far the only time I've managed to cause the engine temperature to rise was towing the Flying Cloud up Casper Mountain from the Casper side, 15-20 mph switchbacks in 90+ degree weather and even so it never neared the red, just informed me that it was above normal operating temperature (when it comes up above the "normal" tick it starts to show the actual temp above the analog indication, a nice feature.)

My truck returns 17.5 in summer, AC running all the time city driving, and about 22 highway with the cruise set in the high 70s (running about mid-pack of the traffic on Texas highways.) It was doing a bit better around town without the AC for the first few months of the year, I suspect I'll see that again when I can be comfy with the windows down sometime in late October.

The Coyote is also an excellent engine and if I didn't like towing my trailer to high elevations I would've considered it too, though I was weary of my wheezy 5.4 climbing over passes. My 3.5 Ecoboost is a fantastic replacement for THAT displacement.

I'm not telling you that my 3.5 Ecoboost is a better truck for YOUR use. I'm telling you it's a great truck for MY use and you needn't feel sorry for me.

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by Burnsnow

I'm new to this, we are looking at a 30' Classic, thinking I probably need the F250, would love to get by with the F 150, any input would be helpful.

Hello,
kindly suggest you look at 2016/2017 Classic Tow Vehicle "thread" under 2015 to current Classic category. Which "Tow Vehicle" can be compared to discussing politics in public. Best of luck.
Best regards, sbowman

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by sbowman

Hello,
kindly suggest you look at 2016/2017 Classic Tow Vehicle "thread" under 2015 to current Classic category. Which "Tow Vehicle" can be compared to discussing politics in public. Best of luck.
Best regards, sbowman

Error on me, 2016-Current Classic (all lengths) sbowman

[BCC1]

Originally Posted by GM Airstream

Wow... what a long list of calculations... I have through the years towed with several kinds of vheicles... from station wagons to PU's... and while the calc's might show that you can tow it... you can pull a elephant with a mouse too if it has the right gearing... but... I have found that...

I would not tow a 30 ftr with anything less than a 3/4 t PU... due to the brakes/stopping ability. They also have a heavier frame... but, today ford puts out tinker toy engines... (they are coming out with larger ones... now that the EPA et al have been put in place... thanks Pres Trump) and while you can tow with them little engines ... my thinking is for how long... as the one we tried out.. liked to get up in RPM... way up in RPM... and with the turbo.. while it did make the grade... you could smell it cooking... etc... ford is having problems with intake valves coakeing up... etc on these engines too... New heads is their fixit... till the warrentee runs out...

If you go back through the old airstream stuff you will find that orginally they said that to pull the 30's you needed a vehicle with at least a 350 cu engine... and in the 60's them were big horses under the hood.... Why do you think they recommended that?

I know technology has come a long ways today... high hp small cu engine... but its the torque that makes it all work....

I pulled with the 5L old 302 engine.. and while it did the job back then... when you came to a hill.. the trans wanted to down shift... and you almost had the ped to the metal most of the time... except for flatland and going down hill...

I got suckered into the dealership selling me a 1T ford Van.. with the 5.4L engine... they said it would work just fine... with my 30 ftr... well it didn't... first problem I had was with the trans... seemed even though it had a trans cooler in the tow package... it was the metal that the gears are made of that failed... 2nd gear went south from a stoplight right in the middle of the intersection... with a bang...
Later I was told by the trans shop.. (no we didn't take it back to ford because of all the hassle over the extended war'ty... what it covered and didnt') and the chief mechanic their said that the trans behind the 5.4 is weak... He suggested going to a different trans that is the same as the V10 had 6 speed hvy duity... if I was going to pull the RV... I considered that.. but in the limited towing we did with the 5.4... it too was weak when it came to any uphill grades... so we sold the van... and went back to the 3/4 T pu with the 460 engine... which pulls just fine...

Now as to gas mileage... with the 5.4 and other small engines.. what you think your going to get and do is big difference... I was expecting the 5.4 to make about 11 or 12 according to what the dealer said.. in reality.. I got 7-9 mpg... and we towed at 55 most of the time... this is also true of any of the other smaller engines... they just have so much power... and you can blow the gas out of the pipe by higher RPM to gear through to the torque required... to get up the hill...

Now... with the 460 you would think that it would be worse in gas mileage.. but, even though its a fuel injected 4x4... it makes 10-13 pulling the trailer... almost consistant... and we can move along at 60-65.. no problems... so traffic doesn't stacked up behind us going up that hill...
It makes better gas mileage than the 5.4 did... go figure...

Yes you put your foot in it.. and it drinks gas... but, at least its moving up the grade... and not at walking speed... most of the time I can move along with the cruse control on.. and it takes care of getting down the road... going from overdrive to next down on steep grades... otherwise it just hum's along at 2200 rpm doing 60 mph...

I thought it would be a hog going up the hills but found it actually did better on gas than the smaller engines did... over the distance...

Its a shame that they don't make the 460 anymore... its a great engine that goes miles and miles... without any problems... which to me is worth the vehicle... as you dont even know the trailer is behind ya when your towing with it... but, your right in town they are clumbersome... for a city vehicle...

One other thing that I will relate to ya..
is the fact that one time .. we stopped in for gas... and left the vehicle un-attended ... gas'ed up.. and left... got into some hills and had to use the brakes... but... something was wrong... looking down at the ...brake controller said that we didnt have a connection... so we slowed down and pulled off.. the truck brakes did all the work... come to find out somehow the trailer plug was disconected and hanging with the chains..... how I don't know how as the plug has a locking part on it.... except that... it could be someone pulled it while we were inside paying for the gas... and we didn't check until we got into the hills...when we needed it...

The reason I say this.. is because their have been several accidents... I know of... that the trailer brakes failed... and the owners were towing with a smaller PU .. like the 150... it couldn't stop the rig.. the TV brakes failed trying...

The gov'nt won't let you tow anything with less than a 3/4t vehicle... if that tells you something too... they must have paid them engineeers good bux to figure out what is and isn't safe... Looking at the US trans highway safety stats... the 1/2T-5/8 (150 series and others) have a larger number of deaths on the road than the 3/4-1T... mostly from loss of control... while towing.... go figure...

So their is more to the issue than just making gas mileage... from my position... The extra cost per mile is not first on the list... safety is... just in case things...

Have fun... be safe...

Respectfully, your experience with the 5.4 Ford motor is not comparable to the latest boosted 3.5 with the ten speed transmission.

I had a 5.4 f150, a 3.5, a 5.0 and the 3.5/10 speed.

The new once is by far the most powerful of the lot and would leave the 5.4 for dead, in every category.

I am not commenting on you brake points, because on that, I have no personal experience or expertise.

But the new 3.5 gets real world mixed driving mileage of 22 mpg and I have to be careful or it will light up the rear tires, pulling away unloaded. This was never a concern before.

[Glider]

I haven't followed the entire thread. Life is too short.

For what it is worth, I have been towing a 2016 FC 30' with a Platinum F-150, SuperCrew, 4WD, 3.5 ECO, max tow package for about a year and a half. Love the truck as a tow vehicle and as a daily driver. Love the AirStream, too.

If I had to do it over again, I would build up from a Lariat instead of getting the Platinum package. I would also remember to order towing mirrors.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

One minor change from "back in the good old days": The engine is no longer hooked to a 3 speed manual transmission (4 if you count reverse ). Back then things like six speeds and ten speeds were something you got on a bicycle. That does make a difference ....

Bob

The smogged 460 made maybe 200 horsepower. Not enough to tow something heavy uphill. Used in RVs they ran hot and cracked exhaust manifolds.

[ITSNO60]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

The smogged 460 made maybe 200 horsepower. Not enough to tow something heavy uphill. Used in RVs they ran hot and cracked exhaust manifolds.

And don't forget the timing chain which could stretch enough to affect valve timing in less than 40,000 miles.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by ITSNO60

And don't forget the timing chain which could stretch enough to affect valve timing in less than 40,000 miles.

Hi

As I've mentioned elsewhere, our experience "back in the day" was that you could expect a variety of fiddly issues when using a car for heavy towing. None of them was catastrophic. We did spend time in some odd places getting repairs. Indeed others have commented that their experience was different.

Bob

[KWN306]

I used to pull my wife's steel gooseneck horse trailer, with 3 horses, with a tack room full of crap, probably the trailer loaded grossed out at 17K with a 89 4 door Ford dually with a 460. I put 200K on that truck and other than synthetic oil changes, tires, brakes, batteries and washing and waxing the big beast I did nothing to it. It got 10 mpg going to the grocery store or 10 mpg pulling the trailer. Dam thing was a work horse.

My take on this situation is..............the auto manufactures are in love with aluminum (anyone remember the Vega engines) and AS is getting away from plywood and going to particle board which adds a ton of weight to the trailer.

When I was 16 yrs old our neighbor bought a brand new AS (probably 24' -
26' long) and pulled it with a Chevy 1500 Carryall / Suburban with a 350 motor. He would purchase a new truck every 4 to 5 yrs because the old one had 100K on it and would start to use oil. He did this from 1968 until the day he died. When the AS had 300K on it he took it back to the factory for new running gear and appliances because he and his wife didn't like any of the new floor plans.

AS needs to go back to their roots and make the trailers lighter again and then everyone could pull their AS with a 1/2 ton truck and maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation..........or not?

Just thought I'd stir the pot

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by KWN306

d AS is getting away from plywood and going to particle board which adds a ton of weight to the trailer.

Hi

Which of the current lineup of AS trailers use particle board and where?

Bob

[KWN306]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Which of the current lineup of AS trailers use particle board and where?

Bob

My 2017 30' FC is full of it.........the walls in the bathroom are 1- 1/8" thick (I've drilled holes in it to mount an extra towel bar.) Been working with wood all my life and there is a big difference in the wood chips coming off the drill bit when drilling into plywood vs particle board. With that being said it is a very high grade, not what you would find in a brand "X" coach. The base of the dinette and sofa are as well. The only thing that is truly plywood like the older models are the cabinet / overhead doors or anything with a curve in it.

[StreaminGuy]

Originally Posted by BCC1

Respectfully, your experience with the 5.4 Ford motor is not comparable to the latest boosted 3.5 with the ten speed transmission.

I had a 5.4 f150, a 3.5, a 5.0 and the 3.5/10 speed.

The new once is by far the most powerful of the lot and would leave the 5.4 for dead, in every category.

I am not commenting on you brake points, because on that, I have no personal experience or expertise.

But the new 3.5 gets real world mixed driving mileage of 22 mpg and I have to be careful or it will light up the rear tires, pulling away unloaded. This was never a concern before.

Good post, reflects the same I've heard from owners. G

[SSquared]

The floors are plywood. However, there was a period when particle board was used for the floors.

[StreaminGuy]

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX

7 years is a long time in the development cycle of an engine family, though it may not seem so when you're enamored of one that hasn't been produced in 27. I think there's also some conflation of teething problems of the 2.7 Ecoboost thrown in there, which is a different critter. I know 10 people personally who tow Airstreams with Ecoboost F150s, 2 of whom had '11s (one still does) and one with a '12, the rest are scattered through the remaining years. 1 of the '11 owners experienced the high-humidity "limp mode" problem and had the fix done, the other had it done pre-emptively under the TSB. None have had the timing chain problems I've heard about... maybe my friends know how to keep up with maintenance?

I provided the information you ignored... 2300 RPM has me tooling along around 68 mph in 8th. I lock out 9 and 10 when towing because the transmission does hunt a bit through those ranges when maintaining 68 or so as the road rises and falls, but will settle down in 8th (the 1st overdrive range) nearly all the time. So far the only time I've managed to cause the engine temperature to rise was towing the Flying Cloud up Casper Mountain from the Casper side, 15-20 mph switchbacks in 90+ degree weather and even so it never neared the red, just informed me that it was above normal operating temperature (when it comes up above the "normal" tick it starts to show the actual temp above the analog indication, a nice feature.)

My truck returns 17.5 in summer, AC running all the time city driving, and about 22 highway with the cruise set in the high 70s (running about mid-pack of the traffic on Texas highways.) It was doing a bit better around town without the AC for the first few months of the year, I suspect I'll see that again when I can be comfy with the windows down sometime in late October.

The Coyote is also an excellent engine and if I didn't like towing my trailer to high elevations I would've considered it too, though I was weary of my wheezy 5.4 climbing over passes. My 3.5 Ecoboost is a fantastic replacement for THAT displacement.

I'm not telling you that my 3.5 Ecoboost is a better truck for YOUR use. I'm telling you it's a great truck for MY use and you needn't feel sorry for me.

Excellent post with excellent facts and your own experience. Many will benefit from this. I've previously owned 105 vehicles and still own some...some were hot rods, muscle cars, etc with Turbo's and a couple with super chargers. There most certainly is a replacement for displacement. I've also had three 460's and those cracked manifolds are a real problem. I've also got several friends very happy with their Ecoboost trucks as well. Now, I'm unsubscribing from this thread, ha! G

[GM Airstream]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Which of the current lineup of AS trailers use particle board and where?

Bob

They have been since the early 80's... check your floor... it ain't plywood anymore toto...

Well.. next week I am going to try pulling the 34 ft airstream with a swinn 18 speed... with all them gears...should get some fantastic mileage... but still scratching my @## on how to hook up the brakes... Someone suggested putting pull pins on the tires.. so when you want to stop.. you pull 'em.. and they go flat... everyone knows you can't go anywhere with a flat tire...

Its amazing that a 200 hp 460 engine can outpull a 3.5 turbo... going up hills...

Just came back from Northern Cal... and hit the grapevine... several others in the AS group caravan have the 150's 250's with the ecoboost engine... that screamed ...(6000rpm is screaming) and after they pulled over into the truck climbing lane... we stay'ed in the right... pass'ed 'em all without ever dropping below 2nd gear... and maintained the 2500 rpm range... even shifted back up into 3rd several times...

Now if they have all that power an torque.. how come they were dragg'n their (chains) and not keeping up with NORMAL traffic ?...

When we got to the top.. and a rest stop... waited for 'em to catch up... a few had pop'ed the hood and were conserned about the overheating... so we had to wait again... Never have that problem with the old 460... and as some have said... they overheat and break exhaust man's... never had that problem yet... DID on the 454 GM engine... dodge also has the problem they related too... but, the old ford 460 now has 145K miles on it and still going strong...

My impression of this echo boost tinker toy engine.. is not good... seems one in our caravan cracked his exhaust pipe... as they found the floor getting hot... checking.. yep ford is right on their recall... they do have a pipe problem on that engine... so their vacation is being spent at the ford dealer getting warrentee work done... are we having fun yet ..

[CRH]

I have a 460. It still has it's original manifolds and timing chain. It has been used to pull 6 or 8 campers. It has always done a fantastic job.

If I had to replace my truck, I doubt if I would buy a Ecoboost and probably wouldn't buy a 5.0. I suppose I would choose a new 6.2 Super Duty.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by GM Airstream

They have been since the early 80's... check your floor... it ain't plywood anymore toto...


Just came back from Northern Cal... and hit the grapevine... several others in the AS group caravan have the 150's 250's with the ecoboost engine... that screamed ...(6000rpm is screaming) and after they pulled over into the truck climbing lane... we stay'ed in the right... pass'ed 'em all without ever dropping below 2nd gear... and maintained the 2500 rpm range... even shifted back up into 3rd several times...

Now if they have all that power an torque.. how come they were dragg'n their (chains) and not keeping up with NORMAL traffic ?...

Not going to put too much stock into comments suggesting F250s are available with any Ecoboost engine and new Airstreams have particle-board floors.

Zero info about the supposed Ecoboost trucks with supposed problems pulling the grapevine. Were they even set up to tow? 3.15:1 gears maybe? Dealers sell those, for some reason. 2.7l engine perhaps?

Approaching Raton Pass from the Colorado side is about 10 miles of steady climb with a steeper grade the last couple of miles, and the pass is about 3700 feet higher than Tejon. I snapped this for my boss just before the summit because he was commenting that his truck (pulling a big square box) started to come up in temperature come home over Raton earlier in the summer.

Towing 26U with marine-grade plywood subfloors with full freshwater and gear for a week-long trip, probably running around 6200 lb. Note the roughly 65 mph speed (the speed limit there), normal engine and transmission temperatures and that sky-high 3500 RPM (again to hold 65 on the steeper last stretch at 7800 feet... most of the way up from Trinidad was in 7th well below 3000 rpm and even at 3500 it's not "screaming" by any stretch of anyone's imagination.)

3.5 Ecoboost, "Max Tow" package w/3.55:1 differential. Bone stock.