Trimetric vs Magnum with remote

[Trailbob]

I plan to install a Magnum MMS 1012 1000w inverter/charger to replace the factory converter in our 2013 25FC. I also like the idea of a Trimetric 2030RV to monitor the battery bank. My question is: If I get the Magnum battery monitor and remote, will it give the same information as the Trimetric?

Is there an advantage in also having the Trimetric

Thanks- Bob

[lewster]

If you're talking about the Magnum ME-BMK then yes, you get the same information.

The benefits are a seamless installation thru the inverter and the need for only a single remote panel, the ME-RC. Much less wire to deal with and only A couple of phone-type cables for connections.


Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357

[Trailbob]

Thanks Lew, PM sent.

[KJRitchie]

Can a Trimetric be used with Lithium batteries?

If I install one of these Trimetrics and switch to lithiums in the future could the Trimetric still work or do you anticipate more lithium specific panels to be available?

Kelvin

[dznf0g]

I'm using educated guessing here, but I don't think the Trimetric cares. It just monitors amps and volts. Any of the other features are programmable. I can't think of any feature which is battery type specific.

[BoldAdventure]

I don't know about using a Trimetric. But I took my lithium bank down to 28% over the past couple of days and the voltage only dropped to 13.28 V's.

TriMetric Model Descriptions, Present and Past | Bogart Engineering

That information is not going to tell you squat about the state of the batteries. Unlike a lead acid that decreases, it's voltage. Lithiums have a flat discharge rate. So if you're not properly monitoring how many amp hours you've used you could get yourself into trouble.

The magnum screen I believe can track amp hours used.

I prefer a graph and knowing the state of my cells. If I was just using the IPN Pro Remote, I'd have to select through the screens all the time and hope nothing was off.

[BoldAdventure]

You've maybe seen this:


And now, compare to my lithiums, that chart is out the window.

[dznf0g]

Through programming setup, the Trimetric does monitor amp hour usage. You then set your desired percentage of "battery state" at whatever you determine you want your minimum state of charge to be. I reset mine annually as the wet cells age. When new, my batts were 125 ah at 12.1v. Last spring, they were still at 125ah at 12.1v at 4 years old. When they drop in ah used at 12.1v, I just reset the capacity for a new lower number.

[SCOTTinNJ]

Originally Posted by Trailbob

I plan to install a Magnum MMS 1012 1000w inverter/charger to replace the factory converter in our 2013 25FC.

If you do this will the regular outlets then work with the new inverter? How difficult is the install?

[KJRitchie]

Since the OEM inverter circuits are separate from the 120v circuits isn't it just a matter of connecting the Magnum the same way as the OEM inverter?

Kelvin

[KJRitchie]

Originally Posted by BoldAdventure

You've maybe seen this:


And now, compare to my lithiums, that chart is out the window.

So it appears the only way you can monitor lithiums is by amps used? How does that monitor show the state of the batteries? Does it calculate how many amps the batteries, based on their size,can take then subtract the amps used and calculate the percentage used? Does the percentage used take into account the batteries shouldn't be discharged greater than 80% so when the lower end of that scales is reached you know the batteries are close to 80% discharged and you need to shutdown everything to avoid damaging your $2500 batteries.

Kelvin

[BigAl]

i Believe most Lithium batteries automatically shut off when power level in the battery gets down to a preset level.
Al
no warning though.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by BigAl

i Believe most Lithium batteries automatically shut off when power level in the battery gets down to a preset level.
Al
no warning though.

I believe that's not internal to the battery, but rather circuitry and software in the component which it powers.

[lewster]

Originally Posted by SCOTTinNJ

If you do this will the regular outlets then work with the new inverter? How difficult is the install?

No,

The smaller Magnum MMS-1012 is only a 1000 watt inverter/charger and does not have the power to energize all of your trailer's outlets. Remember that it only has a 1000 watt output, or 8.3 amps @ 120VAC.

You would need the larger MS-2012 for that application.

[lewster]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

I believe that's not internal to the battery, but rather circuitry and software in the component which it powers.

That depends on the manufacturer of the battery monitor system. We use a visual notification of battery disconnect and a manual re-set.

[dznf0g]

Yes, external to the battery itself. Correct?
Edit: meant to quote Lew

[lewster]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Yes, external to the battery itself. Correct?

Correct

[ghaynes755]

Here's a nice set of curves for Lithiums. The wet cell charts, well, throw them away as previously stated. What's really needed is measurement of amps being used. And there is a caveat that I have found with the Elite LCD readout, and likely most other amp measuring devices. They work great if you have some type of loads on the system. Something over 2-3 ah of draw. When in storage mode, everything turned off in your trailer such as winter storage they lose track and are not accurate. I've been down this route and had discussions with Elite. My storage currently has a draw of about .3ah.

The bar graph basically doesn't move. The BlueSky also loses track, that it likely more a factor of the way it keeps track and expects to see occasional solar input. I'm stored inside so that doesn't happen.

I don't know if a Trimetric or adding the Magnum BMK unit would make much difference for Lithiums.

Here's the link to the curves. There are two, a charge and a discharge.http://elitepowersolutions.com/docs/...g%20Curves.pdf

Discharge looks like this:



The curves are colored by discharge rate. 1C is equal to the ah capacity of the battery as a discharge rate. So a 100ah battery would have a 1C rate of 100 amps. That's more than most of us would see. And that starts to lead to the issue of tracking ah usage. My small .3ah rate is a .003C rate. Elite says with a different shunt that they could do a program change to follow a different rate but that same shunt wouldn't work for our normal loading situation. I'd guess it would also mess up the setup with the Magnum.

Shutdown for low voltage is handled by a relay. Same for an over voltage situation. During charging if you have a BMS unit then that also helps balance individual cells or packs of cells depending on the BMS to stop charging a specific cell. But you still want over/under relays in place. Along with a well programmed Magnum or other programmable charger.

[KJRitchie]

Gary, are you removing your lithiums to store at your house during winter storage, due to the issue of charging when under 32F?

Kelvin

[ghaynes755]

Kelvin, no I am leaving them in the trailer. I have a logging thermometer which I check once per week. Also a small 200w ceramic heater on a temperature controlled switch. So far even though temps have dropped into the 0-10degree range overnight with 20's during the day the interior temps have stayed above 30 degrees and that batteries show individual cell voltages above 32 degrees.

Removing lithiums could/would be a PITA. Between battery connectors and BMS sensors there would be a lot of work. If gets colder then I have a battery wrap that would keep them toasty.

If I didn't have power in my storage unit then I would need to remove them. So depends on the individual situation. Something to consider when making the move to lithiums.