Yamaha ef2400is propane powered gen

[Boondocker]

For me, the AC issue while interesting is peripheral. I decided the extra power would be nice if I ever needed to run power tools or the like. I am curious though. When starting up the AC, does it make any difference if it is set a higher temp setting on start, then moved down, or is the electrical demand the same to get the compressor going the same regardless?

Said another way; is the electric demand constant regardless of temp setting with the only difference being cycle time during cooling phases?

[Poprivet]

Originally Posted by Gen Disarray

For me, the AC issue while interesting is peripheral. I decided the extra power would be nice if I ever needed to run power tools or the like. I am curious though. When starting up the AC, does it make any difference if it is set a higher temp setting on start, then moved down, or is the electrical demand the same to get the compressor going the same regardless?

Said another way; is the electric demand constant regardless of temp setting with the only difference being cycle time during cooling phases?

Your 2nd statement is most correct. However, the main problem with running the A/C on a small generator is during the starting of the A/C. Starting current (amps) is 5 to 7 times greater than running current. Its a huge load thrown at the generator all at once. This causes the generator to slow down some and that compounds the problem as the current flow will increase even more. The protective devices, circuit breakers and such, have a race to see which one reacts first. If they do not react fast enough, the usual result is a destroyed A/C motor. You can actually hear this - the loud hum during starting of the A/C.

[Silvertwinkie]

Congrats....you'll be happy with it...I'm happy with mine.

As for the 10%, the Yamaha works the same way as the Honda. I have not observed any loss with it so far as well.

[bhayden]

Did a lot of searching before buying a Yamaha EF2800i. The YF is Yamaha's "home use" line. They make a corresponding YF line for most models with is the "industrial" line. Cost is about the same. The differences are, 1) the EF line has a two year warranty and the YF only a one year, 2) the YF has GFI circuit portection. The number like 2400 or 2800 is the peak, not the continuous power output. The continuous power output will be ~200 watts less. The "i" at the end of the Yamaha designation stands for "inverter". The inverter type generators are more expensive but provide much cleaner power (required for computers and just about everything including microwaves now days has a computer built in). The inverter is supposed result in a weight savings and certainly seems to allow smaller packaging. The big advantage of the inverter is the output voltage isn't tied to rpm so it can throttle way back under low loads which saves gas and is MUCH quieter. It also helps at the high end of rated power since it can rev higher when more power is needed; particularly in situations like startup current for refrigerators or AC units.

I haven't been able to determine if the AC on my '78 Argosy 24 is 11,000 or 13,500 BTU. I do know it was marginal on a 15amp household circuit (albeit with an extension cord). Anyway, reports here and on RV.net reported mixed success with the 2400 powering the AC so I opted for the 2800. It has NO PROBLEM what so ever.

I have yet to convert mine to Propane. What I've heard from everyone that's actually done it is there is NO power loss going to propane. Propane doesn't have the energy density of gasoline but gasoline doesn't vaporize very efficiently. That's why cars now days have EFI instead of carburetors and carburetors on high performance engines are way more complicated than the lawnmower unit on a generator. Also, a carburetor is jetted for one altitude, pressure and humidity. The secondary regulator on a propane conversion allows you to optimize the gas delivery for conditions. So if you're at 5,000 feet at extreme temperatures (either hot or cold) it's likely the propane will out perform gasoline. The folks in the know that do the conversion tell me the only loss of power would be with the tri-fuel conversion and then only at or near full throttle operation. This is because the gas delivery is via an adapter ring that fits on the inlet of the carb has has the effect of a restrictor plate. The propane only conversion replaces the gas jet with a larger jet for propane and no loss of power. Again, everyone I've heard from that's actually done the conversion reports no loss of power and pretty much a 1:1 conversion from gallons of propane used to gallons of gas.

I can tell you from personal experience that carrying gasoline around stinks, literally! Also if you're area is hit by a wide spread power outage there's a good chance gasoline stations that are operating will be far and few between, have exceedingly long lines and will likely run out of fuel. You'll live your life waiting in gas lines and then live with the stench in you car for days to follow. You're also limited to the run time of your tank which means powering everything off and refilling once or twice a day.

As for noise the EF2800 is louder than an EU2000. I don't have any larger units to compare to. The EF2800 is also an "open frame" design. The 2400 with it's sound deadening shroud should be quieter. Noise wasn't really a problem. With the generator outside our front window you could only hear it when the RPM kicked up like when the refrigerator turned on. Neighbors generators made WAY more noise than our little Yamaha.

-Bernie

[cammur]

Originally Posted by bhayden

...The folks in the know that do the conversion tell me the only loss of power would be with the tri-fuel conversion and then only at or near full throttle operation. This is because the gas delivery is via an adapter ring that fits on the inlet of the carb has has the effect of a restrictor plate. The propane only conversion replaces the gas jet with a larger jet for propane and no loss of power. Again, everyone I've heard from that's actually done the conversion reports no loss of power and pretty much a 1:1 conversion from gallons of propane used to gallons of gas.
-Bernie

Whoops! I didn't realize the propane conversion and the tri-fuel conversion were two different things. So a propane conversion unit will not also run alternatively on gasoline? That might be more restrictive than I want to go.

[Boondocker]

Originally Posted by cammur

Whoops! I didn't realize the propane conversion and the tri-fuel conversion were two different things. So a propane conversion unit will not also run alternatively on gasoline? That might be more restrictive than I want to go.

Cam, if you go to the website for US Carb, you will see a tri-fuel option for propane, natural gas, and gasoline. The other conversion they offer is for natural gas and propane but not gasoline. When people speak about the propane converted models they are normally refering to the trifuel.

[Phil Gobie]

I am still looking and reading but a couple of points to consider: 1) There are hard start kits (capacitor) to reduce the start load of the AC compressor and once it is running the load is less. 2) Yamaha claims that it has a brief start up load capacity of over 3000 watts for a few seconds and 2400 watts for up to 20 minuets. I am thinking that the 2400 and a hard start kit on the AC that it may work and once its running it should be able to keep up?
Anyone have experience with a hard start kit?

[Poprivet]

Originally Posted by Phil Gobie

I am still looking and reading but a couple of points to consider: 1) There are hard start kits (capacitor) to reduce the start load of the AC compressor and once it is running the load is less. 2) Yamaha claims that it has a brief start up load capacity of over 3000 watts for a few seconds and 2400 watts for up to 20 minuets. I am thinking that the 2400 and a hard start kit on the AC that it may work and once its running it should be able to keep up?
Anyone have experience with a hard start kit?

I have never heard of a hard start kit but it sounds interesting, Do you know a source or have any information on the kits?

[pmclemore]

The EF2400is starts and runs equally well with Gas or Propane. In fact, you can be running on propane, flip the fuel switch to run on gas while you go find your spare propane tank, hook up, then switch back. Or vice-versa.

As for propane, since I have a diesel truck, it is especially nice not to have to mess with gasoline at all.

Pat

[bhayden]

From what I remember the "Boost" is only available on models with electric start. The way I understand it is the generator is able to use the starter batery as a capacitor to get this brief boost. Check the spec but I think that with Yamaha the 2400 in the model number is the short term max output.

The trifuel vs dedicated conversion question is one reason I've procrastinated making the switch. The trifuel seems a little easy for an owner conversion and it can be "undone". The dedicated conversion requires drilling the carb and replacing the jet. I really don't foresee EVER running on gasoline once I make the switch. However the comment about switching from propane to gasoline while changing tanks is interesting. Has anyone run a generator with a pair of tanks that have an automatic change over regulator? Will that let the generator continue to run?

-Bernie

[TomW]

Originally Posted by David Alan

I have never heard of a hard start kit but it sounds interesting, Do you know a source or have any information on the kits?

David,

Back in my fast-food days, I watched with fascination anytime the K-way system, a device used to make carbonated water for soft drinks, had a new compressor installed. Every so often, a new compressor would not reliably start up (it would just sit there & hum) and the technician would install a hard start kit (available from refrigeration supply houses). All the kit was was a bigger start capacitor.

Once running, though, the capacitor's job is done, and it makes no further contribution. There will be no reduction in running load.

Keep in mind that the only thing a start capacitor does is 'kick' the motor into spinning in the right direction. After the motor is spinning (i.e. not sitting there humming doing nothing) the hard start kit's job is done.

Tom

[Phil Gobie]

David, I was having one installed on my guest house AC unit. Turned out it was already on the compressor. My AC guy was familiar with the request. I think it is a relatively simple start capacitor that is wired on the compressor wire feed.

[lewster]

Originally Posted by David Alan

I have never heard of a hard start kit but it sounds interesting, Do you know a source or have any information on the kits?

Look at the leads on your A/C and find the start capacitor. It is the one with 2 leads...one in and one out. Check the rating of the cap and just get a bigger one (larger microfarad rating).

If you have ever heard those outrageous car stereo systems with the bass that will blow you out of your car from across 4 lanes of traffic, they also use very large capacitors (or bank of caps) as a boost feature to a provide clean audio signal to the subwoofers at times of peak output so the amps won't 'clip' the signal and distort the resultant sound.

A larger start cap on a roof A/C will do the same thing for a lower wattage start. The actual start-up will be a little delayed while it charges up, but the result should be positive with no motor damage.

You should also check the amp rating of your compressor and blower motor to see if the intended generator will power it .

[68 Overlander]

Rodney,
FWIW, my 2500 watt propane Onan does run my 13.5 air conditioner and came stock as an option in my Lance truck camper that I use for hunting and fishing. I was surprised it ran it so well but admittedly, there is not much left over. I would not even attempt to run a coffee pot or toaster at the same time. Hope this helps.

[Boondocker]

I am trying to decide/figure out how to incorportate the new genset into my travel habits. One idea that I find attractive IF it is safe and doesnt have any disadvantages that I havent foreseen is to store it and run it from the bed of my pickup. The pickup bed has a shell over it so the gen would be out of the weather. I am assuming that the bed would be ventilated sufficently for this. So what would be the downside or danger to doing this? I have attached a pic of the truck if that is of any help.

[pmclemore]

Rodney,

I think you have plenty of exhaust ventilation, but I would watch out to be sure you had adequate heat-dissapating airflow. If your side windows will open and you can open the rear hatch, that should be good even in the summer. However, I would monitor it closely until you were satisfied.

Betcha can't wait!

Pat

[Dawgfan]

I just ordered an EF2400iS tri-fuel. They quote 3 to 4 weeks on delivery. They were expecting a delivery from Yamaha any day.
We want to do some camping in some NPS mountain campgrounds that don't have hookups.
I'm planning to use it from the pickup bed and store it in the toolbox.

[nabozny]

Originally Posted by Boondocker

Im about to pull the trigger on the Yamaha ef 2400is with propane conversion from US Carburator. Anyone have this unit? Does anyone know what the change is from the EU to the EI serries? And who has done business with this company? Here is the link: EF2400is

thanks

I would steer clear of them! Here is my complaint letter to them

Six Year Saga Finally Resolved

My father, brother and I purchased a tri-fuel Yamaha generator from you in October of 2008 for our partial year cabin use. Upon initial receipt we had a very difficult time getting the device started on propane fuel. During the week of install we spent no less than 25 hours installing and messing with the load lock to get the device to start effectively and run at peak. In the end we settled for running at peak and lived with the hard starting due to lack of fuel and waiting for it to go through the regulator. We also bought a service policy as my father was concerned about the tri fuel set up and how it would work.
My father has been doing most of the communication with you regarding the fact that this thing wasn’t working right from the beginning of ownership. During the 1st year of the service policy he asked to get a spare starter as he felt this could be a point of failure (This was refused). He had numerous calls to your tech support and engineering to try to drive to a fix. To no avail! During my father’s visits to the cabin I would spend several hours a week with him trying to trouble shoot it from a phone call. A year and a half in you guys sent him a replacement regulator with a needle seat priming mechanism on the front and stated that this was designed and developed to fix the hard starting conditions (Experienced 10-15 seconds of cranking the starter in order to get it going). Your paperwork stated that this new regulator set up was put on a machine in your shop and tested and performed perfectly (There is no way for this had been tested on a cold start as you will see by our findings). My father replaced the original regulator with the new regulator and nothing changed. On a cold start it still exhibited 10-15 second of starter cranking to get propane in to the carb. So for the entire six years of ownership we have spent countless hours to try to get this thing running right. Completely ridiculous to get vacation or time off and get to go to the cabin only to experience the headache of having to constantly mess with this generator to get it started. During this time we have ruined two batteries as a result of the excessive cranking in order to start.
This past October 2014 my father was at the cabin with my two sons and experienced the straw that broke the camel’s back. The starter broke! So now after spending $250 dollars in batteries we are forced to buy a starter for $498. So this starter went out in its sixth year with less than 360 hours on the machine. This too is ridiculous and is a direct result of your faulty design! When we ordered the starter from the Yamaha store the tech advised that he has NEVER replaced a starter on this model of generator EF6600.
My father, brother and I had one more trip planned in November. We had no choice but to order the starter and incur this expense. We installed the starter and it performed as designed, but still required excessive cranking.
I arrived at the cabin right after the new starter was installed and now while on site I am trying to understand why your redesigned regulator/primer is not working. I have spent 30 years in manufacturing and as I was investigating your fix it was obvious to me that the front mounted needle and seat could not be providing early fuel for the cold start. Now mind you that my father had called several times talking to your techs and engineers and they ensured him if the needle and seat was turned out 2.5 turns it would work fine (Even though the documentation states 1 turn). Upon my inspection it was apparent there was no early fuel flow happening and tech comments were not true, there was NO change on cold/hot starting with any change on the needle seat adjustment. If you look at the attached picture you will find that the inlet nipple is drilled and tapped into a location on the brass T that when the load lock is set correctly the nipple is blocked by the load/lock bolt inside the T.
Root Cause:
I would say the root cause of this happened when the T was drilled/tapped for the nipple it was loaded into the drill press fixture backwards so it was drilled on the load lock/bolt side. I believe you would want the nipple inlet away from the load/lock bolt side for free flow gas (RED Arrow) from the primer system. If oriented 180 degrees opposite in the fixture the nipple would be where the red arrow is. See picture below

After disassembly it was evident that the flow into the nipple/T (BLUE Arrow) through the small hose above was blocked by the load/lock bolt and no gas could enter no matter how many turns on the needle seat. I tried to reverse the T but the threads were different from the 3/8” pipe thread on the left vs. the machine threaded bolt.
The Fix:
In order to permanently fix the unit we will need a T where the nipple is drilled/tapped closer to the pipe thread side so there is no chance of the Load/Lock bolt to block the opening when set properly (RED Arrow).
Field Fix:
In order to test our theory we utilized the original T (with no nipple tapped into the top) and had to purchase some extra fittings (YELLOW Arrow) and flow gas through two T’s in order to get unobstructed flow through the primer solenoid and small gas tube.

After completion of our field fix we set the needle seat to 1 turn (As documentation stated) and upon cold start if fired up in 1-2 seconds of cranking the starter. Subsequently we have fine-tuned the load/lock and the generator runs perfectly under load and the primer needle seat is about ½ turn and generator fires up within 2 seconds.
It amazes me how one wrong machined T on your part completely eliminated your fix from working. I can’t tell you how much frustration, wasted time and effort we experienced over 6 years of ownership, while constantly working on the generator after spending an initial $2812 on Invoice #9649 dated 10/7/2008 with you for product that DID NOT perform. Plus $498 for a replacement starter (that has no history of ever being replaced in the field) and $250 in 2 batteries worn out.
I have to say I am expecting you to send me a new load/lock T where the nipple is drilled/tapped on the proper side and some form of financial help for the extra $750 dollars we had to spend due to the faulty initial design and interim fix that DID NOT work.
In the end after fixing the product with the field fix last week I am happy that our field design worked and now the product works as it should have 6 years ago.
Please advise, on how you will remedy our issues.


Sorry pics wouldn't copy over

After 2 months of following this up they refuse to remedy our losses and issue

[Wayne&Sam]

Bummer. I've had my 2400i trip-fuel since 2007 and never had a problem.

[ROBERT CROSS]

And I've had our Honda dual fuel since 2007, still putt'n great!!

Bob