Anybody want to try this on their fresh polish job?

[Archersfin]

Look at post #11 in this thread for flour use. http://www.airforums.com/forums/f441...ing-46132.html

[Becky B.]

I'm sure they have glycerin at Walgreens or CVS or some other drug store. I used to use it to make bubbles for my kids when they were little. I might even have some......a 4th panel! I'll try it out. I'm also going to give the whole AS a bath of Rain-X like Dave Park did. And then I might powder some of it with flour. I think I'll have to use post-its to remember what I have, where!

[garry]

Thank you Archersfin for that link.

It was a few years back (2004) when I last polished and I remember the hated water spots were a pain to deal with.
I also remember there are some waxes that will actually dim the shine.

Turtle Wax (paste) I found would last longer and did not dim the shine. I waxed it once a year until 2007 when our son inherited the AS.
It has not been washed or waxed since and still looks pretty good.

[Gene]

One of the few things I learned in college freshman chemistry was that glycerin and black powder combined go boom. Some of my friends like to perform informal experiments with this when they weren't drinking.

This has nothing to do with this discussion unless you use black powder to polish.

Carry on…

Gene

[Archersfin]

I talked with Tom at Nuvite and posed this same question to him. His response was there is nothing that you can do to prevent water spots on a Polished Airstream, but to use "NU-Finish" in the Orange bottle will help. Should last up to 6 months between waxing's. This product is available in most Auto Part's stores. Believe me this is on my shopping list now.

[Becky B.]

Originally Posted by Archersfin

I talked with Tom at Nuvite and posed this same question to him. His response was there is nothing that you can do to prevent water spots on a Polished Airstream, but to use "NU-Finish" in the Orange bottle will help. Should last up to 6 months between waxing's. This product is available in most Auto Part's stores. Believe me this is on my shopping list now.

Not to be a party pooper or anything, but I tried Nu-Finish on my '76 and it clouded the mirrored finish. Maybe someone else would have different results.

[Archersfin]

Good information Becky. Experience is the best teacher. Guess my quest is still on for now.
Thanks for stopping me before I wasted more money.

[Wabbiteer]

I swore off Nu-Finish back in 1980 on my 1971 Pinto - and it keeps coming back at me every few years on different cars not owned by me...

Nu-Finish: Made the top spot for Consumers Reports' automotive polishes, BUT that said it turns into gum after about six months and makes for 200% more work and 200% more wax used applying the next coating since the new wax solvent gets expended cutting & cleaning the old gooey wax off which is extreme elbow grease effort EVEN doing a two-by-two area at a time.

Rated great simply because it slimed on the thickest coating that was still measurable in the CR tests or something.

[Becky B.]

Originally Posted by bwaysteve

Being a photographer I used to use a solution of water and glyceryn to prevent my negs from water spotting.I wonder what would happen if someone tried to spray glycerin on the shell and wipe off on a small spot to see how long it lasts.When water hits it it sheets off,but I don't know how long it would stay on the wax.Worth at try.

Tried some glycerin today on half of my propane cover. Bad, bad, bad. One big nasty smear. Never mind that one!

[dbj216]

I smeared some nu finish on an old mirror. It did not cloud up like I expected. I also tried some polymer sealant on the old mirror, and it didn't cloud up either. So why do these products tend to cloud up my polish job?

I think it may have been the fact that I did not have all the polish residue cleaned off before applied the nu finish. I read our understood cleaning the Nuvite residue with corn starch after the last pass was a good method. The Nuvite residue tends to protect the aluminum somewhat.

So I tried lots of cleaning with lacquer thinner until my towel stayed clean, not getting any more black residue. This would seamingly get me down to pure polished aluminum. Then I applied nu finish by hand (not with my orbital) and I would say I did not get the cloudy, or dimished reflectivity that I experienced before. Maybe the nu finish and Nuvite polish residue reacted in some way to cloud up the polished aluminum? I found using nu finish sparingly is better. Like polish, a little is better than too much. I will second coat it before winter and see what happens.

I think Nuvite, or someone, ought to develop a sealant for polished aluminum. I would think these modern polymer sealants would be a good place to start instead of wax. I think of nu finish being more silicone based as it was initially advertised as a car wax for old, faded paint. We crazy people who spend $$$ and hours stripping and polishing these old Airstreams need that final step after polishing called sealing, or protecting the aluminum from corrosion. I think of water spots as the beginning of the aluminum corroding back to the dull gray. I think products made for car paint would be a whole lot different that a product made for pure aluminum.

So Becky, we are all waiting for the results of your testing...

David

[2airishuman]

quite a mess u kids are making...

as noted by many veterans of polish'n ...

there is NOT much u can do to prevent what is being called "water spots"

the ONE THING that will work is RE plasti-Kote-ing.

and that stuff might last 3-4 years if not abused.
_________

these 'spots' aren't minerals from rain or simply acid rain, or dust.

these spots are REACTIONS between the water and the aluminum.

in other words basic oxidation/corrosion at the primary earliest stages.

thats WHY the 'spots' don't simply wipe off, they are IN the metal and PART of the metal.
_________

a 'mirror' finish on a polished stream isn't a mirror which is GLASS.

the mirrored finish on aluminum, if LOOKED AT with a microscope

is still very porous/pitted/raw metal, depending on type of alloy.

its not glass so comparisons to glass for product testing are useless.

the polished metal still has PORES on the surface (so does glass btw but they are much smaller than in metal)
_________

as one MOVES through the polishing process (and grades of compounding)

the goal (after getting the obvious crud and pits off) is a progressively smoother surface.

the smoother the surface the smaller the pores, and the LESS raw metal there is to oxidize or react with water.

but it's still never truly as SMOOTH as glass or chrome or even automotive clearcoats.

and the polished metal is never really UNIFORMLY smooth (some areas have bigger pores or deeper pits)

after polishing the "magic grail" is...

finding something that will BLOCK water and PREVENT reactions (oxidation/corrosion) with stuff in the air.

so far the ONLY stuff that does this reliably and LONG TERM is PLASTI-kote.
___________

briefly, flours (ground up grains) do 2 things....

#1. they absorb/lift that last bit of BLACK STUFF from polishing solvents...

#2. they deposit a TINY bit of grain FATS (oil) in/on the metal...

1+2=

#3... the starches, proteins and fats chemically REACT a bit with the aluminum to get IN way (delay) oxidation.

does the 'black stuff' every really stop when polishing? for most NO as each new rag will still get black.

so flour is sorta like a 'disposable rag' made of fine/tiny bits and those bits absorb black and wipe off.

this 'brightens' the aluminum a bit and deposits a FINE LAYER of powder into the PORES in the aluminum.

the 'flour deposits' have proteins, starches and a tiny bit of oil that plugs the small pores leaves a coating and so on...

depending on WHAT floor (ground up stuff) is used MORE or LESS fats/oils will be left behind.

this is WHY folks discuss 'corn starch' vs pastry floor vs self rising flour vs oat flour...and so on.
_________

one could wipe SPAM, a CHOCOLATE bar, a chunk of cocoa butter and slice of avocado on bare polished aluminum...

and then determines WHICH edible gives the LONGEST resistance to oxidation....

(hint the product with the LEAST WATER, hardest FAT and most NEUTRAL pH, might work best)
_________

the good/bad outcomes using various "automotive waxes, sealants, dressings and so on....

will DEPEND on how much WATER is in each and how much FAT/oil/wax, the pH

and how the 'chemistry' of that product reacts with the alloy.
_________

how ANY given product works will also depend on WHAT POLISHING COMPOUND and MATERIAL was used on the metal....

because the POLISHING PROCESS leaves STUFF on/IN the aluminum pores

and that stuff ALSO reacts with goops applied in a good or bad way.
_________

because of the clean air/environmental regulations,

AUTOMOBILE coatings have largely replaced the solvents (vehicles) in their products with WATER or other 'safer' things...

so ANY of you trying WATER BASED waxes/coatings will get poorer results...

clouding, staining, streaking and so on is a RESULT of the goop reacting with the metal (or plugging the pores)...

multi purpose products (polish/clean/shine/wax/protect) have more ways to REACT with the metal and CLOUD the shine.

PURE carnauba wax (palm tree LEAF extract) is very HARD durable stuff but it's also slightly acidic and may react with an aluminum alloy...

Carnauba wax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

but like the other plant/animal/mineral fats/oils it can provide protection IF properly mixed.
___________

simply WIPING the polished surface with mineral oil will delay oxidation/spotting...

till the OIL EVAPORATES.

waxes don't evaporate as QUICKLY as oil but still do eventually.

SYNTHETIC waxes might evaporate even slower and therefor last LONGER...

but any AUTOMOTIVE finish used needs to have the RIGHT CHEMISTRY not to react with the aluminum.
___________

the MYTHICAL GOOP would be something that...

-goes on CLEAR and doesn't optically cloud the shine...

-goes on without reacting with the metal to form OXIDATION...

-'bonds' with the metal to plug pores and stabilize the oxidative process...

-goes on easily (hand or buffer) and yet LASTS a long time...

-doesn't break down to get UGLY as it ages...

-protects or resisting environmental attack on the surfaces...

-is free or cheap to buy and use...

-is totally safe for the trailer, the humans and the environment (in that order)

-smells good and makes the USER look younger...
_________

mix baby oil, cocoa butter, bacon fat and coconut oil...

this might really be the stuff!

or substitute olive oil for the 'mediterranean formulae'

cheers
2air'

[2airishuman]

btw the AA wheel product listed in the OP...

is being used on a CLEARCOATED AND PAINTED alloy wheel, it's NOT bare naked metal.

in fact the SILVER color on that wheel might actually be paint, and THAT paint also has a clear coat.

he is NOT demonstrating METAL CLEANING he's cleaning a PAINTED alloy wheel.
________

so that product has NO value on uncoated alclad or typical alluminum alloys...

it might work ok on chrome or CLEARCOATED rims or plastics or even PAINTED stuff...
__________

((clear coat IS paint)) while plastikote is NOT paint.

__________

auto detailing product companies have the GOAL of convincing use to BUY more stuff!

so taking a 'paint cleaner/shiner' and repackaging it as a 'WHEEL cleaner/shiner' means...

we will BUY 2 BOTTLES of stuff for one purpose...

even when the stuff in the 2 bottles is basically the same.

detailing products=the cosmetic industry.

how many things are IN yer makeup bag VS how many things the vendors would LIKE YOU TO HAVE in the same bag ???

cheers
2air'

[dbj216]

Zair,

Thank you very much for your fine symposium on polished aluminum surfaces and the chemistry of corrosion and corrosion prevention. I think it explains the polish delema perfectly. Had I read it before I stripped my trailer, I may have replaced the rest of my belly pan instead.

So now I am an aluminum slave. I'll be standing on my scafolding all summer, every summer running my polisher knowing the effort is for naught.

Zair, help us here. Invent a "plastic kote" in a bottle that will keep our hours of hard work from reverting back to nature's dull gray.

David

[Becky B.]

Originally Posted by dbj216

Zair,

Thank you very much for your fine symposium on polished aluminum surfaces and the chemistry of corrosion and corrosion prevention. I think it explains the polish delema perfectly. Had I read it before I stripped my trailer, I may have replaced the rest of my belly pan instead.

So now I am an aluminum slave. I'll be standing on my scafolding all summer, every summer running my polisher knowing the effort is for naught.

Zair, help us here. Invent a "plastic kote" in a bottle that will keep our hours of hard work from reverting back to nature's dull gray.

David

What he said. Only, I'd still do it cause I love the way it looks (at least for a couple of months).

By the way, I've come to the conclusion that the MacGuires works the best anyhow. I did flour one side of the trailer for the heck of it. Maybe I'll try wheat on the other side! I'd love to clear coat, but don't want to obcess over every scratch!

[Archersfin]

Here are two products that were listed in the polishing forum.
MICRO-POXY AIRCRAFT CLEARCOAT from Aircraft Spruce
Xxponet - Home cont'd
The xxponet seems like the better of the two, but the price is outrageous.
Anyone heard of these?

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Archersfin

Here are two products...

there's a thread on that crap, here...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f441...wax-48876.html

and until we get a msds (or the contents) it will remain on the crap* list...

the new website (xx...) is basically useless, a few lines of hype and nothing else.

it would APPEAR this is just another POLYMER SEALANT...

and there are loads of those already available that are KNOWN and have established records.

so i'm not buying ANY of that stuff to try since i've already got PROVEN paint sealants to use...

and i'm not buying their HYPE either, just tell us whatz in the soup!
__________

based on the totally VAGUE website info it appears their sealant product MIGHT contain a 'durability extender' agent...

these are magic potions, commonly referred to as "boosters"...

can be added in TINY amounts to existing sealants or waxes to EXTEND the time between REapplications...

essentially they strengthen the bonds (and crosslinking) in a bottle poly sealant or wax...

so that it lasts LONGER on the PAINT under some conditions.

again this ADDITIVE is widely available and can be added to a LOTTA products...

http://www.polycharger.com/

http://www.autogeek.net/polycharger-how-it-works.html

i use these but add them to KNOWN products with predictable results.

so it's not quite the internet magic being sold above...

cheers
2air'


*(Contains Random Anonymous Particles...)

[Archersfin]

2Air....: Judging from the number of posts you have you ought to be a looong time member of this site. Please let us know the magic formula you use to keep the water spots reduced on your Airstream. I'm sure you have the same problem we do if you have a polished Airstream.
Sorry for the previous post, I was just posting information from this site. I did not mean to offend anyone or pull anyone's chain. We are all in this together. That is what this site is all about.

[ALANSD]

It is a fact that a shined trailer takes a lot of work no matter what.
I use the auto windshield cleaner that Rob Baker mentioned on th VAP as an in-between touch up. It worked well but I still needed a seious repolish touch up after a year.
I tried some aluminum cleaning products from a chemical company and was told there is no magic bullet for keeping up the mirror level shine.

[bwaysteve]

Originally Posted by beckybillrae

Tried some glycerin today on half of my propane cover. Bad, bad, bad. One big nasty smear. Never mind that one!

It will definitely smear if you use it not diluted.I think I used to dilute it something like 50 to1 for negs.The glycerin is heavier than the water and the water sheets off with a squeegie.Sort of like the non spotting rinse in a DIY carwash.I would try it with a spray bottle,wipe down.It will leave some of the glycerin residue for the next time it rains.

[2airishuman]

glycerine is ENTIRELY soluble (miscible) in water.

it will not provide a barrier against water reaching the aluminum.

it WILL however slow the EVAPORATION of water from the surface and HOLD the water on the skin.

in fact glycerine is used in soaps, cosmetics, moisturizers, hair products and many medications...

because it will ATTRACT and HOLD water. it is used as a MOISTURIZER and humectant.

it is added 2 cigarettes/tobacco products BECAUSE it keeps the tobacco MOIST...

or adds moisture to the SMOKE.
__________

coating the stream in glycerine is silly...

unless the goal is keeping the surface moist.

r u worried about dry, cracking, flaky aluminum?

if so try rub'n her down in glycerin.

it's also a very effective laxative when used as an anal suppository...

has your 'stream been constipated lately?

http://www.dow.com/glycerine/index.htm

cheers
2air'