Disc brake discussion

[dznf0g]

kelvin, I wouldn't count on the installers of your new actuator bleeding properly. They surely introduced air in the line at the actuator. Assuming they bled the system well after that, unless they fully understand the caliper setup, most of the air they introduced is now captive in your inner caliper half.

[Ag&Au]

First of all, I have many years experience using electric trailer brakes and zero experience using electric over hydraulic trailer brakes. However after reading about all the minor annoyances people report with electric/hydraulic brakes I would not consider "upgrading". I have never had a brake problem with electric brakes that would not have also been a problem with E/H brakes. In other words they have all been in the wiring that would be prior to the actuator in an E/H system. I have never felt a need for any more additional stopping power in any electric brake trailer with the wiring intact to the trailer. The only annoying problem I have had in the Airstream was an improperly (at the factory) tightened (as in not) nut on the post where the umbilical cord ties into the trailer wiring.

Anyway, my point is: I would not recommend the change if you are not experiencing any braking problems, or have some problems, but have not thoroughly checked the controller and its settings and also the wiring and connections thoroughly.

Yes, properly working and adjusted disk brakes work better, but do you need better than you currently have?

Ken

[dznf0g]

Ken, the comparison is like comparing an old car with 4 wheel drum brakes to the next gen cars (60s) that had front discs. Drums stopped the car. Discs stopped the car more predictably and in a shorter distance...and just "feel" better. I've had both electric and E/H brakes on trailers and E/H are superior performers.

Both kinds have their issues, just different issues and different solutions and differing complexity to solutions. Discs are worth it for me.

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Ken, the comparison is like comparing an old car with 4 wheel drum brakes to the next gen cars (60s) that had front discs. Drums stopped the car. Discs stopped the car more predictably and in a shorter distance...and just "feel" better. I've had both electric and E/H brakes on trailers and E/H are superior performers.

Both kinds have their issues, just different issues and different solutions and differing complexity to solutions. Discs are worth it for me.

I will not say that I would not say the same thing if I tried it, but I learned a long time ago to not fix problems I don't know I have.

(Unless it involves some toys I want to buy and need an excuse)

Ken

[dznf0g]

Ken, we're on the same page, but I had maintenance/repair issues on my old trailer I don't and won't have with discs as well. It's a trade off, but the performance difference is noticeable.

[SteveH]

Have a friend in our unit with a 2000 34', which has E/H discs (probably some of the first ones), and they are single piston calipers. He has had only one issue with his brakes in all these years, and that was a leaking line. He reports no delay. Not sure how you can measure or state NO delay, but anyway I think the four piston calipers are a POS for our purposes. We don't need Corvette, race track type braking performance, we just need the damn things to work, and work every time we step on the pedal, when we step on the pedal.

We towed home last July from Idaho with no trailer brakes after the Actibrake failed, and here I am waiting for a replacement Dexter actuator to get here. Hope the next one has more than a five month life span.

[dznf0g]

Steve, was it a warranty replacement? I think if/when my Actibrake goes, I am going to get the Tuson to go with my Direclink....I think you went Direclink too, IIRC? BTW, I need to start a new thread on the GREAT interaction I had with Tuson's engineer.

Maybe, I'm just fortunate, but my system has worked predictably and reliably for 7 years (I've had for 4 years). Still has original Actibrake, I've had no "short" brake hose issues and no controller issues (other than when I picked up the AS and had no idea that my circa 1994 Kelsey Hayes controller wouldn't work with E/H). I know I just jinxed myself, but mechanically I can't complain. All I've done is flushed and replaced the brake fluid, and worked out an unnecessarily complex bleeding procedure. I also tested two iterations of Dexter's anti-rattle clip prototypes, which I now understand come on their axle assemblies.

[SteveH]

No, I have the P3.

[KJRitchie]

[QUOTE=dznf0g;1548337] I have found the only way to "easily" bleed the inner half is to loosen the supply line so it leaks very slowly....somewhere between a weep and a leak and watch until no bubbles come out. Then proceed to the normal bleeding method for the outer half. I'm still not sure you get all the air that way.
QUOTE]

Are there two lines to each caliper or just one? If one, I would loosen the line, watch for any bubbles and if there are any wait for good fluid flow then tighten up while under pressure. Then go to the bleed valve and bleed that valve.

I've bled car brakes before, a long time ago.

Trailer is in storage and its darn cold now. I'll have to wait for spring.

Almost tempted to sell my AS and go new SOB the issues I've had to contend with.

Kelvin

[Pahaska]

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

Is it difficult to bleed the brakes on an Airstream with disc hydraulic brakes. Maybe I need to do this as I have some delay.
Kelvin

I used a vacuum pump to bleed my brakes when I replaced the pump. That way, I was able to do it myself. You can get vacuum bleed pumps at most auto stores.

You need to remove the wheels to more easily get to the bleed valves for the front axle. I just laid down and slipped under the trailer to reach the rear bleeders. Use the top bleeder. The Kodiak calipers have a 2-piece bleed valve and only the inner portion of the valve needs to be loosened to bleed them. Obviously, the top valve is where you bleed the calipers.

It is recommended to bleed each caliper twice, but I have good brake response after bleeding each caliper only once. I pulled about 1/2 to 3/4 cup of fluid out of each caliper and threw it away. In that way, I pretty much replaced the original fluid. Make sure the pump never goes dry while bleeding!

[dznf0g]

Part of the discussion I had with the Tuson engineer surrounded the delay and my belief that the only way to cure it is to have a high pressure accumulator incorporated in the actuator, like the automotive world. He stated that it has to do with the designed components in the motor and pump and whether they spend the bucks to have a virtually instantaneous 0 -100% pressure rise, when called upon to do so. He claims Tuson actuators have an "instantaneous" pressure rise from 0 - 100%, when used in conjunction with the Direclink and with the OBDII communication of what you are commanding with the pedal. Of course that assumes no air in the system!!!! Dead horse, anyone?

I can't confirm until I swap out my Actibrake, which I won't until it fails. BTW, I have <1/2 second delay after properly bleeding.....but I still wonder if I have a bit of air in the caliper.

[dznf0g]

re. bleeding above. Neither method will work here. You have the supply line which goes into the top of the inboard caliper half. You have a connector line between the two halves at the BOTTOM!!!!!!!!! of the calipers. And finally a bleeder at the top of the outboard half. Air trapped at the top of the inner half will not vacuum nor pressure out....unless you turn the caliper upside down. (Part of the somewhat dangerous method I said I wouldn't recommend publicly.)

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by Pahaska

I used a vacuum pump to bleed my brakes when I replaced the pump. That way, I was able to do it myself. You can get vacuum bleed pumps at most auto stores.

You need to remove the wheels to more easily get to the bleed valves for the front axle. I just laid down and slipped under the trailer to reach the rear bleeders. Use the top bleeder. The Kodiak calipers have a 2-piece bleed valve and only the inner portion of the valve needs to be loosened to bleed them. Obviously, the top valve is where you bleed the calipers.

It is recommended to bleed each caliper twice, but I have good brake response after bleeding each caliper only once. I pulled about 1/2 to 3/4 cup of fluid out of each caliper and threw it away. In that way, I pretty much replaced the original fluid. Make sure the pump never goes dry while bleeding!

John,
I sure hope I can do all the things you do, after I've aged another 11 years.

(Although, I married a younger woman, just in case)

Ken

[Pahaska]

Originally Posted by Ag&Au

John,
I sure hope I can do all the things you do, after I've aged another 11 years.
Ken

I think that once a person quits doing something, they never start up again. It is a slippery slope. I'm getting slower, but I still do nearly everything I used to do.

... and my child bride is 10 years younger.

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by Pahaska

I used a vacuum pump to bleed my brakes when I replaced the pump. That way, I was able to do it myself. You can get vacuum bleed pumps at most auto stores.

You need to remove the wheels to more easily get to the bleed valves for the front axle. I just laid down and slipped under the trailer to reach the rear bleeders. Use the top bleeder. The Kodiak calipers have a 2-piece bleed valve and only the inner portion of the valve needs to be loosened to bleed them. Obviously, the top valve is where you bleed the calipers.

It is recommended to bleed each caliper twice, but I have good brake response after bleeding each caliper only once. I pulled about 1/2 to 3/4 cup of fluid out of each caliper and threw it away. In that way, I pretty much replaced the original fluid. Make sure the pump never goes dry while bleeding!

My friend has the Kodiak calipers, and they are simple, single piston, single reservoir calipers with one bleed valve.

Wish I had them.

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by Pahaska

I think that once a person quits doing something, they never start up again. It is a slippery slope. I'm getting slower, but I still do nearly everything I used to do.

... and my child bride is 10 years younger.

That sounds like good sound device. So far the only things I've quit doing are things I didn't like doing in the first place. I'm the big picture guy in our relationship. Susan's has the patience for the detail work.

In other words: I mow the lawn, and she takes care of the flower beds.

Ken

[J. Morgan]

I have a lot of experience with trailers equipped with electric brakes, disk/elec/hyd brakes, and drum/elec/hyd brakes. (I own several trailers of all three types that are used daily as I type)

The disk are superior, with the drums following up closely, followed by the electrics.

IMHO, the electrics are more than good enough for a trailer no heavier than an Airstreams.

All three varieties will work well enough to stop the wheels of the trailer on demand.


1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow

[J. Morgan]

Fwiw, time and experience has demonstrated to me that the Dexter actuators are the most reliable and economical over time.


1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow

[AtomicNo13]

I have the Carlisle 1600 and the Kodiak stainless calipers. They are a single pin design. When kept clean and properly lubed they provide perfect performance! They bleed very easily.

As I have mentioned elsewhere on these forums, I experience nearly instant braking, I consider this zero delay or lag.
I use the P3 controller, ceramic pads, dot4 fluid..... Serviced every spring which is about 50000 miles for me.
I have identical systems on both my Classic 34' and my PanAm 34'.

[slowmover]

The test of trailer brakes is how well they can stop the combined rig with no use of tow vehicle service brakes.