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Old 12-06-2014, 01:24 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Bart, the Direclink does monitor, and act upon, the OBDII data stream. .... I can't say it for sure, but I do know the Direclink feels much better than any other controller I have used. I have not experienced the MaxBrake, but understand it performed very well.
I'd be happy to use the Direclink, but my 1996 diesel doesn't have this port.

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Old 12-06-2014, 01:37 PM   #156
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Regarding delay in these systems, it will always take some time for the pump to move the pads out to the discs. This takes very little time ( a fraction of a second) so long as no additional air is in the system. Any air pockets will result in some delay; the more air, the more the delay.

The source of the delay with air is due to the limited amount of power from the electric motor available to actuate the brakes; it takes time for that power to compress the air in the lines to the 500->1500 psi needed to stop the trailer.

A vacuum or compressed air system would be less sensitive to such delays, since the amount of power instantly available would be significantly higher.

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Old 12-06-2014, 01:45 PM   #157
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I'd be happy to use the Direclink, but my 1996 diesel doesn't have this port.

- Bart
Oh, yeah, I forgot.
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Old 12-06-2014, 01:48 PM   #158
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Regarding delay in these systems, it will always take some time for the pump to move the pads out to the discs. This takes very little time ( a fraction of a second) so long as no additional air is in the system. Any air pockets will result in some delay; the more air, the more the delay.

The source of the delay with air is due to the limited amount of power from the electric motor available to actuate the brakes; it takes time for that power to compress the air in the lines to the 500->1500 psi needed to stop the trailer.

A vacuum or compressed air system would be less sensitive to such delays, since the amount of power instantly available would be significantly higher.

- Bart
A high pressure hydraulic accumulator like autos have (hydraboost, etc.) is the ultimate answer here, but none of the actuators have them. Tuson engineer said it's not needed with theirs....I'm skeptical.
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Old 12-06-2014, 04:42 PM   #159
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Got some work done today. Not 100% yet, or I would have done it all. Installed the new actuator, and built a cable with a start button on one end so I can bleed the brakes by myself. Need a couple more fittings before I can install the residual valve.

While I was under there looking around, I did notice that on my trailer with the actuator where the factory installed it, the output of the actuator is lower than the input to the calipers when the trailer is level. Make of that what you will.
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Old 12-06-2014, 05:18 PM   #160
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Folks,

I thought maybe if I added a refresher about my testing and observations.

This is from my post Disc Brake Lag vs. Pressure 9/12.

"It is a simple 5 second shot of the PSI gage ramping up. Unfortunately we do have one variable in this, how much of a request for braking did my better half initiate from the MaxBrake slider control? Sorry. But using video editing software I was able to view a timeline from the audio track showing the audible start of the pump soundtrack vs. the response on the gage.
From the start of the audio it was only about 0.5 second to 200 PSI. and it peaked at about 700 PSI."


It is referencing a video of a pressure gauge and AFAIK the only documented test from an owner demonstrating just how quickly this system does ramp up .
I went through my files and found the original text to accompany my video test. I didn't post this as I was reserving it for some more actual driving feedback about the brakes.

" OK, what does 200-400 PSI braking feel like? The Carlisle is rated at 1,600 PSI and wed be flat spotted and trailing smoke long before that. This summer (2012) we went to the upstate of SC actually just south of the Palmetto Cove campground on SC 11 going up and down its scenic foothills. I let the rig start rolling downhill letting a bit of gravity take over and then got into the brakes, youd be surprised how much 300 400 PSI of braking really is, feels like we dropped anchor. You can get a rough PSI on the MaxBrake controller display."

So creating 200 PSI in about 0.5 sec as reported based on my actual use and driving is a lot of near instantaneous braking power.

Since my brake work of Sept 2012 I have done nothing else to my brakes other than enjoy them including running SB on I-77 down (Fancy Gap about a 7 mile 7% grade IIRC) from the Smokies coming back from a trip to Virginia Highland Haven.

Anyone considering modifications, sure would be interesting if you could quantify your pre mod baseline vs. modifications to see if you made any improvements. and please consider that just by bleeding your system completely post mods should make an improvement in your response that MAY NOT be due to your modifications. Tricky, ain't it.

Gary
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Old 12-06-2014, 11:15 PM   #161
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Thanks, Gary.

And to others for the contributions on this long overdue thread.

I'll really feel I've gotten somewhere when antilock discs are on my TT.

The Peterbilt I recently got out of has front discs. There is no substitute for their consistent, reliable performance.
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Old 12-06-2014, 11:23 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
A high pressure hydraulic accumulator like autos have (hydraboost, etc.) is the ultimate answer here, but none of the actuators have them. Tuson engineer said it's not needed with theirs....I'm skeptical.
Hydraulic accumulators store their energy in either a compressed spring (rare) or compressed gas, typically nitrogen.

A powerful voice coil coupled to a conventional vacuum boosted master cylinder + a vacuum reservoir and electric vacuum pump would make a pretty nice actuator capable of very fast response, and would a pretty reliable unit.

- Bart
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Old 12-07-2014, 07:25 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by barts View Post
Hydraulic accumulators store their energy in either a compressed spring (rare) or compressed gas, typically nitrogen.

A powerful voice coil coupled to a conventional vacuum boosted master cylinder + a vacuum reservoir and electric vacuum pump would make a pretty nice actuator capable of very fast response, and would a pretty reliable unit.

- Bart
That's pretty much what the original disc systems AS used in the 70s? was, wasn't it.....without any modern electronics? I guess they worked, but look HUGE!
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Old 12-07-2014, 07:28 AM   #164
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Got some work done today. Not 100% yet, or I would have done it all. Installed the new actuator, and built a cable with a start button on one end so I can bleed the brakes by myself. Need a couple more fittings before I can install the residual valve.

While I was under there looking around, I did notice that on my trailer with the actuator where the factory installed it, the output of the actuator is lower than the input to the calipers when the trailer is level. Make of that what you will.
I'm not sure what to make of that, without knowing the internals of the actuator....and scratching my head trying to reconcile what I know about a sealed hydraulic system and potential drainback.
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Old 12-07-2014, 07:31 AM   #165
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Very tricky indeed, Gary. I am unfamiliar with the Maxbrake, but isn't is displaying the TV hydraulic pressure? Or trailer?
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Old 12-07-2014, 07:52 AM   #166
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I'm not sure what to make of that, without knowing the internals of the actuator....and scratching my head trying to reconcile what I know about a sealed hydraulic system and potential drainback.
I have to call Dexter in the morning to get them to send a pick-up order for the actuator that went belly up, and at that time I'm going to ask to talk with an engineer and find out if the thing has a residual valve built in.

I thought I could install it easily and have the flexibility of going back easily if I didn't like it, but such is not the case. Spare tire is in the way. I have to cut and re-flare one end of the tubing, making it necessary to replace it should I want to remove the residual pressure valve.
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Old 12-07-2014, 08:24 AM   #167
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Rich,

I've seen used MaxBrake's sell over on Turbo Diesel Register in very short order. The Dodge Cummins crowd will snap 'em up.

The display shows actual TV brake circuit pressure. I just came back from my truck. Engine off, I touched the MaxBrake slider waking it up. Then I pushed on the brake pedal, the display shows TV brake circuit pressure.

Folks,

I can't speak for any other system, but can your EOH and brake controller do this:

Rig hooked up, engine running, vehicle stationary. Push the brake pedal slightly and the actuator starts, low output. Push pedal harder and the actuator ramps up you HEAR it is loading up higher and higher pressure. The controller varies the system pressure according to your rigs actual TV pressure via the hydraulic pressure transducer that is tapped into the TV brake circuit. FWIW the transducer is made by Honeywell and all connections are the same type of brake fittings that the brake system is made with, no issues.

Does any other type of controller system do this?

I'd also like to offer a reminder to anyone looking at reworking any of their system. INSPECT YOUR PISTON DUST SEALS FOR DAMAGE.

Damaged dust seals can allow water in. This water may become trapped and guess what, it can or will create rust between the steel caliper pistons and cast iron caliper housings. The slightest amount of rust can prevent the piston from its very small but required return stroke causing the pads to drag and possibly burning up your pads and rotor. It happened to me. I made the necessary repairs and no further issues. Dexter does offer boot and seal kits. Once you get past your 1st caliper seal and boot R&R, really pretty easy. The cleanup is the only tedious bench exercise.

I've sent some pics and details to Rich and in going thru my old files I found a video I shot of my bench test of repaired caliper halves. I actually rigged up a pickup truck pedal assembly and clutch master cylinder. This allowed me to bleed each half and do a crude bench test. I blocked each piston set from extending using a pretty stout angle iron, uh that flexed immediately. Then I added C clamps across the pistons thinking no way will it flex. On the video the system can easily flex bolted angle iron and C clamps at no more than 400 PSI. I referencing 400 PSI as a pretty realistic pressure created by a clutch hydraulic release system.

Not ever gonna claim hydraulic system engineering skills, just a bit above average DIY'er.

YMMV

Gary

Steve,

Bleeding via remote switch. This will go to 100% output, correct, its either on or off. I'd expect it can spit out a lot of fluid quickly, just keep an eye on the reservoir you do not want it to accidentally empty while bleeding. You'll get to start over as soon as it swallows air.
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Old 12-07-2014, 08:34 AM   #168
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Steve,

Bleeding via remote switch. This will go to 100% output, correct, its either on or off. I'd expect it can spit out a lot of fluid quickly, just keep an eye on the reservoir you do not want it to accidentally empty while bleeding. You'll get to start over as soon as it swallows air.
Yes, Gary, I understand this. The first time the dealer bled the brakes when doing the recall work, they did it with the emergency brake away switch because they did not have the truck. Same thing basically without the convience. However, they did such a crappy job that I had a delay of about six seconds.

I think my remote switch will be much more controllable. My objective is to be able to do it without my wife's help. We frequently have, oh let's say "difficulty" communicating when under stress.
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