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Old 05-26-2014, 07:26 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by CapriRacer View Post
Could you be a little more specific? I spent over 10 years designing tires, so I think I know a bit about about the strength in tires.
Remember those Firestone 500's in the 70's? Then you of all people should know that ST tires are an egg that cracked too. Check into why they are not on airstreams that are sold in Europe today.
Haven't you ever wondered why a ST tire runs 20 to 30 degree's hotter than a LT tire under the same conditions?
Fact is, a ST tire is a cash cow for tire company's.
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Old 05-26-2014, 08:44 AM   #44
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Is there an advantage to this over using Lynx levelers which can be used for changing tires and also used as pads for stabilizers and/or to level a trailer side to side on an unlevel campsite?

Just wondering. I have used Lynx levelers many times for removing wheels when servicing my wheel bearings - quick and easy to use. and don't take up a have amount of space when stored.

Brian.
IMHO, the Trailer Aid is very much safer than 2x4's or levelers since the Trailer Aid has a depression for the tire to sit in and won't move. Also, the bottom of the Trailer aid has 4 studs sticking out so it won't slide on you when you attempt to drive up on it. It weighs maybe 5 lbs and I keep mine in my pickup bed 24/7.
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Old 05-26-2014, 08:49 AM   #45
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There is some other reason for your trailer bounce and you are not going to solve that problem by changing tires. The ride on my rig improved radically with Michelins. I was using E rated ST tires because they were a little better at not self destructing than D's but the ride was like an oxcart and hobby horsing was much worse than with Michelins.
I switched to Michelins 4 years ago after serial blowouts with ST tires and have no plans to ever switch back regardless of Michelin's position.

Me too. I run my 16" E rated LT Michelins at 75 psi. Don't worry about what a lawyer says, they sue every body for everything, it's their nature.
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Old 05-26-2014, 09:38 AM   #46
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Might as well pipe in here on the Trailer Aid. The tire shop, in business for over 50 years where I got the Michelins and do all my tire purchases etc. Asked if I had a Trailer Aid as they don't like jacking up Travel Trailers. I did, and we used it and will use it when I have the new tires and wheels installed if I hear back from Michelin and As as I suspect I will. Trailer Aid is quick easy, safe and cheap.
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Old 05-26-2014, 10:17 AM   #47
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Thereís a lot of conflicting information about using Michelin tires on RV trailer axles. Even Michelinís product care experts give out information that is in direct conflict with Michelinís replacement tire warranty package.

Airstream sometimes uses Michelin Light Truck (LT) tires on some of their models. They will also recommend Michelinís as replacements. Does anyone know if they first cleared those fitments with Michelin? None of Michelinís LT tires are recommended for trailer axle service. The only tires they have recommended for RV service are for motorized RVs.

What happens when Airstream fits specific models with Michelin tires and then owners of other models fitted with Original Equipment ST tires decide to replace them with Michelin tires? When asked, Michelin product care reps will tell you that replacing OE ST tires with their LT tires is a misapplication and all warranty coverage will be voided.

Itís the sole responsibility of the vehicle manufacturer to fit your trailer with itís OE tires. IMO that must also include some collaboration with the tire manufacturer.

Here is the applicable Michelin warranty. Itís worth studying if you use or are thinking about using Michelin tires on your trailer.

http://www.michelinman.com/mediabin/...omise_Plan.pdf

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Old 05-26-2014, 10:51 AM   #48
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I wonder if there was a catastrophic blowout on a GYM or a whatever ST, and still within specs with death or injury, including massive trailer damage; do you think a law suit would be necessary? I have yet to hear of a tread separation on a Michelin E rated LT tire, even with the recent recall. Flats due to road debris is one thing, but tread separation while running at max psi on ST's is a formula for eventual disaster, IMHO. On my current "road trip", I have seen 4 TT's on the side of the road with a tire issue. I'd bet money they were running ST's. I really don't give a rat's rear end about what Michelin says it will warranty, I'm running them on my AS regardless. You lawyers can weasel for or against anything.
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Old 05-26-2014, 12:13 PM   #49
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I'm running my 16" michelin LT tires at 75 psi which should give me a load capacity of 2560# per tire. My 6300# trailer has a total axle load of around 5200#. With 4 tires at 2560#, that's 10,240# of capacity. I think I'm way better off with the Michelins than GYMs and I doubt I will have an opportunity to exercise the warranty so I really don't care if Michelin honors it.
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Old 05-26-2014, 12:32 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by pappy19 View Post
IMHO, the Trailer Aid is very much safer than 2x4's or levelers since the Trailer Aid has a depression for the tire to sit in and won't move. Also, the bottom of the Trailer aid has 4 studs sticking out so it won't slide on you when you attempt to drive up on it. It weighs maybe 5 lbs and I keep mine in my pickup bed 24/7.
Could be right, although I have never had a problem with using the levelers this way.

I use two sets that we have in order to make a pyramid which winds up with two levelers at the top level so it gives a fair size platform to park the wheel on.

I did worry about the levelers just sliding along the road ahead of the wheel when I attempt to drive onto them on asphalt, but they never seem to budge at all.

I generally have my wife watch as I back up onto them and signal me when to stop. So far it has worked fine!


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Old 05-26-2014, 01:52 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by BlackAces View Post
Thereís a lot of conflicting information about using Michelin tires on RV trailer axles. Even Michelinís product care experts give out information that is in direct conflict with Michelinís replacement tire warranty package.

Airstream sometimes uses Michelin Light Truck (LT) tires on some of their models. They will also recommend Michelinís as replacements. Does anyone know if they first cleared those fitments with Michelin? None of Michelinís LT tires are recommended for trailer axle service. The only tires they have recommended for RV service are for motorized RVs.

What happens when Airstream fits specific models with Michelin tires and then owners of other models fitted with Original Equipment ST tires decide to replace them with Michelin tires? When asked, Michelin product care reps will tell you that replacing OE ST tires with their LT tires is a misapplication and all warranty coverage will be voided.

Itís the sole responsibility of the vehicle manufacturer to fit your trailer with itís OE tires. IMO that must also include some collaboration with the tire manufacturer.

Here is the applicable Michelin warranty. Itís worth studying if you use or are thinking about using Michelin tires on your trailer.

http://www.michelinman.com/mediabin/...omise_Plan.pdf

BA
Tire Rack say's ( Special Trailer (ST), as well as Light Truck (LT) tires are fully rated for trailer applications. This means ST- and LT-sized tires can carry the full weight rating branded on the sidewalls when used on a trailer.) on this page.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...jsp?techid=219&
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Old 05-26-2014, 04:34 PM   #52
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What are triple axle owners saying about the Michelin retrofit? At the rate of wear on the #3 axle, I want a tire that will last a few miles.
I'm seriously thinking of trying bias plus for a go around.
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Old 05-26-2014, 05:05 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Wingeezer View Post
Could be right, although I have never had a problem with using the levelers this way.

I use two sets that we have in order to make a pyramid which winds up with two levelers at the top level so it gives a fair size platform to park the wheel on.

I did worry about the levelers just sliding along the road ahead of the wheel when I attempt to drive onto them on asphalt, but they never seem to budge at all.

I generally have my wife watch as I back up onto them and signal me when to stop. So far it has worked fine!


Brian.
There's an old saying about the right tool for the right job, that comes to mind.
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Old 05-26-2014, 05:12 PM   #54
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There's an old saying about the right tool for the right job, that comes to mind.
Aw....what the heck, I had to pull a tire off the inline round bale trailer a few weeks ago, so I just pulled one tire up on a piece of firewood. Right tool Job done !
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Old 05-27-2014, 04:15 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by r carl View Post
Remember those Firestone 500's in the 70's? Then you of all people should know that ST tires are an egg that cracked too. Check into why they are not on airstreams that are sold in Europe today.
Haven't you ever wondered why a ST tire runs 20 to 30 degree's hotter than a LT tire under the same conditions?
Fact is, a ST tire is a cash cow for tire company's.
I'm sorry, but I think you misunderstand. This isn't about whether or not ST tires are failing at excessive rates. This is about the relative strength of an XL tire vs an ST tire. There are trailer applications where an XL tire is not suitable - and that was the point I was trying to make.

And, yes, I remember the Firestone 500's. I mentioned them in my web site:

Barry's Tire Tech

Here's a quote from that page. Please note, I am diagnosing the Ford/Firestone situation from a few years back:


Other folks claim that this problem occurred earlier - in the mid 1970's - to the Radial 500.

Given that this was 20 years before the ATX and the Wilderness AT, data is going to be hard to come by. But here is what is written in Wikipedia:
  • During the 1970s, Firestone experienced major problems with the Firestone 500 radial. The Firestone 500 steel-belted radials began to show signs of separation of the tread at high speeds. While the cause was never proved, it is believed that the failure of bonding cements used by Firestone to hold the tread to the tire carcass, may have allowed water to penetrate the tire which in turn may have caused the internal steel wire to corrode.
Allow me to add that at the time, I was a tire design engineer for one of Firestone's competitors and I vividly remember the questions from OUR management concerning OUR products - and the reassurances came from our rubber chemists!

Unfortunately, I am not a chemist so I couldn't recall the details - so I asked an old colleague of mine - who I knew was in the middle of the debate. Here's what he said:
  • The so-called bonding agent used in the belt skim of the Firestone Radial 500 tires which contributed to an acceleration of corrosion in the presence of high humidity is called HMT (hexamethylenetetramine). This agent produces amines which, in the presence of water, can accelerate corrosion. It was eventually replaced by a similar agent called HMMM (hexamethoxymethylmelamine).


Please note that the issue with the 500 was completely different than with the ATX and Wilderness AT (corrosion vs mechanical), and corrsion is NOT the problem in the ST tires.

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Old 05-27-2014, 05:33 AM   #56
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I'm sorry, but I think you misunderstand. This isn't about whether or not ST tires are failing at excessive rates. This is about the relative strength of an XL tire vs an ST tire. There are trailer applications where an XL tire is not suitable - and that was the point I was trying to make.
.
Yes you may need to go to a LRE from a LRD tire.
Statically a ST tire may have more cord strength in the sidewall initially, but when it starts rolling down the highway, all bets are off.

Its pretty cool you were in the industry in the Firestone 500 time.

I remember when Bridgestone bought Firestone out. The Goodyear
union newsletter called on its members to boycott Bridgestone and Firestone products. When Bridgestone took over, the first thing they did was fire all of
the Firestone employees and said you can come back to work for
$8 an hour. They broke the union.
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