16" Sendel Wheels & 16" Michelin LTX Tires

[rmkrum]

Because you can easily find superior tires that fit them. Michelin does not make many LTX tyres in smaller sizes...

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by MaineStreamer

Why exactly are 16-inch wheels superior to the 15-inch wheels that came with an Airstream trailer?

They also increase the load carrying capacity - which many trailer manufacturers haven't done a good job of. Don't know if Airstream is/was one of those or not.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by MaineStreamer

Why exactly are 16-inch wheels superior to the 15-inch wheels that came with an Airstream trailer?

Because you get better mileage, and everything tastes better with bigger wheels.


Bob

[Tireman9]

Be sure you understand if your LTX tires are "LT" type or "P" type. If P you need to calaulate the actual tire capacity when used on Trailer, SUV or PU-truck.

The adjustment is
(Load molded on tire)/1.10 = Load capacity on the RV or truck or SUV.

No load capacity adjustment is needed for LT type tires.

The LT in "LTX" does not make a tire an actual "LT type tire.

[Biker]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Be sure you understand if your LTX tires are "LT" type or "P" type. If P you need to calaulate the actual tire capacity when used on Trailer, SUV or PU-truck.

The adjustment is
(Load molded on tire)/1.10 = Load capacity on the RV or truck or SUV.

No load capacity adjustment is needed for LT type tires.

The LT in "LTX" does not make a tire an actual "LT type tire.

Please correct me if I'm wrong... The Michelin Defender LTX M/S 235/75R15 is a true LT tire and does not need to be derated?

Shopping for tires on my 2017 23FB. I'd love to just go with the 16" SenDel S02/Michelin combo but not sure if the clearance is there for them.

[Muriel 1]

Ray, I do 4000 mile trips to Colorado from Virginia. I stay on asphalt almost exclusively.
I would like to stay with 14 inch oem wheels.
I will change out my GYM on 2016 23 fb
after the third season.
Do you think the new endurance will work for long term durability with a 3 season change out schedule?
I peg speed at 62 mph.
Thanks
Tom

[switz]

It was a tight fit on our 2015 23D International Serenity to go from the stock 14" GYM tires and stock wheels to the 15" SenDel T03-56545T wheels (they match the 16" SenDel wheels on our Classic) and 15" Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires.

We had to do a little trimming of the curb side front leading edge of the wheel well skin to make it match the street side opening. There is about ⅜ to 7/16" gap from the edge of the tire to the wheel well edge curb side and jut over ½" on the street side.

The 16" Michelins (29.2" in diameter) would possibly rub with minor movement of the trailer as it is about 0.3" larger in diameter than the 15" Michelins (28.9" in diameter) we used. Note that with the Airstream trailing arm suspension design, the wheels move up and back when hitting a bump.

We used this same 15" Michelin model tire and pressure on our 2013 25FB International Serenity that scaled 7,300 pounds which is 1,300 pounds heavier than our 23D.

The 15" Michelins at 44 psi have been recommended by Andy Thompson at CanAm in London, Ontario for many years.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer

They also increase the load carrying capacity - which many trailer manufacturers haven't done a good job of. Don't know if Airstream is/was one of those or not.

At 80 psi you will find things on the floor of the trailer, like cabinet doors etc. with the 16s.

I went with the 15" Michelin P tires (derated but still plenty of margin) at 45 psi. Trailer rides smooth and things stay attached even on Michigan roads.

[VaTravelers]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

At 80 psi you will find things on the floor of the trailer, like cabinet doors etc. with the 16s.



I went with the 15" Michelin P tires (derated but still plenty of margin) at 45 psi. Trailer rides smooth and things stay attached even on Michigan roads.

I've had a different experience. I've been running my 16" Michelins at 80 PSI without problems. I've been pleased with the improved gas mileage and smoother more stable ride Than I got with my factory GYMs on my 2017 28' International.

[switz]

The 28' models have a GVW of 7,600 pounds versus the 6,000 pounds of the 23' models which makes a 1,600 pound load difference for the tires.

The 15" Michelin tires can be used on a 28' model as that is the upper edge of their derated capacity. Also since the 28" has the highest tongue weight of the 25/27/28 models, the tires are actually carrying a lighter load than on the other 7,600 GVW models.

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by Biker

Please correct me if I'm wrong... The Michelin Defender LTX M/S 235/75R15 is a true LT tire and does not need to be derated? .........

No, the 235/75R15 XL Defender LTX M/S is a P type tire, so it has to be derated. You can tell they are P type tires by the *XL*. P type tires come in SL (Standard Load) and XL (Extra Load), where LT's come in Load Ranges (C, D, E, etc.), plus LT tires would have the letters *LT* in front of the size (except that many people neglect to use those letters.)


- and all P type tires have to be derated when used on light trucks and trailers.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

At 80 psi you will find things on the floor of the trailer, like cabinet doors etc. with the 16s.

I went with the 15" Michelin P tires (derated but still plenty of margin) at 45 psi. Trailer rides smooth and things stay attached even on Michigan roads.

Oops, I meant 16" Sendel wheels. We put softer Michelin 16" tires on.

[Biker]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer

No, the 235/75R15 XL Defender LTX M/S is a P type tire, so it has to be derated. You can tell they are P type tires by the *XL*. P type tires come in SL (Standard Load) and XL (Extra Load), where LT's come in Load Ranges (C, D, E, etc.), plus LT tires would have the letters *LT* in front of the size (except that many people neglect to use those letters.)


- and all P type tires have to be derated when used on light trucks and trailers.

OK, that makes sense. I was just confused by the description of the tire on the TireRack website...

The Defender LTX M/S is Michelin's Highway All-Season light truck tire developed to combine long tread life with all-season capabilities for vans, pickups and sport utility vehicles, as well as for commercial vans, shuttles and chassis cab vehicles using heavy-duty, light-truck sizes.

[DBinSD]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer

No, the 235/75R15 XL Defender LTX M/S is a P type tire, so it has to be derated. You can tell they are P type tires by the *XL*. P type tires come in SL (Standard Load) and XL (Extra Load), where LT's come in Load Ranges (C, D, E, etc.), plus LT tires would have the letters *LT* in front of the size (except that many people neglect to use those letters.)


- and all P type tires have to be derated when used on light trucks and trailers.

I just bought Michelin LTX MS2 225/75 R16 tires.

They are LOAD RANGE E tires and true "LT" tires.

They will be placed on Sendel 16" T03 split spoke wheels and tucked under a 28' International. There is NO NEED for "derating" these tires.

I plan on running at 70-75PSI.

[Ray Eklund]

Originally Posted by Muriel 1

Ray, I do 4000 mile trips to Colorado from Virginia. I stay on asphalt almost exclusively.
I would like to stay with 14 inch oem wheels.
I will change out my GYM on 2016 23 fb
after the third season.
Do you think the new endurance will work for long term durability with a 3 season change out schedule?
I peg speed at 62 mph.
Thanks
Tom

********

There are at least TEN Airstream owners, posting on this Thread, that can argue the point on the 15" to 16"... tires and wheel options. Switz has always delivered. Several others as well.

Fourteen inch, C Rated tires on my 2006 23 foot Safari were a major problem on our Boondocking travel. The Marathon 14" tire was the worst experience, not long after purchasing the trailer new.

The Greenball Towmaster 14" and the Maxxis 14" I used and wore the tread down 50% and would use either, without question. Carlisle is another brand I hear about, but my experience is with the first two. Never had a blow out, nor unexpected tire puncture from a stone in a Forest Service road.

The engineers, at Jackson Center, feel that four 14" C Rated tires are more than adequate on a 23 foot Airstream. Airstream would be better off by going to 15" D Rated Goodyear's... they are much more reliable than the 14". A terrible way to cut costs on a perfect double axle 23 foot that is great for Boondocking Off the Grid. Upgrade the axles to the 25 foot standard of excellence.

The argument among owners about cabinets coming loose, popped rivets and rough trailer towing may not be the tire issue, but the assembly and the screws used.

Then the... tow vehicle's suspension is causing a stiff ride.
Or the... hitch is not set correctly, or too stiff.
Or the... tires are riding too hard.
Or the... trailer is over loaded.
Or and or and or...

I had cabinets coming apart with 14" Marathons, Maxxis, Greenball Towmaster's. Popped interior rivets on the CURVED interior sections on the 23 foot Safari. I have the same issue with the 15" and 16" tires on the 25 foot International.

I believe there is tension on the interior skin, mostly the fit along the curves. This is where I find popped rivets. The cabinet screws I would not use on a Dog House in my yard. I add screws, drawer locking devices, lock downs, bolt & nuts to firm the interior's construction. Everyone has their own technique(s) from experience and how you use your trailer.

Tires... if you loose a tire while towing... that could be an very expensive replacement in damages or inconvenience. Bolts and screws and reinforcing the cabinets cost under $20 to catch those falling out.

The experience on this tire thread has the smartest, most experienced Airstream owners giving their trial and errors. Start at the beginning.

For me and 16" upgrade from 15"... no complaint and I am 100% satisfied making that change. Those with 14" tires on their 23 foot... it is a bad situation that will get worse, sooner than later. Black top or forest service roads.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by rmkrum

Because you can easily find superior tires that fit them. Michelin does not make many LTX tyres in smaller sizes...

Also, a 16" wheel will turn less for a given distance since the circumference is larger. Less wear on bearings.
As long as it fits in the wheel well.
I have GY Endurance, and I'll be keeping them as long as practical.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Biker

Please correct me if I'm wrong... The Michelin Defender LTX M/S 235/75R15 is a true LT tire and does not need to be derated?

Shopping for tires on my 2017 23FB. I'd love to just go with the 16" SenDel S02/Michelin combo but not sure if the clearance is there for them.

I believe that if you read the tire sidewall you will see the correct designation is P235/75R15 XL
The "XL" is the tip-off as that stands for "Extra Load" which is only found in Passenger type tires.

LT tires have Load Range C, D, and E
P-type have Standard Load (no special marking) and XL which is lower in inflation than an LT-C.

Your tire dealer should have made clear the type tire they are talking about. Sometimes RV owners need to know more than the salesman if you want to get the tire you need or want.

Please review post #551 in this thread.

[SSquared]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

I believe that if you read the tire sidewall you will see the correct designation is P235/75R15 XL
The "XL" is the tip-off as that stands for "Extra Load" which is only found in Passenger type tires.

[...snip...]

But the tire industry has managed to make it even more confusing than that. The Michelin Defender LTX M/S in this size (I have a set) does not say "P", does not say "ST", and does not say "LT" as part of the size designation. There is no prefix letter.

The tire industry rule says that when a tire has no prefix letter, it is a passenger-type tire, and passenger-type rules apply. So the tire's weight rating should be reduced by the same factor that you use for "P" tires.

[Muriel 1]

Ray,thank you for answering my question
on the 14 inch GYM tires for my 23 fb.
We have (6) tundras in our family business. Started using Tundras in 2007. The only tire I use are Michelin ltx.
Absolutely never ,had any blow out.,or delaminate.
They outlast others by at least twice.
I had 2 arrive from the factory with cheap tires and they were wore out in about a year.
Our 1/2 tons are heavily loaded.
I believe Toyota uses a ltx a/s for tundra.
I have a 2004 four runner with ltx ms2
tires on it. The ride after I put on the Michelin’s was an incredible difference .
I just need to upgrade my 23 to Michelin’s
but those factory wheels look so cool I hate to change them.
Thanks
Tom

[switz]

The reason for derating passenger tires for trailer use is this Federal Regulation:

49 CFR 571.110
Tire selection and rims and motor home/recreation vehicle trailer load carrying capacity information for motor vehicles with a GVWR of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) or less.

S4.2.2.1
Except as provided in S4.2.2.2, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall not be less than the GAWR of the axle system as specified on the vehicle's certification label required by 49 CFR part 567. If the certification label shows more than one GAWR for the axle system, the sum shall be not less than the GAWR corresponding to the size designation of the tires fitted to the axle.

S4.2.2.2
When passenger car tires are installed on an MPV, truck, bus, or trailer, each tire's load rating is reduced by dividing it by 1.10 before determining, under S4.2.2.1, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle.

S4.2.2.3
(a) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with passenger car tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the derated load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.
(b) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with LT tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.