15" ST Failure to 16" Replacement..a journey

[GCinSC2]

Jack,

Aside from a hail storm I think tires on the heavier units is our single biggest common concern, remember I'm only 3 years into this but I have already learned more about tires and personal eperiences than I thought I would. Our FIRST outing I found 3 GYM's with tread seperation and replaced them IN CAMP on our first Airstream outing. The 4th was replaced before my purchase. Rough start.

Jack, none of us has all the answers, but if or when my next tire situation occours, I think I'll be looking at the same type package you're buying.

Assuming you have hydraulic brakes, this is a great time to closely inspect them looking for uneven pad thickness wear eg: inside more than outside or vicea versa and take a real close look at the 16 piston dust boots looking for splits, cracks, heat damage anything that compromizes the dust boot can allow water to get behind the boot and it is steel piston vs. cast iron right behind the boot = rust. It caused a serious hot brake situation for me and one day I'll write up my findings and stir the pot a bit about disc brake lag or more accurately my findings and visual proof about actuation vs. creation of pressure in the caliper, its on video. I like my brakes.

Gary

[slowmover]

Tire pressure requirements for TV and TT are different (as we learned in the "Revised" tire thread linked from a thread here to a discussion on Woodalls with two tire engineers about TT tires)

1] TV tires still pressure according to load (within range specified by the vehicle manufacturer).

2] TT tires at sidewall maximum (cold).

What Load Index is best for a TT tire is found by weighing the trailer, wheel-by-wheel with Weight Distribution applied . . and then a 12-15% reserve in load capacity is found likely ideal atop the scale value.

IOW, if I am seeing on my TT (with WD applied properly; according to formula from weight scale numbers) 1,837-lbs/tire, then I would want a tire capable of from 2050 - 2100/lbs (with respect to possible heavier future loads).

The reason for using the scale is that one tire or more may well be carrying more weight than a simple axle average calculation may consider.

And the heaviest "position" is the one to work from for capacity sake . . add the load reserve recommendation of 12-15% to that single acquired value.


.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Jack,

Aside from a hail storm I think tires on the heavier units is our single biggest common concern, remember I'm only 3 years into this but I have already learned more about tires and personal eperiences than I thought I would.
Jack, none of us has all the answers, but if or when my next tire situation occours, I think I'll be looking at the same type package you're buying.

Assuming you have hydraulic brakes,
Gary

Thanks for the thoughts Gary. It's funny since I was talking to Silvertwinkie just prior to the Moraine View rally about tire replacement. I had told him that at the end of this season, the Maxxis tires would be 4 years old and I was probably going to replace them prior to the first trip next year. At that point I told him I was on the fence about going to LT tires and 16" wheels. While up to that point I had no problems with the Maxxis E rated tires, I was also looking at retirement soon and more travel. The aspect of moving to LT tires would be a serious consideration.

Obviously that is all water over the dam at this point and my latest ST experience is fast forwarding my decision. You are right about none of us having the answers. The reality is that you have to consider your own personal history and get lots of feedback, which is great here at the Forum.

It only takes one failure on the road to more than justify the expense that I will undertake in changing to 16" LT's. As I told my wife, consider the problems with a tire failure on the highway. Not only is it costly but any failure that puts you on the shoulder of the road has risk to both your TV and and trailer, but to yourself also. I witnessed a camper getting killed on the I-44 when he was changing a tire on his popup. A driver not paying attention clipped his trailer on the shoulder of the road as he was in the process of changing his tire.

FYI, my trailer was built before the hydraulics were offered by Airstream.

Jack

[jcanavera]

Wheels just got here. These are the T03 16" Sendel wheels that Tredit handles. These have the black inside areas which is what the EB units have. I ordered the wheels, end caps, lug nuts and valve stems from Tredit. I also ordered a steel wheel from them as the spare. The wheel for the spare is essentially the same wheel that comes in the 15" size that Airstream supplies on the Classics.

Jack

[vswingfield]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

Wheels just got here. These are the T03 Sendel wheels that Tredit handles. These have the black inside areas which is what the EB units have. I ordered the wheels, end caps, and lug nuts from Tredit. I also ordered a steel wheel as the spare. This is essentially the same wheel that comes in the 15" size that Airstream supplies on the Classics.

Jack

I really like those T03 wheels with the black. Now we need part numbers for the caps and lug nuts. And, of course, photos. They're going to look great!

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by vswingfield

I really like those T03 wheels with the black. Now we need part numbers for the caps and lug nuts. And, of course, photos. They're going to look great!

OK here is the receipt with the price and the order information. I got these wheels from the Elkhart Indiana locale. I tried Kansas but they only had the all silver versions. The only thing missing from the order sheet is the valve stems. They were an after thought and I ordered them today. Here is the info on the stems.

"The valve stem that we use is a 24-120. This is a high pressure snap in stem that will hold up to 100 PSI. Most tire shops should have this stem available as they are used most regularly in the industry.
If you have a hard time locating stems we have them available and they are $1.40 each.
Please let me know if you would like to get these on order.
Have a great day!
Jennifer
Tredit Tire and Wheel"

Jennifer is at the Elkhart site. She handled all the part numbers and everything sent is correct and matched for the wheels.

Jack

[jcanavera]

I'm going to order the tires tonight. I've got till the 7th to get the tires ordered in order to qualify for the Michelin $75 rebate.

Once we get the tires mounted to the new wheels, I'll pull the 15" wheels and tires off. It will be interesting to get a side by side comparison of the ST's on the rear axle and the bad ones on the front. I post the pictures so we can see how deformed the bad tires are.

I'll probably end up putting the 15" wheels for sale on Craig's list to see if I can sell them locally without having to ship them.

Jack

[vswingfield]

Thanks for the info. Great price too.

Now I just need to come up with enough spare (yeah, right) cash for half a dozen of those.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by vswingfield

Thanks for the info. Great price too.

Now I just need to come up with enough spare (yeah, right) cash for half a dozen of those.

They key to this was I was going to have to buy tires any way. At least two right away due to the unexpected failure, and then the plan was to replace the other two next spring which was going to happen for sure. When I looked at the cost of 4 new ST E rated Maxxis tires (they have gone up considerably in the last 3 years), the cost of the LT Michelins along with rebate, makes the tire purchase almost a wash. So the only additional cost was the wheels themselves. Hopefully we can get some money from selling the 15" Alcoa wheels and spare. So the net cost goes down even more.

Jack

[jcanavera]

Got the tires delivered yesterday. Any fear of Discount Tire Direct not selling fresh tires was put to side when I checked the manufactured date stamp on the side walls. These tires were manufactured in week 24 of this year.

Jack

[redwoodguy]

A very instructive thread, indeed. I am still getting over the shock that I have to buy new tires and wheels for a brand new trailer, if I want to protect my family from an almost certain catastrophic blowout scenario.

The path taken here seems quite reasonable and I think will be a template for what I do in the next week or two, after I rob a few banks to pay for all this. (<--Joke).

I have a couple questions:

Q: If I convert to 16" wheels, but leave the spare at 15", is it really doable to drive on the 15" for say - 20 miles - if I had to? Anyone done this?

Q: I just looked briefly at the Dill TPMS. It seems reasonable at $229. Are there other systems at lower cost?

Thanks for the great info!

[overlander64]

Greetings redwoodguy!

Originally Posted by redwoodguy

A very instructive thread, indeed. I am still getting over the shock that I have to buy new tires and wheels for a brand new trailer, if I want to protect my family from an almost certain catastrophic blowout scenario.

The path taken here seems quite reasonable and I think will be a template for what I do in the next week or two, after I rob a few banks to pay for all this. (<--Joke).

I have a couple questions:

Q: If I convert to 16" wheels, but leave the spare at 15", is it really doable to drive on the 15" for say - 20 miles - if I had to? Anyone done this?

Q: I just looked briefly at the Dill TPMS. It seems reasonable at $229. Are there other systems at lower cost?

Thanks for the great info!

I can't give you a definitive answer to your question, but my intuition tells me, that for short distances it wouldn't be any worse than utilizing a compact spare for a short distance . . . . the compact spares in each of my cars are somewhat smaller in diameter than the street tires. While it wasn't on my Airstream, I did change to custom alloy wheels on my Cadillac Eldorado, and the performance shop that performed the install insisted that my 15" spare tire/wheel would be perfectly usable for short distances even though the diameter of the new tire/wheel combination was more than 1.5" inches taller. The only thing that leaves a question in my mind is whether the proximity of the axles to one another could poses stresses that would not be present in a long wheelbase vehicle like my Eldorado.

Since I own Vintage Airstreams, I have one question, and that is does Airstream still suggest that it is safe to remove a failed tire/wheel combination and continue at a reduced speed to a shop where the repair can be accomplished? I have been very fortunate and have never had a blow-out on either my Argosy or Airstream, but I did have a catastrophic failure on my first travel trailer . . . a 17.5 foot Nomad Light Weight Special. I did have one flat on the Overlander, but that happened parked in my home driveway shortly after arriving home following a trip through the tornado ravaged area near Greensburg, Kansas shortly after the storm had struck (I had a roofing nail in the tread of the tire). All that I know about handling flats or blow-outs on Airstreams has been learned from my Owners' Manual and this Forum . . . thus far, I have not had to put theory into practice.

I know that I will have to put the remove wheel/tire combo if I have a failure on the Airstream while on the road as the clearances within the wheel well are so close that the tire has to be deflated to insert the wheel/tire into wheel well opening. I do carry a 120-volt air pump and might be able to use it to reinflate my spare using the coachs' inverter that I had installed shortly after adding an additional panel and battery to the coach's 12-volt systems.

Kevin

[Gene]

Redwood', yes it is a pain to buy new wheels and tires. Since bank robbers usually get more than a few thousand these days (inflation), you'll only have to rob one bank. But we used the Marathons for about 18,000 miles without a problem except for having to add air to them frequently—Even after replacing rubber stems with metal ones. Not everyone has blow outs or tread separation, but it is a crap shoot.

I suppose a 15" spare is better than nothing on the brake drum, but I wouldn't go very far as the other 3 wheels must be supporting just about all the weight. We drove less than a mile on 3 wheels and very slowly (wheel bearing failure).

Gene

[redwoodguy]

Originally Posted by overlander64

Greetings redwoodguy!



I can't give you a definitive answer to your question, but my intuition tells me, that for short distances it wouldn't be any worse than utilizing a compact spare for a short distance . . . . the compact spares in each of my cars are somewhat smaller in diameter than the street tires.

Kevin

Thanks Overlander. That seems very rational and I don't mind saving a couple hundred bucks on this conversion to 16". Yesterday I broke the news to wife that we would need 5 new tires and wheels. Today I can give good news that it is only 4!

[Gene]

Originally Posted by redwoodguy

Thanks Overlander. That seems very rational and I don't mind saving a couple hundred bucks on this conversion to 16". Yesterday I broke the news to wife that we would need 5 new tires and wheels. Today I can give good news that it is only 4!

You should have told her you'd need 8 or 10, and then you could get 5.

What tires do you have on your tow vehicle? Can they handle the weight of a fully loaded tow vehicle with a trailer? Our truck came with crappy OEM P tires and they wore fast, so I replaced them with Michelin LTX A/T2 Load Range E tires after about a year and a half. At least I didn't have to replace the wheels.

Gene

[xrvr]

Are there not other 15 inch tires avail. Rather than GYM? I think so. Jim

[redwoodguy]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

Are there not other 15 inch tires avail. Rather than GYM? I think so. Jim

Is there one you are fond of?

[Gene]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

Are there not other 15 inch tires avail. Rather than GYM? I think so. Jim

There are Jim. I think most or all are P tires. People who prefer Michelins have to go to 16" because there is no Michelin tire in the size that are LT's. P tires support less weight than LT's of the same size and if you can find a P tire in the Airstream 15" size, it may be marginal for the weight.

The distinction between P and LT has been blurred in the past several years and that causes more confusion.

I couldn't get Michelin LTX, the tire I felt was best, in anything but 16", so we bought new wheels too. We prefer the way the newer wheels look too, but that's not why we made the decision.

Gene

[xrvr]

Thanks for the info, gene. Jim

[redwoodguy]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

What tires do you have on your tow vehicle? Can they handle the weight of a fully loaded tow vehicle with a trailer?

Gene

Gene,
My TV is a 2007 Suburban. It has P275/R55P20 tires with a max load of 2,403 pounds. This is the tire that was on the car when purchased last fall. They are in good condition and no trouble yet. I haven't heard any scary stories of blowouts and $4500 worth of damage to the vehicles. If I did, I would have changed them out.