what a mess - 1st major outing

[m.hony]

We have had drawers come open, but no damage.
I need to install some type of latch for the drawers.
No damage 4 years later, but I have gotten 16"wheels and tires and Centramatic balancers.
For the most part things stay put.
Now if we could just get this raggedy,sub-par 2 a/c units on one motherboard and one crappy thermostat a/c system fixed...
Trailer has been at an RV repair shop for 3 weeks!
Dometic's CCC II thermostat is the biggest POS! The 2 units controlled by one motherboard and 1 thermostat defeats the purpose of having 2 a/c units- redundancy- so if one quits you still have a/c. The way it is designed and set up, if one component fails (And it will) you got nothing when it is 91 degrees.
Who needs a fancy electronic programmable thermostat in a camper? It just needs to be able to turn on and off and select temperature and fan speed.
But, anyway, back to the thread at hand...
The drawers, doors, and microwave are still in place undamaged 4 years later, but the only time my camper goes off road is into a campsite or in the yard at the house...

[Snaken49]

AAP,

As we all know an AS is a house on wheels and in some respects an aircraft due to the design and construction of the shell. Both are subject to considerable vibration. On an aircraft critical bolt heads have holes drill for safety wire to prevent them from backing off.

Unfortunately the AS has nothing of the sort leading to screws vibrating loose over time, depending on the frequency of the vibration. I recommend as a preventive measure the following:

- Remove all metal to metal cabinet hinge screws and treat them with red LOCTITE Threadlocker http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/10/...er-Red-271.htm This will save doors from coming off the hinges. Use the same application for metal drawer handles.

- Periodically check and tighten all exposed drain lines under sinks and lavatories for loose connections. Do the same for your water filter if one is installed under the sink.


- Use wood glue for wood screws to reinstall those that back out of cabinet fixtures.

- Once a year check the fresh water, grey and black water tank cradle retaining bolts for obvious signs of backing off and rust. Some folks have experienced tanks falling off while traveling due to rust and corrosion.

- I highly recommend the (nearly) Complete Guide to Airstream Maintenance by Rich Luhr. It will provide you with many other useful tips on keeping your rig in top shape.

http://store.airstreamlife.com/produ...am-maintenance

Rich also offers the Newbies Guide to Airstreaming

http://store.airstreamlife.com/colle...o-airstreaming

In regards to your dealer not wanting to warranty the work instead suggesting that you file an insurance claim. This is often the case where a dealer is not satisfied with the labor rate that Airstream will pay for warranty repairs vice what an insurance company will allow. Airstream dealers are not all equal in the care and treatment of their AS customers. Some dealers refuse to do warranty repairs on Airstreams that they did not sell. Other dealers will say that they are too booked up with big motor home repair work and will direct you to other authorized Airstream warranty repair facilities in the area. It should not be this way, but it is.

Finally, you can send a PM to me for information on corrosion issues.

All the best! joe

[Lumatic]

Originally Posted by aap

What kind of gas mileage you getting in the F350? - I want to upgrade to an F250 for sure. .

Keep in mind the difference in suspension between 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks. Heavier trucks have stiffer suspension and will transmit more road shock to the trailer. There are several remedies to this: air bag rear axle suspension, Air Safe hitches, lower tow vehicle tire pressure.

[aap]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

aap... your 23 foot Airstream with, now, 15" wheels and D Rated tires is ready to experience highway and Forest Service roads. The lift kit does not give you any additional clearance. The axle is your maximum clearance. The lower center of gravity is better than the lift kit advantages, if any... but this is my opinion.

Tires are Number ONE and you did that right.

I owned a 2006 23 foot Safari and like yourself, discovered what I believed and what I actually purchased were not even similar. I felt betrayed by the advertising of Airstreams for going anywhere reasonable, and even on highways there is an expectation that something is going to come loose. I am now finding out... WHY, and helping others FIX these issues before d

amage to cabinets is beyond repair.

I could not wait any longer to Boondock Upgrade our 2014 25 foot International. If you examine the wood screws and hardware holding the interior cabinets... together, you will really be disappointed. I do not even keep them for reuse, they are that poor in my opinion.

- The shell exterior and interior are very solid. (best reason for an Airstream)
- The Dexter Axles should serve you well.
- The windows and the gaskets may be an issue in the future.
- The appliances are pretty much in every brand of trailers today.

The cabinets, drawers, doors and hardware ARE where you will discover they need to be improved and upgraded. Most of the problems are the 'kinds' of screws used to attach everything in the interior. Myself, if you saw the screws that hold the interior together... I would not buy an Airstream. You will see them on the floor on any kind of trip.

I have a Thread under the 'Cabinets, Counter Tops & Furnishings' concerning Door Hinges... etc. When in the process of going through the problem areas of the cabinet hinges, I encountered interesting problems everywhere else. If you have the ability to put something together that needs assembly... you have a head start.

The 23 foot double axle is an excellent Boondocking Airstream! You will manage to tighten up the interior, but you have to be a hands on person. At $100 to $150 an hour these dealers charge for what they should do for free on a new sale... you should be disgusted. Not ALL dealers are like yours.

Add about 50% more hardware to attach cabinets together and to the floor. Your shower door hinge at the bottom will break off 1/4" of plastic and it will hang up and has to be lifted to clear the bottom drip edge. The microwave frame will split in the lower right corner and the four wood screws have already, no doubt, backed out. Pop rivets in the interior will break on the curved areas... unless your trailer is parked all year.

I do not want you to be overwhelmed all at once, but what the dealer says is your fault... study why and add some structure to firm everything up.

Our oven door fell off in our 23 footer. The list is long, but after two years you will have a 90% perfect trailer. Getting to 100% will never happen, but do not lose hope... this Forum has people from all spectrums of Airstream use. I am just a bit Off the Grid and am upgrading our new trailer... today.

Most responding are more main stream... and normal.

Thanks Ray - I appreciate the words of encouragement - I'm most likely not in the middle of the bell curve when it comes to normal

[aap]

I'll be talking to the dealer shortly - I do remember that show

Thanks for the information!

[aap]

Good information - thanks so much for taking the time to reply - much appreciated

-anthony

[aap]

Thanks for taking the time to comment -much appreciated, we will definitely be making some support changes to the infrastructure. I didn't anticipate such a high learning curve - but I think, once we climb out of this one, we'll be fine...thanks again!

-anthony

[aap]

Originally Posted by merchantmm

Somewhere in this post you ask about gas mileage towing with an F 350.

During a recent trek from Orange County in So. Cal to Yellowstone and back we traveled 2915.2 miles and consumed 224.8 gallons of Diesel fuel. This averages 13.0 mpg. My TV is a 2015 F-250 Laredo 4x4 with 6.7 Powerstroke Turbo Diesel. My AS is a 2015 27' FC. Equalizer hitch w 750 bars.

This was our first long trek also. We did encounter an "Improved" unpaved road on the trip. About 8 miles of wash board and deeply pot-holed terrain on the back side of the Grand Tetons in Teton Canyon. Wow! Watching the rear view...the truck would pitch one direction while the AS pitched the other. Incredible rough conditions. Only damage was to the Blackwater/Grey water drain pipe connector. We must have hit a rock in the pitching. Easy fix. Yes the cushions were on the floor but nothing else out of place and no interior damage done.

I will research more carefully in the future as "Off-Roading is not my intent with this rig.

Good luck in resolving your issues and have fun in your travels.

Thanks for taking the time to reply again - I think upgrading to a 250 will serve me well...that's awesome gas mileage, I know Ford has made improvements in this area since I purchased my truck in 2010...thanks again for the additional information on your trip as well.

-anthony

[aap]

Originally Posted by m.hony

We have had drawers come open, but no damage.
I need to install some type of latch for the drawers.
No damage 4 years later, but I have gotten 16"wheels and tires and Centramatic balancers.
For the most part things stay put.
Now if we could just get this raggedy,sub-par 2 a/c units on one motherboard and one crappy thermostat a/c system fixed...
Trailer has been at an RV repair shop for 3 weeks!
Dometic's CCC II thermostat is the biggest POS! The 2 units controlled by one motherboard and 1 thermostat defeats the purpose of having 2 a/c units- redundancy- so if one quits you still have a/c. The way it is designed and set up, if one component fails (And it will) you got nothing when it is 91 degrees.
Who needs a fancy electronic programmable thermostat in a camper? It just needs to be able to turn on and off and select temperature and fan speed.
But, anyway, back to the thread at hand...
The drawers, doors, and microwave are still in place undamaged 4 years later, but the only time my camper goes off road is into a campsite or in the yard at the house...

Bummer - I suspect the more moving parts the more likely for things to go wrong, especially with electronics. We have only one AC unit and it definitely does the job...I'm wondering what the lifecycle with these things are - I guess time will tell. Hope you get your trailer back soon...seems to me the more miles one puts on an Airstream, no matter what happens, the more one wants to keep putting miles on...I think this is pretty cool - and speaks to the mystic of an Airstream...

Thanks so much,
-anthony

[aap]

Hey Everyone,

I just wanted to let you all know that I just talked directly with the Service Manager from Airstream Adventures NW, and he was actually extremely helpful. Bottom line is they will definitely be submitting this under warranty. He also gave me a bunch of other helpful information.

What a relief. Our purchasing experience was definitely positive, and its awesome to know that they definitely support their customers post sale!!!!

I'll respond to others who posted later today - I actually have other stuff to do as well

Thanks again everyone for all the information and support!

-anthony

[Boxite]

I'm glad to hear your dealer will take care of things.
Disregard the whiner/complainer/neer-do-weels that often post nothing but discouraging downer-"advice" (I'm sure U know iz referred 2 heer)

As for the claims that Airstream no longer builds ruggedness... keep in irmind that those who swear by they early Airstreams... may be pulling older designs sitting higher on leaf-spring suspensions which are certainly not the stiffer rides of torsion axles which have short-travel suspension. The torsion axles meet a certain need for low-ride-streamlining, but are not flexible enough to withstand true-off-roading hell-for-leather driving.
I also am opinionated regarding tires. ST tires belong on trailers. LTs and Ps on tow vehicles. But the problems run-into with STs are that owners
1- Run them underinflated. (They should be run at their max load pressure if you want longevity from them and anti-sway features to work as ST tires are designed.) The usual advice to run pressures commensurate with vehicle weight pertains to vehicles, not ST/trailer setups. If you run ST below rated pressure you will have early failure and sorry performance. (I am convinced the majority of the ST nay-sayers are victims of this violation.)
2-Replace them based upon chonological age and condition FIRST. Mileage is not a valid scale for these Special Task tires.
3- Remember, lowering the air pressure will give you a gentler-ride on rough roads. But that translates to tire sidewall-flex for which the tire was not intended. That equates to tire abuse. Keep tires inflated to the maximum as indicated on the tire sidewall, because THAT is the pressure for which that tire was designed. Ignore the usual practice of load vs inflation.
4- Do not store your trailer sitting on it's tires. Jack the weight off the tires for long-term storage. Long sitting on the tire creates a flat-spot that degrades tire life. Also, short term storage should place the tire upon a board or outdoor-carpet, etc. to protect it from turf or concrete which can damage the tire. Protect the tire of UV sunlight.
Here's the best info on trailer tires:
http://www.carlstargroup.com/cms_fil..._Practices.pdf

You will likely get a lot of opposing views on this, but that pdf file is directly from the people who make purpose-built tires. Who do you think knows more?
Hope this helps.

[Northerngirl]

Originally Posted by aap

Interestingly enough, I had my wife drive around the RV park with me in trailer to experience life on the inside, I was shocked at how much vibration was happening inside - I had heard towing one of these babies, is like a home going through a major earthquake, I understand why now

I understand your frustration and it sure sounds like a good part of the damage done was the result of poor workmanship/finishing - i.e micro not secure etc. .

But having said that I have experienced unexpected drawer and cabinet issues with both the Airstream as well as a couple of other brands of trailers over the years. Most of which I have had to take ownership for. I do prior to pulling away go through the trailer and double check every door and drawer to make sure they are actually latched well. Yet more than once I have missed one somehow as a result I now make it a habit to stop after I have gone a few miles to double check that everything is in fact well secured.

You would think after all these years I would get it all stored away and secure tightly without having to do that but the truth is sometimes I do not get it right and find surprises when opening the door of the trailer. As others have suggested putting large heavy items that can shift and bang up against doors is not a good thing - putting none skid liners in all the cabinets helps a bit with that. Any amount of dump or rocking with result in items popping doors open and contents sliding around on the floor of the trailer. Once the door is open and if its left swinging while traveling it can result in the hinges letting go. I have put a small strip of wood about 1/2" high along the edge of a couple of lower shelfs in the kitchen area, that helps prevent items that might slide from hitting the doors. I have also had to adjust the hinges on some of the overheads to put a bit more pressure on them as well - to stop them from popping up & allowing items to fly out when going over a bump a bit faster than I should have - try to avoid that but it does happen from time to time.

I have dealt with the same dealer and while they are not cheap they have provided me with good service. I hope they step up and fix the items that are clearly workmanship - i.e. the microwave flying around. If they do not repair all the damage they will IMO sure need to do some serious explaining as to why they feel those items were not damaged due to poor workmanship. Pretty sure one way or another your insurance company is going to want a REALLY good explanation before they pay for any of it!

Hope you get it resolved fast.

[streaminwild]

Sorry about your shake-down trip. Good advice=good results. Thanks for giving us closure. Sometimes we never know the end result after a lot of positive advice. It's good to hear the Airstream network supports their product. Start planning your October trip. Camping with the changing autumn leaves is not to be missed. Sometimes I can't remember someone's name or date, but we know that all forum members have your best interest in mind. When you were buying your Airstream, did the dealer tell you about this priceless support group? Welcome to the family aap

[aap]

Originally Posted by Snaken49

AAP,

As we all know an AS is a house on wheels and in some respects an aircraft due to the design and construction of the shell. Both are subject to considerable vibration. On an aircraft critical bolt heads have holes drill for safety wire to prevent them from backing off.

Unfortunately the AS has nothing of the sort leading to screws vibrating loose over time, depending on the frequency of the vibration. I recommend as a preventive measure the following:

- Remove all metal to metal cabinet hinge screws and treat them with red LOCTITE Threadlocker http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/10/...er-Red-271.htm This will save doors from coming off the hinges. Use the same application for metal drawer handles.

- Periodically check and tighten all exposed drain lines under sinks and lavatories for loose connections. Do the same for your water filter if one is installed under the sink.


- Use wood glue for wood screws to reinstall those that back out of cabinet fixtures.

- Once a year check the fresh water, grey and black water tank cradle retaining bolts for obvious signs of backing off and rust. Some folks have experienced tanks falling off while traveling due to rust and corrosion.

- I highly recommend the (nearly) Complete Guide to Airstream Maintenance by Rich Luhr. It will provide you with many other useful tips on keeping your rig in top shape.

http://store.airstreamlife.com/produ...am-maintenance

Rich also offers the Newbies Guide to Airstreaming

http://store.airstreamlife.com/colle...o-airstreaming

In regards to your dealer not wanting to warranty the work instead suggesting that you file an insurance claim. This is often the case where a dealer is not satisfied with the labor rate that Airstream will pay for warranty repairs vice what an insurance company will allow. Airstream dealers are not all equal in the care and treatment of their AS customers. Some dealers refuse to do warranty repairs on Airstreams that they did not sell. Other dealers will say that they are too booked up with big motor home repair work and will direct you to other authorized Airstream warranty repair facilities in the area. It should not be this way, but it is.

Finally, you can send a PM to me for information on corrosion issues.

All the best! joe

Hey Joe -

First off - THANKS FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!

Additionally, thanks for the additional "wealth" of information - I will definitely put this to use. Hope you noticed my update on the dealer, looks like they are going to do the right thing after all.

Thanks again,
-anthony

[SilverEagle6]

"""Originally Posted by Ray Eklund View Post
aap... your 23 foot Airstream with, now, 15" wheels and D Rated tires is ready to experience highway and Forest Service roads. The lift kit does not give you any additional clearance. The axle is your maximum clearance. The lower center of gravity is better than the lift kit advantages, if any... but this is my opinion. """

I have installed the lift kit. It lifts the frame. Along with the 16" tires I had installed, my trailer frame is nearly 4" higher. The axle clearance remains the same, but my driving on FS roads, and in and out of culverts has dramatically improved due to rear end clearance.....most notably sewer connections.

[aap]

Originally Posted by streaminwild

Sorry about your shake-down trip. Good advice=good results. Thanks for giving us closure. Sometimes we never know the end result after a lot of positive advice. It's good to hear the Airstream network supports their product. Start planning your October trip. Camping with the changing autumn leaves is not to be missed. Sometimes I can't remember someone's name or date, but we know that all forum members have your best interest in mind. When you were buying your Airstream, did the dealer tell you about this priceless support group? Welcome to the family aap

You bet...nope, they didn't tell me about the group...but I'm glad to have found it. Hopefully we will meet some of you on the road...thanks again!

-anthony

[aap]

Originally Posted by Boxite

I'm glad to hear your dealer will take care of things.
Disregard the whiner/complainer/neer-do-weels that often post nothing but discouraging downer-"advice" (I'm sure U know iz referred 2 heer)

As for the claims that Airstream no longer builds ruggedness... keep in irmind that those who swear by they early Airstreams... may be pulling older designs sitting higher on leaf-spring suspensions which are certainly not the stiffer rides of torsion axles which have short-travel suspension. The torsion axles meet a certain need for low-ride-streamlining, but are not flexible enough to withstand true-off-roading hell-for-leather driving.
I also am opinionated regarding tires. ST tires belong on trailers. LTs and Ps on tow vehicles. But the problems run-into with STs are that owners
1- Run them underinflated. (They should be run at their max load pressure if you want longevity from them and anti-sway features to work as ST tires are designed.) The usual advice to run pressures commensurate with vehicle weight pertains to vehicles, not ST/trailer setups. If you run ST below rated pressure you will have early failure and sorry performance. (I am convinced the majority of the ST nay-sayers are victims of this violation.)
2-Replace them based upon chonological age and condition FIRST. Mileage is not a valid scale for these Special Task tires.
3- Remember, lowering the air pressure will give you a gentler-ride on rough roads. But that translates to tire sidewall-flex for which the tire was not intended. That equates to tire abuse. Keep tires inflated to the maximum as indicated on the tire sidewall, because THAT is the pressure for which that tire was designed. Ignore the usual practice of load vs inflation.
4- Do not store your trailer sitting on it's tires. Jack the weight off the tires for long-term storage. Long sitting on the tire creates a flat-spot that degrades tire life. Also, short term storage should place the tire upon a board or outdoor-carpet, etc. to protect it from turf or concrete which can damage the tire. Protect the tire of UV sunlight.
Here's the best info on trailer tires:
http://www.carlstargroup.com/cms_fil..._Practices.pdf

You will likely get a lot of opposing views on this, but that pdf file is directly from the people who make purpose-built tires. Who do you think knows more?
Hope this helps.

Awesome PDF...I tend to agree on tires based on years of motorcycle racing...Thanks for your support and all the information supplied. Its easy to weed out the good from the bad, always

[aap]

Originally Posted by SilverEagle6

"""Originally Posted by Ray Eklund View Post
aap... your 23 foot Airstream with, now, 15" wheels and D Rated tires is ready to experience highway and Forest Service roads. The lift kit does not give you any additional clearance. The axle is your maximum clearance. The lower center of gravity is better than the lift kit advantages, if any... but this is my opinion. """

I have installed the lift kit. It lifts the frame. Along with the 16" tires I had installed, my trailer frame is nearly 4" higher. The axle clearance remains the same, but my driving on FS roads, and in and out of culverts has dramatically improved due to rear end clearance.....most notably sewer connections.

Good info...the lift kit I have only lifts 1" plus the 15" tires/rims...I bought a bit of clearance but still don't like the way the black/grey water outs are pretty low...in fact, they installed wheels on the bumper which look cool, but if i'm dragging those, I would have busted off the sewage down spouts

Thanks for the response and the info - much appreciated!

[NWRVR]

Originally Posted by aap

This sounds exactly like the setup we have, which leave 3.5 links showing on the bottom end

What kind of gas mileage you getting in the F350? - I want to upgrade to an F250 for sure. Interestingly enough, and a Kudo for Airstream, our gas mileage was only 1mpg less than normal on the way to Montana, and close to normal on the way home...

We towed with a Range Rover HSE the first year and though she could handle our AS, we could feel the AS especially downhill into a curve. Also, the long uphill grades were at 45 MPH and we felt we were shortening the life of the Rover. The point is, the Rover is very close to a 3/4 ton with a six speed, oil cooled tyranny so when we did our research for a new TV we decided on the F350 with the 6.7 Power Stroke diesel. The only difference between the F250 and F350 is an extra leaf spring on the rear axle that doesn't come into play until the load requires it so the ride is the same as an F250 and you don't have the rear end sag that others have had to cure with added air bag suspension. Great truck so far, we only have 4K miles towing and running from the valley to Crater Lake, across the Coastal Range to run up and down the coast we have averaged 12.6 MPG. I am in Tow/Haul mode all the time and lock out 6th gear most of the time. Love the exhaust brake, just returned from Astoria and did not apply the brakes manually at all over the Coastal Range.

Glad you were able to resolve the warranty issue, safe travels and happy camping!

[Piggy Bank]

Originally Posted by Boxite

I'm glad to hear your dealer will take care of things.
Disregard the whiner/complainer/neer-do-weels that often post nothing but discouraging downer-"advice" (I'm sure U know iz referred 2 heer)

As for the claims that Airstream no longer builds ruggedness... keep in irmind that those who swear by they early Airstreams... may be pulling older designs sitting higher on leaf-spring suspensions which are certainly not the stiffer rides of torsion axles which have short-travel suspension. The torsion axles meet a certain need for low-ride-streamlining, but are not flexible enough to withstand true-off-roading hell-for-leather driving.
I also am opinionated regarding tires. ST tires belong on trailers. LTs and Ps on tow vehicles. But the problems run-into with STs are that owners
1- Run them underinflated. (They should be run at their max load pressure if you want longevity from them and anti-sway features to work as ST tires are designed.) The usual advice to run pressures commensurate with vehicle weight pertains to vehicles, not ST/trailer setups. If you run ST below rated pressure you will have early failure and sorry performance. (I am convinced the majority of the ST nay-sayers are victims of this violation.)
2-Replace them based upon chonological age and condition FIRST. Mileage is not a valid scale for these Special Task tires.
3- Remember, lowering the air pressure will give you a gentler-ride on rough roads. But that translates to tire sidewall-flex for which the tire was not intended. That equates to tire abuse. Keep tires inflated to the maximum as indicated on the tire sidewall, because THAT is the pressure for which that tire was designed. Ignore the usual practice of load vs inflation.
4- Do not store your trailer sitting on it's tires. Jack the weight off the tires for long-term storage. Long sitting on the tire creates a flat-spot that degrades tire life. Also, short term storage should place the tire upon a board or outdoor-carpet, etc. to protect it from turf or concrete which can damage the tire. Protect the tire of UV sunlight.
Here's the best info on trailer tires:
http://www.carlstargroup.com/cms_fil..._Practices.pdf

You will likely get a lot of opposing views on this, but that pdf file is directly from the people who make purpose-built tires. Who do you think knows more?
Hope this helps.

This is an EXCELLENT article on tires. Thanks for posting it.