Mileage for gas trucks vs diesel trucks?

[mrmossyone]

Originally Posted by BillTex

I just posted this on another (3/4 ton) thread. I don't think you NEED diesel for a 23, but would agree that is max for a 1/2 ton.
Glen, my towing data includes multiple water toys on top of the truck FYI; porta-bote and 1 or 2 kayaks, as well as bikes, ob motor, and ? in the bed. So I am not very aerodynamic when towing (to say the least)...

These are based on 1/2 ton 5.3l Suburban (3:73) and the D/A CC.


Unloaded Highway
A tank of diesel, on the high way gets me about 400 miles @ $3.70/gal= $96.20/tank or $96.20/400 miles.

A tank of gas with the Suburban, on the high way got me about 400 miles @ $3.00/gal= $105.00/tank or $105.00/400 miles.

Unloaded In-town
A tank of diesel, in-town gets me about 315 miles @ $3.70/gal= $96.20/tank or $96.20/315 miles.

A tank of gas with the Suburban, in-town got me about 315 miles @ $3.00/gal= $105.00/tank or $105.00/315 miles.

Towing
A tank of diesel, towing gets me about 315 miles (26 gals) @= $96.20/tank or $96.20/315 miles.

A tank of gas with the Suburban, towing got me about 250 miles @ $3.00/gal= $105.00/tank or $105.00/250 miles.

Disclaimers;
I never run the tank to “empty” so neither case represents a “full” tank of fuel (26 gals for the diesel truck, 35 gals for the ½ ton Suburban. i.e. Don’t confuse this analysis with mpg). A “tank is being defined as the point where I typically stop to fill up, I always tank up when I get under ¼. The mileage figures per tank ARE accurate. I am totally anal about setting the odo and re-fueling based on those miles.

Even at the high cost of diesel today (I am sure it is related to heating season and will come down soon) I am still ahead of the fuel cost/mile game driving the diesel, only slightly in day to day driving (8%) , but dramatically (43%) when towing.. I am not saying one is better than the other, but these are real costs, based on my experience for anyone considering a new TV today and concerned about real world fuel costs.


And there is no question which one I would rather tow with.



Bill

You only get 7 mpg while towing with the Suburban according to your figures. That's pretty bad, really bad in fact. My Hemi towing a 24 ft and loaded with crap gets 12mpg.

[mrmossyone]

I just sold the Hemi today and will now be towing with a Buick Roadmaster Estate Wagon. I have no idea about gas mileage right now but the boys love sitting in the rear facing rumble seat. I can already imagine it'll pick up the Moss Family Truckster moniker.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by mrmossyone

I just sold the Hemi today and will now be towing with a Buick Roadmaster Estate Wagon. I have no idea about gas mileage right now but the boys love sitting in the rear facing rumble seat. I can already imagine it'll pick up the Moss Family Truckster moniker.

Hi, We want pictures!

[2airishuman]

mossy...

this must be a tennessee thang...

we'll now have 2 vols towing with the buick land yacht...

cool!

but i thought u were getting a f-150?

cheers
2air'

[mrmossyone]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

mossy...

this must be a tennessee thang...

we'll now have 2 vols towing with the buick land yacht...

cool!

but i thought u were getting a f-150?

cheers
2air'

I did buy a Ford f150 and planned to tow with it as well as use it for a work truck for me. Today however I was able to trade the Hemi for the wagon at a favorable exchange and my wife loves the extra room and comfort of the wagon. Now I will probably just use the truck for work and the wagon for towing. We already have the wife's accord that we use for everything else as it gets 34-35mpg on hwy and 31-32 in town.

It's amazing how much power and acceleration the wagon has and better gas mileage than the Hemi or F150 to boot. It's a cool woody wagon.

[2airishuman]

mossy

silvertwinkie towed with the bowtie sedan version of that boat...

he made a variety of mods to the car and has several posts on the topic...

advance search caprice and his member name and much will appear.

ted will (till) also tows with on of these boats, i think he pulls a 26 ftr with his (and 4-5 kids inside)...

cheers
2air'

[mrchinup1]

My silverado with a 5.3 is getting 11.8 to 12 going 75++. The only time i drove 55 to 65 was coming home from the North Georgia rally. I got 14.5 hand calculated miles per gallon. It seemed like the wind was with me all day, lol. But that was coasting every hill and really paying attention to the flow meter. I will slow down this next trip, so i figure i can get 12.5 or so, until i hit the mountains. What do you guys average in the mountains?

[DFord79]

You all have forgotten to mention one thing in this GAS versus Diesel mileage and cost thing. Besides the fact that diesel in part of the world (MINE) is 60 Cents a gallon more than gas, witch some of you did mention. The initial cost of 7 GRAND MORE for a diesel than a gas motor. 100 dollar oil changes compared to 30 dollar oil changes for gas. Air filters that cost several times more....etc. These are all cost factors. Don't get me wrong I love diesels and have had many years experience with them in one form or another.

But trading a 07 chevy gas for an 07 Dodge diesel is gonna hit the pocket book so hard it will probably never ...in anyones reasonable lifetime pay with even averageing 30% + better fuel mileage with the diesel. I have 6 million miles of documentation of diesel verses gas trucks of the last 30 years. And yes they are mostly pickups of ONE TON to Cube Vans with 7.3 Navistar and cummins in delivery service of ALL conditions as well as similar trucks with gas. We even had some of the LAME chevy 5.7 and 6.2 garbage.....I DO MEAN GARBAGE, NO power and electrical and transmission problems so bad it was am embarrasment.
OUR break even point in was almost always 30,000 miles a year with very little deviation. At 30 thousand the diesels started to pay off. Thats is figuring a lifetime of 200,000 miles or more with both the gas or diesel...and don't let anyone kid you gas motors will go well beyond 200,000 miles if taken care of. We never wore a motor out in 30 years and virtually all our delivery trucks had well over 250,000 miles. GAS OR DIESEL. Some of them drove mostly hiways miles ...some of them mostly city miles. Hard,,,hard miles for the most part in the city. Brakes lasted anywhere from 40 thousand to 200,000 miles on some of the trucks that were mostly hiway. Tires varyied greatly too. Michelin tires always lasted the longest....period. The only exception the that was a few sets of heavy duty Bridgestones I bought for a few cube vans we had 19.5 tires on. They went 200,000 hiway miles...but were more money than the michelins....you can't buy them anymore...they were 14 ply tires with three steel belts. I know WE are talking towing airstreams here and if it pays to trade for a diesel. Remember tho....this is over 30 years...but....The only significant change is the price of diesel 25 years ago was a bit cheaper than gas....and it stilll took almost 30,000 miles a year to justiy the diesel....but of course it was justified for us cause many of our delivery trucks went 80,000 miles or more a year so diesels were the best for us.

Just the facts ..

[mrchinup1]

I can remenber my uncle had a 455 olds beach wagon in the 70's i believe. He towed a huge SOB across the country for two months. Two adults and 7 kids, the back end had some serious sagging, lol. I don't know what he got for mileage, but it surely had to have some power. Just thought i'd share that.

[DFord79]

My father towed a 25 foot Terry trailer to Arizona and beyond every winter with a Ford Station wagon with a 429. It had good power and he used Air/ride springs in the back..IT SAT LEVEL. He found out the virtures of Equalizer hitches a few years into towing. He finally bought a 3/4 Ford pickup with a 390. The strange thing is....the pickup with the 390 and the station wagon got almost identical towing mileage. My uncle bought a new terry trailer at the same time and a new Chevy suburban with a 454. MY dad's 390 didnt have quite the power on the hills and the 454,,,,but the 454 burb got 6 mpg gallon towing and my dad would get 9 with the 390 Ford pickup. That was always a hot campfire topic in our family of retired loggers and Farmers.

[mrchinup1]

'But trading a 07 chevy gas for an 07 Dodge diesel is gonna hit the pocket book so hard it will probably never ...in anyones reasonable lifetime pay with even averageing 30%'

Boy i was so close to doing it, if it had been a 4 door long bed dodge i would have done it anyway. I would have lost 14k on the trade, i lost plenty of sleep thinking about that. I guess sometimes it's more of a want than a need, i have a 5 year 100k warranty so if anything breaks it's covered.

[mrmossyone]

Originally Posted by mrchinup1

'But trading a 07 chevy gas for an 07 Dodge diesel is gonna hit the pocket book so hard it will probably never ...in anyones reasonable lifetime pay with even averageing 30%'

Boy i was so close to doing it, if it had been a 4 door long bed dodge i would have done it anyway. I would have lost 14k on the trade, i lost plenty of sleep thinking about that. I guess sometimes it's more of a want than a need, i have a 5 year 100k warranty so if anything breaks it's covered.

I think you defintiely did the right thing. I was wondering about eating that 14k in neg. equity, woulda made the new truck actually 42,000 dollars. That is showing good restraint.

[mrmossyone]

Just found manufacturer claimed mpg for the Buick Estate Wagon, it's a 96 the last year made, is 17 city and 25 hwy vs my Hemi at 11-12 city and 17 hwy. The wagon has 260 hp with a whopping 335 ftlbs torque.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by mrmossyone

You only get 7 mpg while towing with the Suburban according to your figures. That's pretty bad, really bad in fact. My Hemi towing a 24 ft and loaded with crap gets 12mpg.

Well...no.
As noted this was not a calculation of mpg. It is an analysis of usable miles/tank. A tank being defined as that point which I would stop to refuel (about the 3/4 mark).
The 1/2 ton Suburban (5.3l, 3:73 final drive) got about 11 mpg towing. The DA gets about 15.

I think you based your number on using the full tank to arrive at 7 mpg...not what I said...

Bill

[mrmossyone]

Originally Posted by BillTex

Well...no.
As noted this was not a calculation of mpg. It is an analysis of usable miles/tank. A tank being defined as that point which I would stop to refuel (about the 3/4 mark).
The 1/2 ton Suburban (5.3l, 3:73 final drive) got about 11 mpg towing. The DA gets about 15.

I think you based your number on using the full tank to arrive at 7 mpg...not what I said...

Bill

I noticed you said not a full tank so I had to take a guess, and I used your numbers of 250 miles per tank at $3 per gallon and costing you 105.00 to fill, that's 34 gallons at 3 dollars which is 7.3 mpg. 11 is much more normal. That would be much closer to a wash in savings with deisel costing much more and then when you add the extra 7-8 thousand dollars on the cost there is no question which is a better value. Some people however need a deisel for what they tow and for how often, making a gasser impractical for them. If you can tow efficiently with a gasser and it fits your needs it is a much better value.

[Westfalia]

See, we live in the mountains, and a turbo charged diesel (with an exhaust brake) is exactly what we need. Non turbo gassers just work too hard at 11,000 feet.

BillTex, thanks for the fuel cost analysis. The timing is prefect for us as we will be getting a new truck in the next week or so.

[mrmossyone]

Originally Posted by Westfalia

See, we live in the mountains, and a turbo charged diesel (with an exhaust brake) is exactly what we need. Non turbo gassers just work too hard at 11,000 feet.

BillTex, thanks for the fuel cost analysis. The timing is prefect for us as we will be getting a new truck in the next week or so.

I would say this still depends on what you are towing. A 3/4 ton gasser can tow a 19ft Bambi all day long at 11,000 feet, I would have no problem towing my 24 Argosy with the Hemi at 11,000 feet( some gassers have good engine breaking). Now if I were towing it on a normal or frequent basis at 11,000 feet or towing anything larger even infrequently then I believe a diesel would be more practical. So really a lot of this debate comes down to need, you also have to factor in preference as well as cost. If you need a diesel then a gasser will never be a good value. For me I tow 12 times a year or so and maybe once in two years would I tow at anything near 11,000 feet, most done at less than 6000 feet and my trailor only weighs 3400 pounds so I have absolutely no need for a diesel. Everybody has a different story and a different need.

[2airishuman]

[QUOTE=Westfalia]...we live in the mountains, and a turbo charged diesel (with an exhaust brake) is exactly what we need.../QUOTE]

westie

i get the forced induction at altitude thing, no doubt.

but explain why an exhaust brake is better than shifting down on long declines and so on...

also how does exhaust braking play into using the trailer brakes for some of the stopping power...

and what about all those 'no exhaust braking' signs i c in near populated areas...

cheers
2air'

[Motoman]

Originally Posted by mrchinup1

Don, do you have a 2 wheel drive or 4 wheel drive? Do you have 3.73 or 4.10? I would expect that the megacab would get the same mileage as you posted. Right now i do 95% of the driving, i think with a bigger truck i would feel safer when i ask my wife to drive. (kinda) lol With such a long trip coming up, i'll be dead tired without a break. Thanks George

Sorry George, took a break from life for a couple of days for some surgery. It's a 4 wheel drive 2500 with the 3.73 rear end and the Dodge 4 speed automatic. I can't nit-pick the Chrysler automatic. It pulls well, shifts smooth and I don't notice the lack of fifth or sixth gears.

[Westfalia]

2air, the exhaust brake in the Dodge is very quite, not like a big rig, and also engages somewhat gradually, lessening noise. I doubt that using it in a no exhaust brake zone will get noticed.

As for WHY, if you are in flat land, it's not necessary at all. Since diesels don't have throttle bodies, you don't get compression braking like you will in a gasser. Also with an auto tranny, most will unlock the torque converter when you let off the throttle causing an increase in downhill speed with your trailer load. On steep mountain passes (especially of the two lane variety), without an exhaust brake or compression braking, you'll end up needing to ride the brakes most of the way and risk over heating them on TV and trailer alike. I can't tell you how many people I see on the big climbs that have over heated that brakes. The tell tale white clouds of smoke always give them away.

No, you don't NEED an EB, but having one to help take the load off of the brakes can only help.