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**moosetags** · 12-30-2010, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmclemore

When I gotta go, I gotta go. And I'll always gotta go.

Pat

I wholeheartedly agree. I have only so many days left in this life to head out on Airstream adventures. I will continue to try to wear Lucy out regardless of the price of fuel. Life is way too short to stop traveling in order to protest high fuel prices.

I sure hope that fuel prices do not skyrocket, but if that happens, I will still travel in Lucy. I will make up the difference somewhere else. I'll be darned if I will let my retirement be ruined by something like this.

Brian

Air Cruiser · 12-30-2010, 01:56 PM

Gene,

Very eloquently said; I wholeheartedly agree with you.

IMO, it is unfortunate that, as a nation, we are controlled by others whose greed outways our best interest. The oil companies control our politicians and that is one hugh reason why more is not being done as far as alternative fuels/fuel economy/etc. It will more than likely take a significant occurrence for those in power to say enough is enough. I just hope this happens before we become a third-world country.

Deb

Bill M. · 12-30-2010, 02:22 PM

It will have to go pretty high before I would quit going on long trips. When we were in Alaska diesel hit around $5-$6 a gallon at some stops in Canada. What we did cut out is a lot of fishing and sight seeing trips without the trailer after we were parked. Logging those $125 refills after making a loop from the campground in an afternoon got pretty tiresome. I was sure glad at that time when it finally dropped to $3.50 on the way home.

Airperson · 12-31-2010, 07:33 AM

Happy our o6 classic is not an impersonal hotel room; as her name indicates she is brings joy into our lives. We are surrounded by the colors we love and all the creature comforts that we may need are close at hand. There is no lag time. Even in a 4 or 5 star hotel you wait. I have my coffee waiting for me when I wake and all my favorite foods are close at hand. I don’t have to dress before breakfast. I can curl up in my PJ’s and savor the view from our window. The food we consume is not regional if we don’t choose it to be. It is what we like and the way we like it cooked. Taki our friendly black cat is always welcome; there are no boarding fees. I don’t think you can put a set price on happiness…
CU, On the road Airperson

Denis4x4 · 12-31-2010, 08:03 AM

No one has touched on the fact that there have been no new refineries built in more than 25 years. There's a man in the Phoenix area that claims to have spent the past 15 years putting up road blocks to the construction of a refinery in AZ. One has to wonder if the greenies stopped protesting the building of new refineries as well as allowing existing refineries to upgrade with state of the art equipment, if air pollution would be cut and the price of gas would fall. It would also create jobs.

wahoonc · 12-31-2010, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denis4x4

No one has touched on the fact that there have been no new refineries built in more than 25 years. There's a man in the Phoenix area that claims to have spent the past 15 years putting up road blocks to the construction of a refinery in AZ. One has to wonder if the greenies stopped protesting the building of new refineries as well as allowing existing refineries to upgrade with state of the art equipment, if air pollution would be cut and the price of gas would fall. It would also create jobs.

Unlikely, it is primarily a question of oil supply, not gas supply. The oil market is a world market, and we are no longer the only major player. There is a limited amount of oil available at any given time, and it is getting expensive to get it out of the ground. The ROI on new wells has not been particularly good. New refineries wouldn't hurt, but I am sure gas prices would stay the same to recoup the capital investment to build them.

Aaron

Ken J · 12-31-2010, 08:22 AM

Gene - you have a lot more faith in the Chinese than I do - I think Americans will put up with only so much - we are a very adaptable group of folks who will do what we need to do - we have been trying times before and we will be through trying times again. We will get up dust ourselves off and go on. Things look good to me.

Ken J

ArtStream · 12-31-2010, 08:57 AM

CA: Diesel $3.59
Gas: $3.29

rock60 · 12-31-2010, 09:09 AM

diesel $4.15 gas $4.05 here today.

r carl · 12-31-2010, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denis4x4

No one has touched on the fact that there have been no new refineries built in more than 25 years. There's a man in the Phoenix area that claims to have spent the past 15 years putting up road blocks to the construction of a refinery in AZ. One has to wonder if the greenies stopped protesting the building of new refineries as well as allowing existing refineries to upgrade with state of the art equipment, if air pollution would be cut and the price of gas would fall. It would also create jobs.

That guy shouldnt be able to buy gasoline......

pmclemore · 12-31-2010, 09:37 AM

As much as tight supplies mean higher prices, so too does the fall of the dollar. As we inflate ourselves to cover all the checks we are writing it is small wonder that the price of gas (and all commodities) rise in tandem. The price of good whisky will, tragically, rise as well. (not gonna give that up, either).

Pat

Sky · 12-31-2010, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmclemore

As much as tight supplies mean higher prices, so too does the fall of the dollar. As we inflate ourselves to cover all the checks we are writing it is small wonder that the price of gas (and all commodities) rise in tandem. The price of good whisky will, tragically, rise as well. (not gonna give that up, either).

Pat

Amen Brother

Phoenix · 12-31-2010, 10:00 AM

North Phoenix Costco, yesterday: Unleaded Regular = $2.79

tpi · 12-31-2010, 10:06 AM

The higher fuel prices may keep me Airstreaming longer. I had considered one more RV in my life, a small motorhome. But I will be reluctant to spend the money on 10 mpg fuel economy with high fuel prices. By RV standards my Airstream and diesel pickup are very fuel efficient for the size. Much of the depreciation has already happened.

wahoonc · 12-31-2010, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmclemore

As much as tight supplies mean higher prices, so too does the fall of the dollar. As we inflate ourselves to cover all the checks we are writing it is small wonder that the price of gas (and all commodities) rise in tandem. The price of good whisky will, tragically, rise as well. (not gonna give that up, either).

Pat

I will give up gas before scotch

Aaron

Nuvite-F · 12-31-2010, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmclemore

The price of good whisky will, tragically, rise as well. (not gonna give that up, either).

At least, in a pinch, self-reliant people can make their own whiskey at home.

Harder to make your own gasoline.

As far as the "good" part goes, I've never tried to make my own.

But I once sampled a friend's product which was superb. S-m-o-o-t-h. This southern gentleman commented he wouldn't mind paying the tax on "gummint liquor" if the gummint only knew how to make decent whiskey!

(Disclaimer to any revenooers reading: This was a long time ago--the statute of limitations has acted--and in any case I think this gentleman has passed out of your jurisdiction.)
.

Phoenix · 12-31-2010, 11:34 AM

Not advocating illegal "moonshine'n", but saw this documentary on PBS recently -- a real character from a bygone era (or maybe not)...

YouTube - moonshine documentary film trailer

Gene · 12-31-2010, 11:41 AM

Ken, China has problems—a corrupt court system, widespread confrontations against authorities, especially in rural areas, limits on speech also limit innovation. But dictatorships have become powerful economically before. India also is expanding quickly, but suffers from corruption at all levels, but does have democracy and a better court system than China. Business likes certainty and corrupt courts and bribery inhibit growth, but India has the advantage there. Brazil should not be overlooked, but they are not oil importers, so for gas prices, they don't matter.

I don't know if the US is as adaptable as we once were. We seem to have become set in our ways. The great period of growth in the 19th century relied on cheap labor—many immigrants—and plentiful natural resources. Immigration is less now and natural resources are no longer plentiful in the country. Growth after WW II was also large and depended on a good educational system, fairly cheap natural resources, being a creditor nation, and regulations which provided sustained growth by keeping the banks and others from looting the system and creating instability. Infrastructure was built and expanded in the 19th and first half of the 20th century to help the country grow—at first it was cheap immigrant labor, later a wealthy country could afford it.

Wealth after WW II was spread through the population far more equitably. For the past generation wealth has been concentrated at the very top limiting the ability of the rest of us to buy what is made here; taxes have been cut and cut and the government cannot provide the infrastructure necessary for an advanced economy. Before the '60's, taxes on the rich were as high as 90% and the country was doing fine and expanding economically. Today the richest have convinced people they shouldn't pay higher taxes under a progressive system—that lower taxes for the rich will help everyone. The same "trickle down" theory was promoted in the 1920's also and there was no regulation of banking and you know what happened. With wealth concentrated at the top, the middle class shrinks, the lower class becomes more destitute. Education becomes less available. State universities and colleges were once cheap because it was recognized that benefitted everyone, but now tuition is very high and many can't afford it.

Our citizens are less healthy and don't live as long as many other industrialized nations—we divert enormous sums into health care, but deliver it badly. Strange how every one of the countries that has long life expectancy and better health has some sort of universal government enhanced health care. All the extra money we inefficiently spend on health care could have been used for economic development. We also spend enormous amounts on the military—far, far more than any other nation. There's tremendous waste and members of Congress look at military and military contractors as sources of jobs for their states. You can't sustain an advanced economy if you drain so much money into war and other nonproductive or inefficient investments. Everyone is afraid to rein the military budget in. If we keep in investing so unwisely, our time is going to be over. If we continue to be one of the world's major causes of climate change, we may become an international pariah.

We have long been divided and held back by racial politics. Two hundred years ago it was directed against blacks and Catholics. Even as late as 1960 a Catholic running for president was suspected. Racial discrimination was enshrined in law then too. Now it's anyone suspected of being of some sort of Hispanic origin. Every group once maligned eventually becomes part of the whole and enriches the culture. But in the meantime, we waste energy and resources attacking those who appear different and refuse to see beyond the surface. Go to Canada and you'll see a diverse population and it looks like it's working well—they are succeeding where we are dragging our feet.

So, I think China has a lot of flaws and could implode, but we have lots of problems too. China may be less delusional than us. I do not see here as much of the spirit of innovation, of big ideas, that we have had in the past. I hope it works out.

Gene

noreen&sal · 12-31-2010, 12:48 PM

Gene. I agree with a lot of what you said. We do have problems, but in the end we will beat them. Sal.

Ken J · 12-31-2010, 01:18 PM

Gene

Wow wow wow - so to keep this from getting into a political discussion, and since you live nearby - will have to have a nice discussion over a campfire with some of our homemade wiskey - and what we need to do is you present your side, I'll present mine - then we take a swig - and I'm sure by the time we are done, we will both be sooo drunk, we won't care what the future will bring...

Ken J.