Best Forums for AVION technical Information

[perryg114]

Is there an Airforums equivalent for AVION trailers? I know all about how Airstreams are made. I would like to know how AVIONS are made. I may consider buying an AVION at some point and I wanted to understand the pros and cons of Airstream versus AVION.

Perry

[Denis4x4]

I bought a 1985 Avion 30' last week to use as a guest house on the river. Stripped out the dinette on my 2006 Safari 25 FB and removed the hide a bed on the Avion. The Avion interior workmanship is hands down better than the AS. In fact, I would consider a straight across trade for a restored 25' or 30' Avion.

[perryg114]

Well I know the interior is better than the fake plastic crap in my Airstream but I am mainly worried about how they are constructed. I might also consider selling my Airstream and buying a newer AVION that I won't have to spend years completely gutting the interior of my 81. The interior of my 81 is pretty good but the plastic coated stuff was not made to last. I expect the Airstreams are lighter but my Excursion gets around 10 MPH towing or empty.

Perry

[Kevin245]

Perry,

As far as I know there is no forum for the silver Avions. There is a Yahoo group site and a website that are good resource tools though. Links are shown in this post New to me 1983 Avion 34' - Airstream Forums

[slowmover]

There is a Yahoo Owners Group. Active, but not busy. Dr. Gradeless site is the easiest, most comprehensive place to begin.

Remember that these TT's have not been in production in nearly a quarter-century. While there are 1990 models they are re-badged 1989's.

The best way to learn about them, IMO, is to make the effort to drive and see them. I have noted (bookmarked) good examples in the South as I collected info for over four years prior to buying the SS I have now. I'd say there are some proud Southerners in re the examples I saw, not just older original buyers selling them off, but second and third owners keeping them up nicely.

These brands have all but disappeared in Texas the past two years with the oil field boom. Sad, in some respects.

I realize you want tech spec, but the in-field inspections will go a long way.

And I wouldn't wait, either, Perry. If you see a nice one you might not see another as nice for years.

TXIceman bought a 34V the ex and I looked at a few years ago. A nice re-do including 50A service. He has pics on sister site IRV2. They've since sold it for a retirement 5'er.

.

[perryg114]

Well I have an Airstream that I plan on keeping for now. I don't have the money to invest in another trailer. Let's just say the wife would kill me.

Perry

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by perryg114

Well I have an Airstream that I plan on keeping for now. I don't have the money to invest in another trailer. Let's just say the wife would kill me.

Perry

In that case, the brochure comparisons and asking owners like JimGolden. I'd vote the '73-'76 models the best built, but the '80's trailers are more easily found and more conventionally outfitted (I really would love to have a Smooth Ride TT to pull, just to see what it is like).

The original owner of mine had the same questions as you. He has ad brochures for Silver Streak, Avion and Airstream, 1989 vintage. all at the rear of a three ring binder with other info. Fun reading, even if previously familiar. That was pretty much the last year for all of them for sale. 1974 saw the last Streamline.

Avion, IMO, had the all-around best features by the time they stopped production: design, performance, capacities plus fit & finish. If one avoids the XB and maybe the X, then the tridem 34' of '89/'90 was one heckuva fulltimer.

.

[ventport]

I have a 1964 T21 Avion which I have restored. I have previously owned two 70's Airstreams. In my opinion the Avions are made much better then the AS. They have a very strong frame, and the interior is made of better materials. I bought a 24' Argosy as I needed a bigger trailer, so If any one is looking for a 21 footer PM me.

[Becky B.]

There isn't an easy to use forum like this one for Avions. I bought a 30 ft. '84 Avion last October, after seeing the 34' '82 my daughter bought. Sold my totally refurbished & polished Sovereign Airstream recently as a trade-off for the Avion. But, the sale of the AS paid for the Avion, as well as the rebuild of my Bambi II. I'll never have to polish it & it's built like a tank. No frame issues with this puppy. My daughter's had some floor rot. The floor doesn't go into a "c" like an Airstream. It was a straight-forward fix that was relatively easy compared to fixing the Airstream floor. There are a lot of inexpensive Avions out there. But, if you fix them all up, you won't get the return back that you would on an Airstream. So, plan on keeping the one you fix up!

[JimGolden]

Hi Perry,

Yes, they do have a forum. No, it's not as elaborate as this one. Dr. Donald Grayless (Dr. G) is the Inland Andy of Avions. Don knows everything about them. He helped to educate me before I bought mine. I now know a lot about them, after doing research, buying, and fixing up one. I'll try to throw some pointers out to you here.

OK, on the really old ones, I'm not sure what suspension they had. Probably just a big beam axle on leaf springs; like the old Airstreams had. Not a thing wrong with that. Sometime in the 1960's I believe,they went to the Mor-Ryde suspension. That suspension is excellent. It's expensive to make, but it's great. They used it up into the late 70's or early 80's.

At that point, they switched to what they called "Adjust-a-Ryde" suspension. What that was, was a Dexter axle cut in half with a pivot fitting placed on the end. It then formed a swing arm, sort of like the old Ford "Twin I-Beam front suspension" on their 2wd trucks. They had three main frame rails running the length of the coach. The center "spine" then had pivot fittings on it that these swingarms attached to. They used leaf springs and conventional automotive type shock absorbers. So what you got was fully independent suspension. It works great. My own trailer (1987 34X) has this and it rides superbly.

In 1988, they switched to the rubber suspended axles like Airstream uses.

OK, on to frames. Avion used a heavier frame than Airstream. At the risk of offending some, all this talk of "monocoque" stressed skin construction with Airstream is a bunch of baloney. The cutouts are too big to be true monocoque. Anyway, Avion uses a deeper and thicker frame. I can't speak for all models, but I know that on my own, it has three rails that are 6" deep channel running the length of the coach. It also has a "suspension frame" that the axles and stuff bolt to, that is 8" thick. This suspension frame extends a couple feet on either side of the axles. So to get geeky on you, in the area of maximum bending moment (where the trailer sees the most stress), it's got 14" of steel. You won't see an Avion exhibit "SAG" or "Separation". Their frames are stout.

As to the shells, they are very similar to Airstream. One thing I do NOT like is that Avion annodized their shells on all trailers newer than about 1965. The thought there was that it will keep them from corroding. Well and good. But the side effect is that you cannot polish one to a mirror finish like you can an Airstream, with it's Alclad skin. So, the Avion skin is meant to last forever with a dull finish. You can polish them up pretty nicely, especially if you use Par-Fe wax (the absolute best product available for an Avion's skin). You can comb your hair in it just fine. But you cannot get a perfect mirror finish on one (post '65 or so) like you can an Airstream. That is my single biggest gripe against one. I guess, though, if you look at the books with the pictures of Wally's old rallies, most Airstreams were dull in finish. They didn't polish them like mirrors back then. All I can say to that, though, is that I did polish my Excella up like a mirror and I loved it. I shine my Avion up as much as I can, but the annodized skin will never shine like an alclad skin.

As for interior appointments, Avions are rather well made. They used real hardwood cabinetry. Mine actually has real stained glass inserts in some of the doors. Their cabinetry is second to none. I'm not sure how much that matters, but it is a fact. My Excella had the dreaded "tambour" doors that bound up and hung up and were generally undesirable. Maybe they worked OK when new, but they didn't work now.

As for mechanical appointments, Avion does tend to use more "industry standard" stuff than Airstream. It's not a big deal. But they tended to use more "standard" plumbing and stuff than did Airstream.

I agree with Slowmover that the old trailers were really solid. I'd have to say that my '87 is pretty solid too. I am not a fan of the rubber axles, and so the mid year '88s when they changed have that feature that you'd have to account for. For what it's worth, I contacted Mor-Ryde a few years ago, and you can totally rebuild their system for about $500. There's not that much to go wrong with it, and the only wear items are the rubber bits. You can still get those pieces.

On shape; Avions were more squared off than the old Airstreams. But, not like the "Squarestreams." The current new production Airstreams are shaped nearly identically to Avions. Personally, I think the best looking trailers are the old Airstreams that were more rounded off. But, honestly, you do get a lot more storage space being squared off a bit.

Now, as to which models to avoid....I'm sure this is debatable. But, the -B models which are known as the "Basement" models, are probably better avoided unless you find a really nice one. The deal is, they jacked the upper body up a little bit to create full pass through storeage down below; aka "The Basement". That in and of itself was a good idea. However, the way they did it was to use a fiberglass wrap on the bottom that lapped up over the aluminum skin above. So, the top skin goes inside the bottom skin. DUH! That is bound to leak eventually. They should have overlapped the upper skin over the lower skin. It's like lap siding on a house, but upside down. However, the percentage of basement model trailers is very low; I'm not sure they even made them prior to '86 or so.

I have a 34X, which has the bathroom in the middle (aisle runs through it with a door on both ends) and the bedroom in the back. I really like it. The V model had the bathroom in the rear. Starting in '85, they put big windows in the coaches, including a large picture window in the living room. This makes them FAR brighter than the older coaches. As well, the old ones had very dark cabinetry, whereas they lightened them up in the '80s. It's personal preference. I like the lighter and brighter. I looked at a '76 30 footer before I bought my 34X. It was built like Gibralter, but was just too dark inside for my tastes. It's all in what you like.

The biggest difference between an Avion and an Airstream is the frame. Other than that, they are very similar. A given year Avion is typically a little heavier than the same year Airstream because of the frame. But, they are all lighter than the trailers being produced today.

Anyway, hope this helps a little. I've attached a pic of mine at a campground in Williamsburg (Yes, it has Zipdees all around....five of them...Yes, I have the main awning arms incorrect in this picture...I've since learned better ). I've sinced upgraded the a/c unit from the original Coleman Delta T 13,500 btu to a Carrier RV 15,000 BTU. I also painted the roof white. That alone dropped the inside temps 10 degrees, and the new a/c will freeze you out. The old one would barely cool it down. I've installed a new toilet, new fridge, new faucet, new water heater, and turned the rear twins into a single King. Next mod is to replace the front gaucho with a set of custom made bunk beds...kids are getting too big to sleep together without fighting and I don't want to have to fold out the couch AND the dinette.

Oh well, I've rambled enough. Best of luck whichever way you go.

See you on the road,

[perryg114]

What I am trying to understand is how the AVION frame is attached to the body. What literature I have found is not very descriptive.

Perry

[Becky B.]

On my'84, there is a belt line that runs around the while perimeter. Behind the belt line are screws that go into the plywood floor every 6" or so. I'd have to look further to see if its attached in other ways, but that's a major way. When we fixed the flooring in my daughters '82, we removed the exterior screws to remove the floor.

[perryg114]

When I am finished fixing my 81 Excella II and I can sell for a reasonable price, I might buy an AVION.

Perry

[JimGolden]

I haven't had the floor out of mine, as it's still solid. But the shell does not sit on the floor like it does on an Airstream. The floor sits inside the shell. You can pull the floor out without having to lift the shell. They did run screws through the beltline into the floor, but I believe there are like L brackets that attach to the outriggers that the shell hooks to.

By the way, the floor is three layers in them. It's typically a layer of half inch plywood, a half inch layer of insulation, then another layer of half inch plywood. Every couple feet the insulation is divided with a 2" wide stave. So you have two layers of plywood with a half inch between them in 2' wide bays down the length of the trailer. It makes like an I-Beam type structure. Makes for a nice stiff floor. And the insulation in it helps a lot.

Hope this helps,

[perryg114]

I originally bought an Airstream because I thought it would be lower maintenance than the short lived SOB trailers. My trailer is about 90% right now but seems a bit spartan compared to the AVIONS I have seen. The only down side is an AVION probably weighs about a ton more than the same length Airstream although that may not be true of the newer Airstreams that have gotten alot more portly of late.

Perry

[JimGolden]

They actually work out pretty closely. At least doing an apples to apples comparison for my year:

1987 Avion 34W (side bath) weighs 6875 lbs dry. Gross is 9500lbs.

1987 Airstream 34 Limited (side bath) weighs 7500 lbs dry. Not sure what the Airstream's gross weight is.

http://www.airstream.com/files/libra...c5c1005fbf.pdf

http://www.silveravion.com/downloads...Brochurer1.pdf

For some reason I don't see the 34X in this brochure. I have the one with my trailer and it's slightly heavier because the bathroom is bigger. I forget the dry weight, but my gross is 9600lbs (I do remember that much).

I think my wife loads it to 12,000!

[slowmover]

My 35' '90 SS scaled dry in the same range; 6,800#. 9k GVWR. I think these manufacturers kept pretty close tabs on each others offerings. Their customers would have (did).

[JimGolden]

What year was the last Silver Streak Slowmover? I thought they went out in the '70's.... looks like they outlived even Avion.

I like all the silver trailers. Streamlines were sure sweet looking. Of course Airstream is the icon that has outlasted them all. Silver Streak is a sweet ride. And I'm pretty happy with my Avion, though I wish I could polish her up like a mirror.

I'd still like to buy two 31' Excellas, cut the back 2/3 off one and the front 2/3 off another, set it on a custom frame, install mutliple slideouts, and build:

MONSTREAM!

Of course, it would be easier to just built a fully custom 40 footer from scratch, but how cool would Monstream be!!

[slowmover]

The original owners sold out to Rolf Zuschlag in about 1985 (a former A/S exec brought to Silver Streak ca. 1978). The resulting SILVER STAR (corporation, I think) re-designed the trailer pretty thoroughly. Production through about 1995, doors closed in 1997 after a few years of mainly custom builds.

The "classic" era was about 1965 - 1984 for the gold anodized trim and wrap around front windows. Maybe 3,500 built. Maybe 2,500 remaining from that era.
Production was never higher than [6] per week.

The 1990 Sterling I have is a bit of an AVION clone. (The A/S squarestream is similar, as well). Rivets are down to a minimum inside & out, and the roof now has seams to seal like AVION. The bellypan is a compostite material (but looks easy to remove/replace, etc). Small differences all over.

The sidewall radius is down to the aero minimum of 12-degrees. This TT is gigantic, IMO, with squared walls, etc, compared to our previous 34'.

Still on a tandem leaf spring axle set though. The final years saw torsion flex (finally), high on my list for an upgrade. There was even a slide-out tridem or two bullt right at the end.

.

[M2HB]

I have the same style Avion 34' trailer that Jim has, except mine is a 1988 model. It has the Dexter independant leaf spring axles and it tows like a dream. Even though I don't use the trailer anymore, I won't sell it. You never know when I will want to use it again. The only bad thing is that the silver Avion is no longer made.