2017 Basecamp Issues

[Gail Miller]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

The location of the fridge venting behind the propane cover is totally an Airstream problem IMO and not Dometic's (unless they agreed in advance that this location would work).

If anything, this bizarre and devious location is probably actually hotter than the ambient temperature outsied when camping, especially when you dump hot exhaust air into a limited physical space!

A child could have told the AS design engineers that this was going to be a problem.


Really . . .

One might wonder if things would be better to take the LP cover off, but what did AS say its significance was??? Shield fumes? Someone commented on that.

[Gail Miller]

Originally Posted by switz

This was the cooling fan fix for our 23D which had a single fan that was totally useless.

This conversion forced the air to come in the bottom vent and cross the cooling fins of the original Dometic unit. Now the DanFoss compressor has it's own radiator and we are just pulling the hot air out of the space.

Airstream has to get more than adequate air movement across the cooling coils of the refrigerator in order for it to work properly.

So the fans are added to inside the grill, from the outside? Thus not having to pull the refrigerator out to install them??

[switz]

Panel was fabricated and then installed from inside the 23D. Removal of the fridge was not a major problem. We also used the space between the fridge and the wall for the solar power cables coming from the roof and the power isolation switch for the solar panels along with a custom two pole outlet for the Vivair tire pump.

There should be an air inlet near the base of the backside of the fridge space and the existing single fan in an upper exhaust opening. For testing purposes, cut some heavy cardboard and tape it in place with the cutout for the single fan edges tapped to the cardboard for an air seal along with the edges of the cardboard to the exhaust opening. This inexpensive non-permanent installation would verify if a positive air flow makes the difference in cooling the food section.

If this helps with the problem, then a sheet metal shop for ductwork can help layout and cut a permanent solution that could possibly be installed externally.

It may well be that Dometic was not a partner in designing this fridge for this specific installation. Thus Airstream is floundering on a solution as they historically are not too clever on fixing their design mistakes. They have a history of ignoring issues that will cost them money to fix such as the ceiling registers falling out in the early "ducted" models. The obvious problem was the hole for was a few thousands of an inch too large in diameter. One current trailer model still has the same frame issue, per the threads posted, here for years.

Thus my comment that the Basecamp needed another year of gestation. Testing in the SouthWest in the summer when it is extremely hot would have revealed this refrigerator cooling problem. This area of our country has some of the most scenic camp sites and the Basecamp would be very logically taken to these sites in the summer.

[Gail Miller]

I turned my refrigerator one this morning, on shore power. At noon the freezer was 10 degrees, inside refrigerator was 70 degrees. I put a fan on top of the LP gas cover, directed down at the vent. This cooled the outside front of the camper and maybe dropped the temp in the refrigerator by 2 degrees at 1:30 p.m. I cracked open the freezer door with a piece of bubble wrap, which, at 3:00 p.m. made the freezer 30 degrees and the refrigerator dropped to 68 degrees. It just doesn't cool!

[Gail Miller]

Originally Posted by Bborzell

This should not be this complicated, but while our fridge cools to 38-40F on AC, it can't get above 56 on propane.

Airstream says that there have been a "few" such complaints and that dealers have created "fixes" such as adding fans. There is not a service bulletin at this point and my local dealer is unaware of the issue.

AS customer service rep suggested that this can be an issue when the trailer is parked in higher temperatures. I see it as a design flaw.

I am now awaiting a call from AS to get me details on the "fix". My dealer is telling me that they are three weeks out, but that they woukd try to work it in before we leave for a 6,000 mile cross country trip in a bit over two weeks.

Reliability has not been Airstream's strong suit with the Basecamp.

Oh, I crawled under the trailer up near the propane hoses/tubing and discovered a vent that had pulled away from the bottom of the trailer. Two of the four sheet metal screws had pulled out. I suggest folks look at theirs.

I looked at that vent on mine today and two of my screws look back off, not flush with the vent cover. I'll check it further. Thanks for mentioning this.

[Gail Miller]

I will call AS tomorrow and complain about the refrigerator as that seems to be the only way they will begin to address something.

[switz]

Since Airstream has authorized some folks to be dealers in the SouthWest, they have boxed themselves into the situation of: Is the Basecamp design appropriate in all of its manifestations and parts for sale "anywhere" in the US?

No one has mentioned a disclaimer in either the sales literature (in all forms) or the owners manual that the unit is to be used only during cooler weather. Thus they have to get the Basecamp (along with the other models with refrigerator cooling problems like all units without a cooling chimney) to work under all weather conditions and at any altitude accessible by driving.

The folks posting here on the forums with their ideas are doing the research Airstream should have done to make the product fit for the purpose described in the literature and that is camping anywhere at any time including extremely hot weather.

[4streams]

Since most Basecampers are new to camping, refrigeration is one of the more complicated issues on your trailer and not always well understood.

The link below is to Norcold's venting guidelines for gas/elec. refrigerators. Explains the whole process in plain English and is a good read and will go a long way to answering questions.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/newr...reply&t=162632

[4streams]

Originally Posted by switz

Since Airstream has authorized some folks to be dealers in the SouthWest, they have boxed themselves into the situation of: Is the Basecamp design appropriate in all of its manifestations and parts for sale "anywhere" in the US?

No one has mentioned a disclaimer in either the sales literature (in all forms) or the owners manual that the unit is to be used only during cooler weather. Thus they have to get the Basecamp (along with the other models with refrigerator cooling problems like all units without a cooling chimney) to work under all weather conditions and at any altitude accessible by driving.

The folks posting here on the forums with their ideas are doing the research Airstream should have done to make the product fit for the purpose described in the literature and that is camping anywhere at any time including extremely hot weather.

I recall from your posts that you replaced your refrigerator. Was the replacement electric or gas/electric?

[JuniperRoad]

Gail, the performance of our fridge is nearly identical to yours. We removed the black tank cover and saw no improvement in fridge temps. Then I even removed the vent from the AS body, exposing the fan and the flame shroud -- also no improvement in fridge temps. All of this was done while parking in our driveway, and tested on both shore power and propane.

The good news is that we headed to the mountains for a few days (prepared with a cooler and ice) and the fridge worked perfectly for four days, entirely on propane. In fact, several times it was actually TOO COLD. The ambient temps were lower by about 10 degrees, but the real difference is that the air was more humid. We live in the high desert and it's very dry at our house (and dealership) where we documented the problem. My best guess is that this problem is also related to the relative humidity in the air.

I'll post our temp chart (much as you did) in a few days. Your information has been very helpful, thank you. I'll also call Airstream to report.

thanks

[4streams]

In case I botched the link just Google:
THETFORD VENTILATION GUIDELINES FOR GAS/ELECTRIC REFRIGERATORS

Touches on all the venting perimeters. Will shed some light on the logic behind Airstream's engineering and their fixes for the problem too.

[Gail Miller]

Originally Posted by JuniperRoad

Gail, the performance of our fridge is nearly identical to yours. We removed the black tank cover and saw no improvement in fridge temps. Then I even removed the vent from the AS body, exposing the fan and the flame shroud -- also no improvement in fridge temps. All of this was done while parking in our driveway, and tested on both shore power and propane.

The good news is that we headed to the mountains for a few days (prepared with a cooler and ice) and the fridge worked perfectly for four days, entirely on propane. In fact, several times it was actually TOO COLD. The ambient temps were lower by about 10 degrees, but the real difference is that the air was more humid. We live in the high desert and it's very dry at our house (and dealership) where we documented the problem. My best guess is that this problem is also related to the relative humidity in the air.

I'll post our temp chart (much as you did) in a few days. Your information has been very helpful, thank you. I'll also call Airstream to report.

thanks

I don't think humidity is my problem, Arkansas just drips with humidity. Heat index was over 100 degrees when I tested mine, though it's parked in a covered carport with a tall roof, so possibly the fridge would work best with lower ambient temps, which I don't have. High 80's and low 90's now, with high humidity and high dew point. Thank you for your report!! I might have to wait until Fall to test it, if nothing happens on AS's part before then.

[MrKenmore]

Decided to run a fridge temp test. Turned it on Thursday night running on electric. Here are the numbers:

Friday morning 10:46 AM Electric Mode 33.6 degrees. Outside air 66 degrees. Cloudy and rainy. Switched to LP only.

Friday 12:28 PM LP Mode 35.7 degrees. Outside air 68 degrees. Cloudy and rainy.

Friday 4:00 PM LP Mode 49.4 degrees. Outside air 67 degrees. Cloudy and rainy. Switched to electric only as we are taking it out tomorrow.

Not sure if this is a typical LP fridge operation or what. You could certainly notice the heat coming from behind the tank storage through the vents.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by MrKenmore

. . .
Not sure if this is a typical LP fridge operation or what.
. . .

Not at all! Most current AS fridges work fine on LP, especially in this cool weather we are having right now on LI. The Basecamp fridge cooling system appears to have a design defect IMO.

Is there a "thermistor" temp adjustment on the Basecamp fridges? In our FC20, the thermistor is a small plastic device clipped to the cooling fins inside the fridge at the top. Slide the thermistor up for colder. [mnemonic: "North is up and colder."]

Thermistor search results FYI: https://www.google.com/search?q=ther...:airforums.com

Good luck!

Peter

[4streams]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Not at all! Most current AS fridges work fine on LP, especially in this cool weather we are having right now on LI. The Basecamp fridge cooling system appears to have a design defect IMO.

Is there a "thermistor" temp adjustment on the Basecamp fridges? In our FC20, the thermistor is a small plastic device clipped to the cooling fins inside the fridge at the top. Slide the thermistor up for colder. [mnemonic: "North is up and colder."]

Thermistor search results FYI: https://www.google.com/search?q=ther...:airforums.com

Good luck!

Peter

Wow, I've owned four Airstreams in the last 11 years, lived in them for about 4.5 years and also own a Basecamp. There are plenty of times I've been less than thrilled with my gas absorption refrigeration. Even times I've had to trow things out.

Refrigeration is one of the most complicated things going on in your trailer, it will behoove everyone to read the Thetford (Norcold) piece referred to earlier. It pretty much sums up why the Basecamp has more difficulty with efficiency in higher ambient temps than your 20 or my previous 31, 25 and 19. It's not a conspiracy, its not an engineering mistake, it is not little green men from Mars (who I often blame for stealing my beer).

Small refrigerators that wall vent have very close intake and exhaust vents. When ambient temperatures rise there is less difference in the incoming and outgoing air temps. which effects the chimney effect. This reduction in chimney effect decreases efficiency. As Thetford states the fix in this situation is a fan to encourage the chimney effect and that seems to be what Airstream has said to those with the problem (and given varied conditions and usage not everyone will experience the problem).

Another thing that effects it is barometric pressure, which means altitude can effect performance too. In short, there may be more at work than an 80 degree ambient temp in Wrightsville Beach vs. the same temp Park City.

One person on this thread has had the "fan fix". I believe the response was that it worked. It will be interesting to hear the follow up.

So, until some one actually comes up with an actual engineering fault, I'm going to go with the what the actual engineers at Norcold explained. It does make sense.

The real solution might be an optional upgrade to an electric refrigerator if the batteries and solar can handle that. It's a well know fact that gas absorption may use less electricity but that doesn't mean it's the most efficient.

[OTRA15]

Wow indeed.

The outside air temp was 67-68, and the fridge was at 49.4 on propane! This is not complicated . . .

Clearly unacceptable performance IMO. Yes, at much higher campground temperatures in the summer, the AS fridges can falter under challenging conditions, but the new Basecamp has a big problem here, again in my personal opinion, which no theoretical design resource can hide.

And this poor performance does not appear to be unique to MrKenmore, but any means, but to many new Basecamps.

Wally Byam would probably not be happy . . .



PS -- At a minimum Airstream should have field tested the new Basecamp in every challenging condition, like summer heat while camping, and found the obvious problems.

A fleet-wide axle recall right off the bat, because the tires hit the body? Child's play!

Amazing that the Thor shareholders have not raised a ruckus here IMO. Errors like this are expensive to a company's bottom line.

[overlander63]

I just scanned through here, and thought I'd toss in my two cents about the fridge not cooling on propane.
Most of us know the flame is hotter than a heating element, and that is the problem. When you turn on the fire, there isn't sufficient cooling to remove that heat, and it build up to the point it is less efficient as far as transfer. I've noticed the situation is better if the LP cover is not installed, which again points to an air flow issue. We've pulled one of the Basecamps off the lot, and are using it as a test bed to see if we can find a solution.

[4streams]

I talked to Airstream two days ago and they cited the solutions (fans, insulation) and referred me to my dealer. My dealer has added fans, per Airstream, to two Basecamps, and will do a third next week - mine. It appears more people are getting the fan modification (and insulation too) than are reporting on the forum. It would be nice to hear from them to get some actual results.

[JRAir]

Very interesting discussion as our refrigerator also does not cool on propane. We just took a look a the Dometic Installation Instructions and on page 29, Appendix B Minimum Ventilation Heights for side vents (model RM2351), the minimum ventilation height between the bottom of the intake vent and the top of the exhaust vent is 34". We measured less than 24" on our BC. NO wonder that is a venting issue.

[OTRA15]

Is there an air gap between the front of the trailer, and the propane cover as shown here? Looks like a mighty small space IMO. Even with fan assist, moving hot air out of the way quickly is going to be challenging if this end of the trailer is in direct sun on a hot day!

How about a dedicated mini-awning which can deploy to put the front of the trailer in shade? There could be a sun-sensitive switch which triggers this, like the rain sensors on the rooftop fans.



Good luck,

Peter