Wheel Separation and broken lug nuts

[wheel interested]

I have been following Rich Luhr's Tour of America Blog, and he has just had a scarey experience with wheel separation and now has discovered other broken wheel lugs from over torquing. I don't know if anyone else out there has had anyone use an air wrench on their lugs but you might want to be cognizant that this has led to major problems. Thankfully the mishap did not cause injury but did cause damage.

Read the blog entires here

http://www.tour.airstreamlife.com/weblog/

[overlander63]

Carol, over-and under-torquing lugs is a major source of trouble for any vehicle, whether it be Airstream of tow vehicle. Undertorquing can cause the lugs to loosen, and the wheel to fall off. Overtorquing can cause the problem Rich is having, and can also cause distorted wheels, or even warped brake drums or rotors. The warpage can cause a lot of vibration while braking, and besides being uncomfortable for us, can cause flat-spotted tires from brake lockup, resulting in even more vibration, which can lead to more serious damage inside our coaches, like items shaken off walls, etc.
A less serious, but still potentially big problem, at very least an annoyance, is when the wheel is overtorqued, you may not even be able to get the lugs off to change a flat tire.
Most Airstream lugs should be torqued to 110 lb/ft.

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by overlander63

Carol, over-and under-torquing lugs is a major source of trouble for any vehicle, whether it be Airstream of tow vehicle. Undertorquing can cause the lugs to loosen, and the wheel to fall off. Overtorquing can cause the problem Rich is having, and can also cause distorted wheels, or even warped brake drums or rotors. The warpage can cause a lot of vibration while braking, and besides being uncomfortable for us, can cause flat-spotted tires from brake lockup, resulting in even more vibration, which can lead to more serious damage inside our coaches, like items shaken off walls, etc.
A less serious, but still potentially big problem, at very least an annoyance, is when the wheel is overtorqued, you may not even be able to get the lugs off to change a flat tire.
Most Airstream lugs should be torqued to 110 lb/ft.

Terry,

Is that figure for steel wheels, aluminum wheels or does it matter?

Bill

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

Terry,

Is that figure for steel wheels, aluminum wheels or does it matter?

Bill

Bill, there was only one figure for lug torque, there was no special torque for aluminum wheels.

[wheel interested]

I have been carrying the lug wrench but is that sufficient, or should we all be carrying torque wrenches? We check them for torque at home. On the road I rely on our road coverage for wheel change as I have formerly spent some time jumping on wrenches road side without success of budging it. However it would attract enough attention to bring over a volunteer.

I'm thinking the shop sent him out like that and that worries me. People might get a false sense of security when the pros are put on a job. Recent personal experience however has taught me to be more cautious and skeptical, as I was sent out with an improper dual cam installation.

Overlander thanks for the information. I'm wondering if a Hensley masks road feel to the point of not knowing about excessive vibration. ?

[2airishuman]

easy carol......
back away from the caffiene....

have a glass of cab or chard...

the hensley doesn't mask road vibration into the tv
but airstreams do ride smoothly enough
that one might not know a tire was flat or a wheel had been dropped..
rich was lucky to have seen the wheel roll out...
many don't know about flats till a scheduled stop....

i do carry a torque wrench...with the longer handle it helps loosening lugs
and the dial-in gauge allows for precise tighening...with sockets 2 fit the truck and trailer, the whole mess takes up less space than a 4 way lug wrench...

20-60$ from wally world, napa, sears and so on...
get one tomorrow

now go drink some wine!

cheers
2air'

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, Lug nut torque may be different for different years and definately for different wheels. I have alloy wheels and I torque them at 120 lbs per my Airstream owner's manual. My owner's manual states to torque steel wheels at 90 lbs. I also carry a torque wrench and lug nut sockets with me at all times.

Bob

[wheel interested]

Hope there aren't any more puppies at this Wally World
Fruit of the vine here I come.

[nickcrowhurst]

For $12.99 from Harbor Freight, you can have contented lug nuts, secure and snug, happy in the knowledge that their owner cares for them, and will give them a little torque check before each trip.
This is what I use:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...itemnumber=239
Nick.

[dwightdi]

That is only a 3/8 drive wrench, but that is a great price. Too bad they do not have a 2/3 inch drive.

[nickcrowhurst]

Originally Posted by dwightdi

That is only a 3/8 drive wrench

No, it's a 1/2 inch drive when I look at that link, and when I bought the tool. There is a mention in the lower part of the screen that there is a 3/8th drive for even less money. I wouldn't use a 3/8ths drive for lug nuts at 90 ft lbs.
Nick

[overlander63]

The torque figure I quoted was for the older coaches, but was repeated to me be a service center. Looks like the best advice in this case is to check your owner's manual, and if the figures differ from what I was told, be sure to use the figures in the manual.

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by nickcrowhurst

No, it's a 1/2 inch drive when I look at that link, and when I bought the tool. . . . Nick

Interesting regression.

1/2" for $12.99
3/8" for $19.99
1/4" for $28.99

Following that pattern, a 3/4" drive should cost $9.44! Gotta get one!

[Pahaska]

My aluminum wheels (2005) specify 85 foot pounds torque. I carry a torque wrench and deep socket on all trips.

i do carry a torque wrench...with the longer handle it helps loosening lugs

Please do not use your torque wrench for loosening lugnuts. That is no way to treat a precision tool! I carry a 4-way lug wrench. By slipping the pipe that goes with the chain hooks on my hitch over one leg of the 4-way, I have plenty of torque to easily loosen the tightest lug nut.

I don't know if I would trust a cheap torque wrench from Harbor Freight. I have a 1/2" Snap-On, over $200.00 and a 1/2" from Sears about $80.00 that I carry when I travel. Both good wrenches. I'm of the school that you get what you pay for and sometimes less, but cheap tools are cheap tools.

I should also mention that when I changed the steel wheels on my 76 Sovereign for Alcoa wheels the factory recommended that the correct wheel "bolts" ,gave me the part number which I gave to my dealer and he placed the order. They were installed and torqued but when I moved the trailer from my brothers house to mine , I lost a wheel causing damage to the side of the trailer. All the wheel bolts were loose. So anyone who may be thinking of replacing your old steel wheels with newer aluminum rims be aware that you have to replace the wheel bolts with screw in studs and tapered acorn nuts. The factory made good somewhat by sending some sheet aluminum and wheel well trim but that runaway tire could have caused an oncomnig car and driver serious damage based on their faulty information.

[2airishuman]

so i guess i should stop driving tent stakes with my torque wrench too

yes for the newer trailers that have alcoa wheels the recommendation is 85...too much tighter can damage the alum wheels...next would be the lug bolts like rich experienced...

sure it would be better to use a breaker bar, like the 'gorilla bar' for loosening. but again this depends on how tight they are to begin with...are you 'breaking' one loose or just untighening...here's a nifty gadget that might solve this issue for carol or theres with tight nuts...
http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/ezlugluwrwi3.html


the flexrod/strain gauge type t wrenches are single purpose tools. many dial-a-torque wrenches do operate both directions and internally ratchet 2 ways...some say not to use for loosening, mine doesn't make that distinction and has a lifetime warranty anyway...
frequent use of any torque wrench may affect accuracy....
did ya loose the gauge to zero between uses,
are the nuts rounding a little?
how clean/dirty/lubed are the threads?
and so on...

price does matter but lets not get too anal about this issue...
it's lug nuts folks, not carbon fiber....
get em close and check em regularly.
more often after any wheel removal...

the one i use has 2-4% error as i recall. so i'm going for 82-88 sort of...

perhaps someday the nuts will have built in torque sensors and limiters...or will be made from materials that constrict to the proper set via magnet or electric impulse?....that would be cool eh?

i wonder if rich's lug were tightened to 105-110? he's got the newer alloy non alcoa wheels, aren't are 85-90 too? perhaps several were over tightened which stressed the bolts and damaged the rim...

i don't read blogs usually but his reflection on what to do after disaster stikes is worth reading....not make things worse, step back and reevaluate, not respond to negative triggers...and so on...

and don't forget.....
all tools are hammers except chisels
which are screwdrivers.....

cheers all
2air'

[AZstreamin]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

yes for the newer trailers that have alcoa wheels the recommendation is 85...too much tighter can damage the alum wheels...next would be the lug bolts like rich experienced...

This thread got my attention for several reasons.... 1. My AS is still in the shop doing warranty work..and they'll be pulling all four off so it got me thinking I should know this info.... and 2. I have the exact same AS as Rich and his family. So I checked the ol' manual because I have conflicting feedback from several places as to how much is too much or to little torque? I've never been one to worry about nuts and how much too torque...

It says
WARNING it is also important to periodically check on the tightness of lug nuts. They should be tightened to a torque of 110-120 ft. pounds on forged aluminum wheels and 90-95 ft. lbs on steel wheels Care should be taken at all times when handling the forged aluminum wheel because of possible damage to its appearance.

Now I believe my wheels are aluminum. Is that what would come with the Safari LS package? It seems hard to believe that some of the Aluminum wheels on recent models would be 85lbs torque and yet others alum wheels 120lbs.. That’s a big difference and enough to get someone in trouble. I would almost guarantee most shops would not know whos got 85ers and whos got 120ers.. they just let the airgun rip..

[wheel interested]

and don't forget.....
all tools are hammers except chisels
which are screwdrivers.....

You are too funny. Or is that the cab that makes me laugh so?

Thanks for for the fancy torque 32 to 1 wrench link, interesting. Perhaps I should do some trials. I used to change tires for practice at home, but those were the Towlight, Explorer days. Now I wonder if I could even have the heft to move the wheels. (WARNING!!!! NEVER ALLOW YOURSELF TO BECOME AN OLD WOMAN!!!)

John I have the 4 way wrench so that tip about the gold bar and untightening is perfect and appreciated.

I thank you all for your input and information.

Also we may just carry the good torque wrench that we kept at home and some extra parts. I also need to doublecheck what rating "we" were following...I know the one AS owners manual had a separate slip of paper that said disregard the books number and use this number instead. Hmmmm. Guess I will head out to have a look.

Next quest for knowledge...brake controllers and disc brakes.

[scottanlily]

hello everyone,

I carefully read over the blog and the photos with scrutiny ,being an auto
repair /truck/trailer repairman I am really interested in this one .If you look at the photo in the blog of the wheel studs ,notice that they are blueish to brown at about the seated area of the wheel and lug nut,indicating high
heating of the stud ,as in extremely hot ,all of them show this.Also the stud
standing up shows the break area as having different coloring ,across the center is a thin strip ,sortof that is lighter and looks like a newer fracture
than the rest of the stud .The heat discoloration is definately troubling.
I deal with wheels,brakes ,studs all the time and never see wheel studs like
those .Over tightening with an impact wrench is as we know WRONG ,easily
done as alot of shops have 160 psi at the gun .I also must question 110 ft
lbs of torque ,I torque fasteners all the time and thats tight ! I see that
anothers coach had the wheels come off ,after installing aluminum wheels.
This needs to be checked out ,somthing is not right. I cannot tell by the blog
if any new studs that were installed broke off either ,its a little unclear ,It
sounds like they all were breaking off (old studs ?) I believe there is more
going on with this troubling scenerio .The last note is that it appears that
studs started breaking off after the disc brakes were installed as it reads.
Hense my wondering if any new studs have broke off .Well the only time I
see studs broken off is if the wheel is loose ,and as it flales around ,snaps the studs off .That type of break or fracture of that stud in the photo needs
further scrutiny .A bad bad situation ,hopefully some more info can be picked
up in this blog and posted here.

Scott